"Milk" is Doctrine, "Meat" is.....?

[amadeus]

hey thats awesome, stealin it!
is there a backside? ty

Yes, there is a backside, Putting on the Mind of Christ. It will be in my next post.

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009 @marks

 

[marks]

The "experience" is where assurance of salvation comes from,

This is becoming more clear to me how you think.

I maintain our experience is only valuable if it shows the truth of Scripture. And we can just the same by faith accept those very same truths.

One man may believe God forgave him and cleansed him, and he really really gets it, and walks day by day communing with God and overcoming his temptations.

Another man may hear this truth, but not really receive it, and spends years learning to undo his fleshy ways in favor of the new spiritual ways, having any number of experiences that effect his progress.

The experience of enduring trials, that informs our expectations for our future.

Much love!

 

[marks]

@bbyrd009 @marks
View attachment 18346

That first one . . . I am not robbing God to participate in His nature, that's excellent! I can't wait to read the rest!

Much love!

 

[marks]

you just do not like my answer....

 

[bbyrd009]

Is this to say that you don't see yourself progressed from the Cult of Sol manifestations in the Bible? That sounds off, so I'm wondering

what i mean to say is that i am from the cult of sol, and that is never going to change; i am always going to tend to want to interpret via that bias, iow, even if i have progressed “away” from it? And who knows but that we shouldnt be getting closer to it, in some ways? Our NT is full of Greek gods, and the Centurion got the highest praise! weird

When you convert the Scriptures, convert to what? What is the guide, or means? How can you know if you are taking metaphical statements that seem plain statements and interpreting them, or if you are taking plain statements, and making them metaphorical, and thereby emptying them of their intended meaning?

imo keep hold of the one, and dont lose hold of the other, but there are lots of indicators imo—“if” being one that comes to mind, vv that begin with “if” need more interpreting iow—but there are obvious passages like love your neighbor as yourself that are almost surely meant to be taken literally

but also witnesses, meaning that taking a “plain” statement and making it metaphorical should be witnessed elsewhere in the Bible, i would even say “must be”

If we use language genre as a guide, and say, the Bible speaks to us in Language, then we have that as the guide.

thing there is that definitions drift, the Hebrews even defined things differently, we define on appearances, they define on actions/results, also we have now lost the fact that names had meanings then, which we dont usually recognize and honor now? Imo if one is reading a v that has people names and place names without an understanding of what those names meant/represent, they are just flopping around and guessing; an etymology can quite often clarify the entire point of a passage imo, like the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem, dunno if you saw that one

Your thought seems to be that if Semiramis said, I did not have sex with that man! that this means when the prophet said, The virgin shall be with child, that this would have of course been understood as the same pagan idea? And therefore should not be accepted as the straightforward statement?

ha well “straightforward” to us will be interpreted differently than straightforward to a “contemporary reader” (who did not exist, practically speaking, right? Most of the NT came along 60-80 years later, at least?) steeped in the culture of Athena temples everywhere…but an etymology of “Mary” imo clears a lot of that up anyway. “Virgin birth” was hardly a new idea, though

But that aside, do you understand what I'm asking?

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009 @marks
View attachment 18346

The man who prepared these outlines and actually led a Bible study on that subject during a visit to my home assembly at the time in Oklahoma. He was pastor of a church in Montana until his death about a month ago.

 

[David H.]

I myself have come to conclude this is the heart, my opinion here, I've concluded that a failure to understand and trust in our reconciliation to God is a primary reason for Christians not living the life they dream to live as a Christian. I've concluded that a failure to understand and trust in our reconciliation to God leads Christians into legalisting thinking, that we have to continue to "buy" our acceptance by God, by "continuing to grow", or it even gets as messed up as people determining inside themself to appear as spiritual and holy as possible because "that's what I'm supposed to look like".

I Used to hold this opinion as well, which in itself is not bad, in that it teaches us the doctrine of rest, but where it falls short is that it leads to our complacency, a stagnation and a satisfaction with where we are instead of pressing on to the higher calling of God in Christ. (Philippians 3:12-14) Complacency is the ultimate form of pride because of the satisfaction and self deception that it leads to, one of of not seeing the need in yourself for further growth and transformation into Christlikeness and holiness. Trusting in the providence of God is the next step in faith from the doctrine of rest. Once we rest in Him fully we can learn to trust his providence, Just like Hebrews 3-4 deals with this doctrine of rest which leads to passage in Hebrews 5 about the meat of the word.... Just like Israel who believed in God who led them out of Egypt, but yet had not full belief in the providence of God to overcome the giants in the promised land.

So For example, we have forgiveness of our sin in our foundational salvation faith, But that can also become a victory over sin when we learn to fully trust his providence by faith, not by our own will and strength mind you but by the work of the Holy Spirit in us. When you understand this you will read Ephesians 2:8-10 in a whole different way, not one that leads to complacency with where we are at in our walk, but one that leads us to press on to that victory that is not of ourselves but of His workmanship in us. Thus we become vessels of Honor in the house....

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (2 Timothy 2:20-22)

 

[marks]

thing there is that definitions drift, the Hebrews even defined things differently, we define on appearances, they define on actions/results, also we have now lost the fact that names had meanings then, which we dont usually recognize and honor now? Imo if one is reading a v that has people names and place names without an understanding of what those names meant/represent, they are just flopping around and guessing; an etymology can quite often clarify the entire point of a passage imo, like the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem, dunno if you saw that one

This sounds like exegesis and Historical grammatical hermeneutic. Interesting!

what i mean to say is that i am from the cult of sol, and that is never going to change; i am always going to tend to want to interpret via that bias, iow, even if i have progressed “away” from it?

Thanks for clarifying that. As far as the centurion, I don't see that as a commentary on anything other than that he came to Jesus, myself.

imo keep hold of the one, and dont lose hold of the other, but there are lots of indicators imo—“if” being one that comes to mind, vv that begin with “if” need more interpreting iow—but there are obvious passages like love your neighbor as yourself that are almost surely meant to be taken literally

but also witnesses, meaning that taking a “plain” statement and making it metaphorical should be witnessed elsewhere in the Bible, i would even say “must be”

In which case the elsewhere tells us on it's own, right? So the other becomes illustrative? Hold onto both, OK, as long as the meaning doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I see that a lot, I think.

ha well “straightforward” to us will be interpreted differently than straightforward to a “contemporary reader” (who did not exist, practically speaking, right? Most of the NT came along 60-80 years later, at least?) steeped in the culture of Athena temples everywhere…but an etymology of “Mary” imo clears a lot of that up anyway. “Virgin birth” was hardly a new idea, though

It's hard to get into someone else's head, isn't it!

Much love!

 

[David H.]

This is becoming more clear to me how you think.

I maintain our experience is only valuable if it shows the truth of Scripture. And we can just the same by faith accept those very same truths.

One man may believe God forgave him and cleansed him, and he really really gets it, and walks day by day communing with God and overcoming his temptations.

Another man may hear this truth, but not really receive it, and spends years learning to undo his fleshy ways in favor of the new spiritual ways, having any number of experiences that effect his progress.

The experience of enduring trials, that informs our expectations for our future.

My Point on this is it is one thing to mentally acknowledge assurance of salvation and another thing to "KNOW" that assurance by the one who promised it.... One is mental the other relational that requires that experience of hearing from Him.

 

[Ziggy]

1 Corinthians 14:20: Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.

1 Corinthians 8:1: Now concerning things sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes arrogant, but love edifies.

that is all I’m suggesting is what Paul did there in ‘I will eat no meat if it causes my brother to offend.’ Is foreign? ‘Putting into practice’ Love edifies? Just an opinion but for me @Ziggy gave the most memorable post in all of 13 pages





Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Question about Adam and Eve eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. “And their eyes were opened”, but if the Lord does not see as man sees …just because their eyes were ‘opened ‘ how did they see? ‘Outward appearances’? we are naked? 2 Corinthians 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

Perception?

I believe naked in Genesis means there was nothing to hide. God saw them and knew them. He knew their thoughts and their emotions. Nothing was hidden and they were unashamed.
When they ate the fruit, somehow a veil came between them, possibly represented by the fig leaves they covered themselves with and hid.
They closed their minds off to God. They, in that instant of choosing the fruit had agreed to a reprobate mind.

In the next chapter we see the division of light and dark represented by Cain and Abel. One given to Satan and the other chosen to Christ.
Two in the field, one taken the other left.

I would agree that their "perception" became worldly rather than spiritual. God looks on the heart, man looks on the flesh.
But before eating of the tree (disobedience) they were in complete union. Adam had the wisdom of God and was able to name everything that was named.

So to me, the OT is man looking on the outward appearance. The laws that God gave Moses ruled the flesh.
And the NT is the lifting of that veil or wedge that lodged between the physical and spiritual knowledge.
Satan came to take away that union. Jesus came to restore it.

Was that even close to your question??
Sorry, I am almost overwhelmed today, so much going on. LOL
FOCUS!!

You guys have no idea how much of a blessing you all are to me!
HUGS
PRAISE GOD!!

 

[marks]

but where it falls short is that it leads to our complacency, a stagnation

If you are or were ending up in stagnation and complaceny, I'm glad you are receiving wake up calls. Or did.

Being reconciled to God, and living unto God isn't the problem, it's the solution.

Much love!

 

[marks]

My Point on this is it is one thing to mentally acknowledge assurance of salvation and another thing to "KNOW" that assurance by the one who promised it.... One is mental the other relational that requires that experience of hearing from Him.

I'm talking about trust in Jesus. Let's get clear on that. OK?

You continue to use this wording, like here, "mentally acknowledge".

Why?

What does it mean when you do that? What are you actually doing? Honest answers only matter to yourself.

Remember . . . you can hear Him in His Word, and if you believe it, receive it, choose to live it, you will find His promise true.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

It sound that you do not believe in an "afterlife". Is physical death the end of all for each of us?

Much love!

well the spirit goes back to God, Who gave it right
but for that i would contemplate new name, since i guess most believers anticipate an afterlife with them”selves” literally in it? Like “I, John Doe, am going to heaven after i have died?” when ol John is a completely…fabricated construct, invented by him, only he just forgot lol

 

[bbyrd009]

so we are called to faith alone?

may i suggest redefining “faith” so as to be a little more practical, less religious?

 

[marks]

When I was a kid, we used to have this game we'd play, "I know you are but what am I?" You could call it training ground for Narcissists, but what did we know then?

"You're stupid!"
"I know you are but what am I?"
"You're an idiot!"
"I know you are but what am I?"
"You're ugly!"
"I know you are but what am I?"

You get the idea by now I'm sure.

The game was, no matter what someone said, the other one would unthinkingly turn it back to the other, and always insults. The entire game was built on a knee jerk reflex to put other people down, and provoke a poor response. And repeat and repeat ad nausuem. A game that went nowhere but down.

When I became a man, I put childish things aside.

Well . . . mostly!

;)

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

pretty much destroys the Mary veneration deal imo…

 

[marks]

well the spirit goes back to God, Who gave it right
but for that i would contemplate new name, since i guess most believers anticipate an afterlife with them”selves” literally in it? Like “I, John Doe, am going to heaven after i have died?” when ol John is a completely…fabricated construct, invented by him, only he just forgot lol

Can you tell me more?

Who we were, who will will be, not necessarily in the sense of individuals, but overall?

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks for clarifying that. As far as the centurion, I don't see that as a commentary on anything other than that he came to Jesus, myself

yes, that is the standard interp i guess, but i note no “conversion” in the passage myself

In which case the elsewhere tells us on it's own, right? So the other becomes illustrative?

man, could be, or ive seen the elsewhere, the witness, be just a phrase or even a word (“heard”) buried in a different passage, in a different context even, a la you and your sons will be here with me ostensibly about saul getting advice from samuel about a “coming battle”

It's hard to get into someone else's head, isn't it!

especially ones who think so different from us, start counting at 1 instead of 0, lions and eagles are good to us, bad to them, dogs are treated differently (although im convinced they mean the behavior of dogs), on and on, huh? Why is our NT in Greek, anyway? Didnt they speak Hebrew then? That was an illuminating study

 

[David H.]

I'm talking about trust in Jesus. Let's get clear on that. OK?

You continue to use this wording, like here, "mentally acknowledge".

Why?

What does it mean when you do that? What are you actually doing? Honest answers only matter to yourself.

Much love!

I Am saying it is all part of trusting in God, what you are saying is true, but there is more there. It is not just mentally knowing the rope will hold you but actually relying on that rope to hold you as you ascend a cliff. Until you ascend the cliff and rely on that rope to hold you then and only then will you be assured of that fact.