And that being true does not erase the fact that if we've been raised with Him, we will appear with Him.
Much love!
Eternal Security
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Much love!
The fact that we will be judged does not negate the fact that those who were raised with Jesus shall appear with Him.
Much love!
Well then that's my point.
Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
Descriptive: If ye then be risen with Christ,
Prescriptive: seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Descriptive: For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Prophetic: When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
To those described as "ye then be risen with Christ", they are further described as "ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
To these, they are instructed to, "seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth."
And to these is the promise given, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." This promise is to those who were raised with Christ, who have died, and are hid with Him in God.
No other condition appears in this passage, so you either will have to conclude that this passage is correct as written, or that it's incorrect as written.
I maintain that it is correct as written, and correct understandings of other passages will harmonize.
Much love!
No Mark's
You got prescriptive and descriptive mixed up...
Colossians 3 is prescriptive....
YOU mean descriptive.
No problem.
Ah.
OK...you explained.
Marks, I'm not new here but have been gone a while and I don't know you...
Is this the only verse you'll discuss?
No, not at all.
But this thread in particular is primarily focused on how this passage, just as one example, is spectacularly incompatible with the notion that someone who has been born of God many yet be condemned to the lake of fire.
And my other focus on this thread is how John tells us in 1 John 3:1-4 how knowing this truth leads us to live the lives we want to.
Our concern is over being sufficiently obedient, sufficiently trusting so as to maintain our good standing with God. My concern is that we remain sufficiently trusting in our good standing with God so as to maintain our obedience.
Much love!
I thought we agreed when I first came to this thread,,,,guess it's too far into the subject.
Almost midnight here...
To be continued tomorrow...
Personally I find a person such as yourself who has Not a clue What OSAS means yelping on a soapbox Against OSAS completely oblivious of Making The Word Of God a Lie.
Not All Believers ARE Converted.
Conversion IS a FREEWILL choice Of every individual.
Once A man IS Converted...it IS permanent.
Nothing whatsoever Scripturally supports A man Converted and “made a new Creature” BY the Power Works of the Lord...Ever Becomes unConverted And reverted to his old dead creature.
OSAS IS NOT ... once you believe you are Forced to Always Believe!!!
OSAS IS having Freely Chosen to have Become MADE SAVED and KEPT Saved BY Gods Power.
If YOU are believing But Have Not Been Convert-ED And Become MADE A new Creature And the Lords Power “IN” you...
You ARE NOT Sav-ED.
YOU can still Fall Away from Believing...(which You indicate IS YOUR status...Not Converted, Not a new Creature, NOT Sav-ED).
IF you are still believing on the day you physically die...(called Enduring to Your end). You are NOT IN Christ...
You would be called IN Jesus.
Your body would die and your soul would be called asleep IN Jesus.
You would Not be Risen / Raptured TO Christ...You would Become Risen By God After the 1,000 year reign and Your soul sav-ED THEN.
I freely chose to Accept The Lords Offering To have my soul Sav-ED before my physical Death.
Whereas you Hope you keep believing to the end of your Physical Life...
I have the Assurance My Salvation IS kept by the Power of God, Who IS Christ, which IS IN me...and Trust there IS no power Greater than God, that can undo my Sav-ED soul!
You can abandon believing...UNLESS you have Become Converted...according to Gods WAY....which IS Specifically BY the mans Exercising His FREEWILL Of confessing True HEARTFUL Belief.
Once a man by his own freewill confesses his True Heartful Belief....
By Gods Works that mans BODY becomes Spiritually dead...crucified with Christ!
His spirit becomes Born Again via Gods Seed....
Clearly Scripture teaches this is a permanent ACT of the man....clearly Scripture teaches To BE Sure of your choice. Your yes is yes, your no is no.
There is no “changing your mind”
The decision For a yes Confession WAS never by a Confession OF your Mind....Gods WAY of Confession is precisely of a man Hearts Thoughts.
Immediately After a man MAKES a Heartful Confession...
The man becomes Bodily dead, man given a new heart, man given Gods Seed, Gods Seed Births man a new spirit....and you think man can UNDO those Works of God?
Nothing in Scripture teaches such a thing.
Perhaps God can UNDO those things?
Impossible...because that would MAKE God a liar.
Your yes yes and your no no has nothing to do with salvation.
As to all of the rest...it sounds nice.
Could you post some scripture that states that once we come to believe we could NEVER lose that belief?
Jesus does not agree with you.
Luke 8:13
Luke 15:24
John 15:2
John 15:10
....
I knew men Against Gods Word could Not Prove WITH Gods Word that Gods Word is NOT True!
I have Zero problem with Rejecting your False claims.
I have zero problem pointing out your claims are NOT supported BY Gods Word.
I have zero problem with you identifying yourself as being vulnerable to Falling Away from God.
Your Rejection of Christ Jesus’ Offering to Become Sav-ED now and Kept Sav-ED Forever unto God....IS absolutely your Freewill option to choose or Reject ... And has Zero Effect on my Freewill choice to have Accepted Christ Jesus’ Offering to me.
Yes I rightly Judge to Reject your False Preaching Against Gods Word.
I have zero concern IF you notice your False Preaching IS being Rejected.
I find it sad you try to deflect to you being Judged instead of Supporting your position With Gods Word.
It’s not About YOU.
It is about Gods Truth!
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False.
Well of course NOT!
I never said a man could not lose Belief.
Specifically A Converted SavED man Can NOT lose Belief!
No. The Word Of God Does NOT Agree with what You Said “For Me”.
So? I do not Agree with what you said “for me”.
Can you stop believing? I don't think so, but I also think that's the wrong question.
Imagine . . . you are watching a race that was run yesterday. You already know the results. True Blood came in first. And there you watch, on the screen, True Blood is coming around the first lap, and someone asks you, What if True Blood stumbles? Can't he stumble? What if he tires? Can't that happen? You already know . . . True Blood is going to finish this race, and will win it.
If the jockey doesn't ride him right he's not going to win. If True Blood gets distracted he won't win.
If you were raised with Christ . . . you shall appear with Him in glory.
You already know the result. Christ in you - the faith-filled expectation of glory.
Much love!
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