"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

[marks]

My Point on this is it is one thing to mentally acknowledge assurance of salvation and another thing to "KNOW" that assurance by the one who promised it.... One is mental the other relational that requires that experience of hearing from Him.

This is still a matter of trusting God, believing what He says.

It's been well put, I think, it's one thing to believe IN God, but another to BELIEVE God. We can believe in God but not believe what He says.

It sounds like in your case, you were not really able to believe the Words of Scripture until God used experience to show you their truth.

I exort each of us to accept as truth the Word of God, and to live our lives accordingly.

Maybe an example . . . one man reads, don't steal, and doesn't steal, another man reads, don't steal, but only learns to not steal after getting beat up or arrested or whatever, for the 20th time.

You don't have to get arrested to know not to steal, you can receive that from God's Word, trusting.

You don't have to nearly starve before you will trust God for your provision. You can read His Word and believe it, and if you don't, God has all sorts of experiences that can help you learn to trust.

But the issue is always trust, believing God.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Can you tell me more?

Who we were, who will will be, not necessarily in the sense of individuals, but overall?

Much love!

ah, hmm
do you remember when you looked in a mirror and did not recognize your “self?” when you were a little child, iow? “marks” is a completely made up character, who as im sure you are aware would not be recognized by any written description provided by marks himself; no one you know knows this “marks” guy, iow.

And near as i can tell who he will be depends upon how he identifies “self” at any moment in the future; do we choose to ID with our soul, “marks,” or with the spirit? Which is going to predicate some pretty huge variances in behavior, as the world will not very well tolerate someone acting from spirit i guess

but a good reflection of reality there might be in our way of immortalizing the soul, too, as a separate entity, rather than as our current “lives?” Iow “eternal soul” the definition changes, depending upon how one defines those terms?

 

[bbyrd009]

I Am saying it is all part of trusting in God, what you are saying is true, but there is more there. It is not just mentally knowing the rope will hold you but actually relying on that rope to hold you as you ascend a cliff. Until you ascend the cliff and rely on that rope to hold you then and only then will you be assured of that fact.

so, a guy is climbing a cliff, roped in, almost to the top, and the rope breaks!
he is in free-fall!
“OMG, please save me!” he cries
about ten feet down he lands butt first into a horizontal trunk of a junpier tree, literally stopping his fall
guy looks up to heaven and says “nevermind”

 

[marks]

but there is more there. It is not just mentally knowing the rope will hold you but actually relying on that rope to hold you as you ascend a cliff. Until you ascend the cliff and rely on that rope to hold you then and only then will you be assured of that fact.

Do you have to walk on a floor before you believe it will support you?

Years ago I rode motorcycles. I had this pretty little Honda 350. I crashed it, and broke the frame. I looked up in the phone book, and found someone who advertised welding repairs, called them, and rode my little bike over there. The man met me outside with his welding setup. We talked a few minutes, he told me he normally wouldn't do this kind of repair because of the fire hazard, but said he thought it would be fine. I asked him, is this OK? Will it hold? He looked me in the eye and said "it will hold.". And I could see, this guy knows what he's saying. Great! My bike will be OK! And he was only charging $15! (that's how long ago this was)

So I'm wandering around a bit, while he does his thing, and I walk up to the big open door of the warehouse. I couldn't see inside before.

There were 2, no, 3, in various stages of construction, jet engine dragsters. There was a Nascar shop nearby, some machine shops, it was that kind of a place. 3 massive cars, welded tubular steel construction, just like my little motocycle. I saw the reason for his confidence. Here in front of me, towering over my head. Full sized jet aircraft engines. Yes, that weld would hold my little 350CC bike together!

Do you assume others are all just standing on the starting line??

Much love!

 

[marks]

ah, hmm
do you remember when you looked in a mirror and did not recognize your “self?” when you were a little child, iow? “marks” is a completely made up character, who as im sure you are aware would not be recognized by any written description provided by marks himself; no one you know knows this “marks” guy, iow.

And near as i can tell who he will be depends upon how he identifies “self” at any moment in the future; do we choose to ID with our soul, “marks,” or with the spirit? Which is going to predicate some pretty huge variances in behavior, as the world will not very well tolerate someone acting from spirit i guess

but a good reflection of reality there might be in our way of immortalizing the soul, too, as a separate entity, rather than as our current “lives?” Iow “eternal soul” the definition changes, depending upon how one defines those terms?

I guess that's what I'm wondering is how you define those terms.

tbh at times it sounds like you are describing reincarnation, at times it seems you are describing Nirvana, at times it seems you are advocating a Christ consciousness as achieved by Jesus. It's really hard for me to follow your thought sometimes.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I Am saying it is all part of trusting in God, what you are saying is true, but there is more there. It is not just mentally knowing the rope will hold you but actually relying on that rope to hold you as you ascend a cliff. Until you ascend the cliff and rely on that rope to hold you then and only then will you be assured of that fact.

so, a guy is climbing a cliff, roped in, almost to the top, and the rope breaks!
he is in free-fall!
“OMG, please save me!” he cries
about ten feet down he lands butt first into a horizontal trunk of a junpier tree, literally stopping his fall
guy looks up to heaven and says “nevermind”

"Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught.
And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.
And when they had this done, they enclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake." Luke 5:4-6

"Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken." John 21:10-11

What was the difference? Why did the net break the first time but not the second?

 

[marks]

man, could be, or ive seen the elsewhere, the witness, be just a phrase or even a word (“heard”) buried in a different passage, in a different context even, a la you and your sons will be here with me ostensibly about saul getting advice from samuel about a “coming battle”

OK, I think understand, and I appreciate your patience and answering my questions!

Much love!

 

[marks]

"Now when he had left speaking, he said unto Simon, Launch out into the deep, and let down your nets for a draught.
And Simon answering said unto him, Master, we have toiled all the night, and have taken nothing: nevertheless at thy word I will let down the net.
And when they had this done, they enclosed a great multitude of fishes: and their net brake." Luke 5:4-6

"Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.
Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken." John 21:10-11

What was the difference? Why did the net break the first time but not the second?

Perhaps the first time was intended to overwhelm their sensibilities?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Perhaps the first time was intended to overwhelm their sensibilities?

Much love!

Consider that Jesus had not died and risen from the dead in the Luke event, whereas in the John event he had risen from the dead!

 

[marks]

Until you ascend the cliff and rely on that rope to hold you then and only then will you be assured of that fact.

I've heard that when you do reach the top of that cliff, that's where you will find the Baptists.

:)

 

[marks]

Consider that Jesus had not died and risen from the dead in the Luke event, whereas in the John event he had risen from the dead!

And in the first instance, they didn't have the same confidence in obeying as they seemed to in the second. God still gave the catch, but the nets didn't break when they just did what Jesus said.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

And in the first instance, they didn't have the same confidence in obeying as they seemed to in the second. God still gave the catch, but the nets didn't break when they just did what Jesus said.

Much love!

Also consider what difference the Holy Spirit makes to us and/or being born again or born from above make to us!

 

[theefaith]

well the spirit goes back to God, Who gave it right
but for that i would contemplate new name, since i guess most believers anticipate an afterlife with them”selves” literally in it? Like “I, John Doe, am going to heaven after i have died?” when ol John is a completely…fabricated construct, invented by him, only he just forgot lol

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

[theefaith]

may i suggest redefining “faith” so as to be a little more practical, less religious?

less religious? What’s wrong with religion?

 

[marks]

Until you ascend the cliff and rely on that rope to hold you then and only then will you be assured of that fact.

Faith, and not by sight is opposite this.

Faith is that assurance before you even set out.

We do though, I think, sometimes obey out of a weak faith. Lord, I believe, help my unbelief! We start to climb that cliff, even though we don't feel that assurance, and then, after a bit, we start to feel better.

There's that level, but even in this partial disbelief, it's still obeying, and trusting, if only tentative.

But the full assurance of faith in no wise requires seeing the outworking of that faith first.

Jesus is our first and finest example of faith, and He went trusting into His death. He'd never climbed that cliff before. But the cliff notes were, His Father would bring Him through. Into Your hands I commit My Spirit.

Can we commit our spirits into His hands even before we've laid eyes on that rope, or tugged and felt it's strength? Wouldn't that be looking at things we see?

The real is what we don't see. Whether we perceive we succeed or perceive we fail, our perceptions don't matter. Failure IS one of the pathways to growth, but can we learn to see that God is faithful to us all the time? No matter what things look like?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Also consider what difference the Holy Spirit makes to us and/or being born again or born from above make to us!

Our faith in Jesus grows stronger in His Spirit, does it not?

:)

 

[amadeus]

Our faith in Jesus grows stronger in His Spirit, does it not?

:)

In the first instance, the price had not yet been paid by Jesus. In the second instance, the price had been paid. Carnal men did not even possess a net strong enough to contain the multitude of fishes Jesus brought to them. It was not yet possible for them. But... after Jesus had paid the price them the men's net caught 153 fish (or was it men?).

There is something more in that, I believe. Perhaps someone else reading this will see it and be able to amplify..?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

not sure what you mean by “is foreign,” but

I meant ‘is foreign’ as something not commonly heard. For instance how even your post are sometimes received as ‘foreign’ to what is commonly posted. I don’t know if that is the right way to use the word but that is how I meant it there in ‘I will eat no meat if it causes my brother to offend’. It has been one of those verses that causes questions like; why not correct? why not set straight? why not debate? why not use a hammer? is it coddling or pacifying someone as if you are in total agreement with them in doing as they do and as they believe…to not offend? I’m not saying those are good questions but (at least in my opinion) so commonly is the use of a hammer that what Paul does there towards ‘a weak brother whom Christ died for’ is foreign to me.

fwiw i would interpret Now concerning things sacrificed to idols as more like a thing we do mentally, “knowledge” itself likely being involved in the operation, and not some literal sacrificing of literal meat to a literal idol. Imo it is really a quite banal thing that we all do in the “pursuit of knowledge,” something along the lines of “learning just enough to be dangerous” kinda thing maybe

what of: His people perish for the lack of knowledge?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

Another thought on “Milk” is doctrine, “Meat” is…?

Doctrine? Which ‘whether it be of God’ or ‘whether I speak of myself’ John 7:16-18
John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. [13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak…


“Milk” is doctrine …whose?

 

[marks]

But... after Jesus had paid the price them the men's net caught 153 fish (or was it men?).

Well, they ate some of them for breakfast . . .

;)