"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,482
1,915
113
56
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
that’s not my question

you just do not like my answer....

Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (Ephesians 4:13-15)
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
He opened the Door, but we must walk through it. Provision has been made for that as well, has it not? Is it a 'come as you are' party or are there some requirements for us meet so as to not be stopped and perhaps even cast out into outer darkness?
so, we had more than one guy here at one time, counseling “dont pick up your cross,” and in this context it maybe becomes understandable why someone engaged in a jesus cult would hold the pov, i guess?
 
  • Like
Reactions: amadeus

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,482
1,915
113
56
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As we go through our lives, we increase in the outworking of our faith, and in self control,

Good comment in general the only thing i would change is that instead of "Self control" i would put "God control"....

Sometimes this renewing may seem to have "watershed moments", but, like a "mountaintop experience", these are very subjective to the person, and oftentimes, I think, have a lot more behind them than simply some "sudden realization", or "moment of brokenness". I don't consider those impossible, of course not! Only that a "moment of brokenness" is often, I think, preceded by a great deal of preparation, and more represents leaping the next hurdle as we run our race.

Again, this is not just a renewing of the mind, but a renewing of our whole focus and perspective from "Me" to Him.... It is not just mental but spiritual and surrender of our will. Yes it is gradual leading up to the moment but ultimately that moment requires a leap of faith on our part. from us as the pilot to God as the pilot, if anything it is a loss of self control, not in the "bad senses" of going crazy in sins of the flesh, but in the good sense of learning to trust in God fully.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
This idea that there are hidden meanings that are contrary to surface meanings, I only see that leading into error.
well, as a for instance the Bible presents a lot of evidence for an “afterlife,” right, but also assures us that There is only One Immortal, and It all but directly states, in several clever ways, that Jesus might be “returning” even though I will never leave you nor forsake you, Return to Me and I will return to you…

iron sharpens iron
is Quoted as a good thing usually, right, we all initially breeze over the part about sharpening our friends countenance, bc “sharpening” has just been set up as being “good” by the author im unsure of at the moment but id bet half of my kingdom on Paul there lol.

Im sure there are many other examples, arsenokoitai which is something i could truly not care less about is being obviously put before me right now, might serve as a good example of how “hidden meaning that are contrary to surface meanings” might be at least sometimes more like “spiritual meanings should be derived from the literal meanings,” although i guess this is kinda a different subject
How does eternal life negate the idea of the kingdom within you? That's something else I don't understand how you mean this.

Much love!
well, i mean where your treasure is, there your heart will be too right?
how can you have it both ways?

same arg @ “Jesus, returning” really; if Jesus is “returning” then by def that one is not in the body of Christ, not saying that i am either, understand
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
23,232
33,206
113
81
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
so, we had more than one guy here at one time, counseling “dont pick up your cross,” and in this context it maybe becomes understandable why someone engaged in a jesus cult would hold the pov, i guess?
Well I hold the view that God through His Son and the Holy Spirit opened up the Way that had been closed when Adam and Eve were put outside of Eden. Now His Son also says this:

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." Matt 10:38

And also...

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matt 16:24

Our question perhaps should be, What is my cross? How should I handle it?

See my next post for a copy of a little outline I have had since 2003. It may be helpful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, but somehow that doesn't mean Jesus to you.
fwiw i will say that i sure never intended for that to happen, either.
Who is Christ?
my guess for today is “the Spirit manifested by Jesus, by the grace of Yah” but i would concentrate more on the “Jesus” definition maybe, as Christ, being Word, is going to be a little harder to define right, or lets say that comes later imo
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,355
113
64
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well I hold the view that God through His Son and the Holy Spirit opened up the Way that had been closed when Adam and Eve were put outside of Eden. Now His Son also says this:

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." Matt 10:38

And also...

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." Matt 16:24

Our question perhaps should be, What is my cross? How should I handle it?

See my next post for a copy of a little outline I have had since 2003. It may be helpful.

mary found the favor of our salvation lost by Adam and Eve Lk 1:30

she is the mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

phil 1:29 yes carry cross
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
10,578
8,426
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
i would guess that in typical Bible fashion, this is a use of “full age” in the opposite, beneficial sense, which im not sure what thread im on here at the moment, but is even done with “meat”


1 Corinthians 14:20: Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.

1 Corinthians 8:1: Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.

that is all I’m suggesting is what Paul did there in ‘I will eat no meat if it causes my brother to offend.’ Is foreign? ‘Putting into practice’ Love edifies? Just an opinion but for me @Ziggy gave the most memorable post in all of 13 pages


I think meat means putting what you've learned into practice.
Why be taught a skill if your not going to use it?
And there are a lot of skills to learn.
Patience, long-suffering, kindness.. to name a couple..


Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Question about Adam and Eve eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. “And their eyes were opened”, but if the Lord does not see as man sees …just because their eyes were ‘opened ‘ how did they see? ‘Outward appearances’? we are naked? 2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Perception?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggy

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,355
113
64
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Don’t forget Christian meditation on the passion and death of Christ also

agony in the garden:

scourging at the pillar:

crowning with thorns:

Jesus carrying the cross:

Jesus crucified, dies on the cross:

special thoughts on his suffering, holy face, precious blood and holy wounds!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,355
113
64
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1 Corinthians 14:20: Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.

1 Corinthians 8:1: Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.

that is all I’m suggesting is what Paul did there in ‘I will eat no meat if it causes my brother to offend.’ Is foreign? ‘Putting into practice’ Love edifies? Just an opinion but for me @Ziggy gave the most memorable post in all of 13 pages





Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Question about Adam and Eve eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. “And their eyes were opened”, but if the Lord does not see as man sees …just because their eyes were ‘opened ‘ how did they see? ‘Outward appearances’? we are naked? 2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Perception?

And we must put on Christ and die with Christ in baptism
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,820
24,130
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My point in this OP is that meat is when we come to acknowledge our lack of understanding the infinite immortal God and then we can learn to digest the meat as we are fed by the Spirit of Truth, the manna from heaven. This is the "experience" that leads us to stop the divisions caused by the doctrines of men which come from the man's understanding and we come to know "Him who is from the beginning". It is a point of brokenness and loss of faith in our own understanding that he then can teach us.
Brother, isn't this a daily event for you? Doesn't this happen ever few minutes? Do you end each day closer to Jesus? That's my one concern in life, and if it's not yours, I highly recommend it.

The one who seeks, finds.

And I think that if you are seeking Jesus instead of world peace, you've have more of Jesus, and more to contribute to world peace.

That's why I call this the milk. Ending division is bringing in reconciliation, bringing in reconciliation is what salvation is all about. We accept by faith our salvation, that we are reconciled, and now everything is OK, and the pride and envy end. If you are still living in pride and envy, it's because you haven't make that choice to trust that Jesus loves you and cares for you.

We have two sets of thoughts.

One set is, "Oh I wish he wasn't getting all the attention!" That's envy, of course, the sister to pride, "I should be getting the attention."

The other set is, "How do I keep from doing something wrong here?" which is humility, sister to obedience, "How do I do something good?"

We need to watch ourselves, to see which sort is rising up in our minds, in our hearts, what feelings are coming. Are we feeling impatient, frustrated? Alarmed? Some people feel fear when their teaching is questioned. Some become defensive, and some lash out. Some become masters of obfuscation as they build their walls over the courses of years, holding onto doctrines they hope are right but cannot explain or defend.

You know there are all sorts of ways the flesh creeps in, but I suggest that we learn to take a very rigid line on our thoughts and feelings, and learn to accept that all those thoughts and feelings that aren't part of Love, and Joy, and Peace, and Faithfulness, and all the rest of the Spirit's fruit, that these truly are not the Spirit of God, and that includes our trust in our full reconciliation to God.

I myself have come to conclude this is the heart, my opinion here, I've concluded that a failure to understand and trust in our reconciliation to God is a primary reason for Christians not living the life they dream to live as a Christian. I've concluded that a failure to understand and trust in our reconciliation to God leads Christians into legalisting thinking, that we have to continue to "buy" our acceptance by God, by "continuing to grow", or it even gets as messed up as people determining inside themself to appear as spiritual and holy as possible because "that's what I'm supposed to look like".

When we truly living unto God, which we will only do on the foundation of Jesus having reconciled us, and living according to that truth, when we are truly living this, that's when we by love serve one another, as an expression of our faith. We have all we need from God, so we turn ourselves outward giving to others.

Learning that we have all we need from God, this is the milk, and turning ourselves to others, this is the meat. The Word of God in our lives to bring us into "reconciled by faith in Jesus" is the milk, and learning about these things. The Word of God in our lives to bring us into "serving others in love" is the meat, and learning about these things.

Here's the thing. I believe the Bible teaches a "new man", which already exists, which is patterned after God, created righteous, and holy. A new and righteous man who is made holy for holy things to come through. I'm still learning the fulness of that phrase.

And as our minds are renewed to this new way of life, this is the living of the life of Christ, Who is already alive in His people. Not partly alive in Christ, we are fully alive in Christ, and our lives could be fully transformed to be like His if we would fully trust in Him to make it so in us. No. Not that we trust Him to make it so, more,

We trust that His IS making it so. That Jesus IS right now living His live in me, and we can trust that is true IF IF IF we will trust that we are reconciled to Him. Really, fully reconciled.

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
To see if I understand your thought here, the idea is that these honest and God seeking people did the best they could, and wrote out of their best efforts to know God, and make Him known, and did that using the pagan ideas of the day. God allowed, or used, or promoted that kind of writing to lead astray those who were just seeking advantage for themselves, while hiding within something very different from the crude pagan-styled descriptions of God.

Am I on the right track here?
my guess would be yes
and the reasoning is even fairly logical, imo, it puts a check on narcissists’ (convinced that they might become immortal after death) behavior, it also puts a mark on them that they may be easily identified, while they (me) are also able to avail themselves of a literal reading of Scripture, which i dunno about others but i clung to really tightly for a long time, mostly i guess out of a fear of having to start completely over, completely ignorant, but it doesnt work like that as i still had the passages installed in memory, and “converting” comes as it comes now, i dont even look for that or consciously try to do it, but anyway to your point Apollos waters, The virgin will be with child, et al, these would have had completely different meanings to them imo

i think we should accept that we are as Christians pretty much all in the Cult of Sol, i am Cult of Sol, gotta be from somewhere right
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,820
24,130
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Again, this is not just a renewing of the mind, but a renewing of our whole focus and perspective from "Me" to Him....
You are saying the same thing, the only difference is that I'm using the words the Bible uses. I've learned to order my thoughts according to the very words of Scripture, so those are the words I use.

Focus . . . how you are looking at something . . . perspective . . . how you are thinking of something . . . or did you mean something different?

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
1 Corinthians 8:1: Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.

that is all I’m suggesting is what Paul did there in ‘I will eat no meat if it causes my brother to offend.’ Is foreign?
not sure what you mean by “is foreign,” but fwiw i would interpret Now concerning things sacrificed to idols as more like a thing we do mentally, “knowledge” itself likely being involved in the operation, and not some literal sacrificing of literal meat to a literal idol. Imo it is really a quite banal thing that we all do in the “pursuit of knowledge,” something along the lines of “learning just enough to be dangerous” kinda thing maybe
Question about Adam and Eve eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. “And their eyes were opened”, but if the Lord does not see as man sees …just because their eyes were ‘opened ‘ how did they see? ‘Outward appearances’?
that would be my guess there, ya
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,820
24,130
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I appreciate your clarity on these things!

i think we should accept that we are as Christians pretty much all in the Cult of Sol, i am Cult of Sol, gotta be from somewhere right

Is this to say that you don't see yourself progressed from the Cult of Sol manifestations in the Bible? That sounds off, so I'm wondering.

When you convert the Scriptures, convert to what? What is the guide, or means? How can you know if you are taking metaphical statements that seem plain statements and interpreting them, or if you are taking plain statements, and making them metaphorical, and thereby emptying them of their intended meaning?

If we use language genre as a guide, and say, the Bible speaks to us in Language, then we have that as the guide.

Your thought seems to be that if Semiramis said, I did not have sex with that man! that this means when the prophet said, The virgin shall be with child, that this would have of course been understood as the same pagan idea? And therefore should not be accepted as the straightforward statement?

My understanding is that the prophecy didn't specify what we mean by "virgin" until being translated into the LXX, so that's interesting.

But that aside, do you understand what I'm asking?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
36,820
24,130
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
well, as a for instance the Bible presents a lot of evidence for an “afterlife,” right, but also assures us that There is only One Immortal, and It all but directly states, in several clever ways, that Jesus might be “returning” even though I will never leave you nor forsake you, Return to Me and I will return to you…
It sound that you do not believe in an "afterlife". Is physical death the end of all for each of us?

Much love!
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
23,232
33,206
113
81
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
mary found the favor of our salvation lost by Adam and Eve Lk 1:30
Yes, Mary found favor with God as did Samuel and Job and David:

"And the child Samuel grew on, and was in favour both with the LORD, and also with men." I Sam 2:26

"Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit." Job 10:12

"LORD, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled." Psalm 30:7


she is the mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Who is Jesus' mother?

"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:47-50


phil 1:29 yes carry cross