Eternal Security

[Cooper]

Well Jesus was before the world or creation. So He is the Alpha. I do not see that meaning that He was His created first man.

We agreed Jesus is the Alpha and Omega and the second Adam, but I forget what it was that brought this discussion on, so maybe we had best forget it until it crops up again. Thanks.
.

 

[Cooper]

That's not the point, But interesting response, You said Jesus didn't say earthy things, I showed you he did, But you don't believe it yet so how So How Can you learn of spiritual things?

The parables were earthly stories with a heavenly meaning, so we can learn about spiritual things that way. I'm done now, thank you.

 

[dad]

We agreed Jesus is the Alpha and Omega and the second Adam, but I forget what it was that brought this discussion on, so maybe we had best forget it until it crops up again. Thanks.
.

Ha. Sounds good.

 

[HisLife]

Did I say that? The parables were earthly stories with a heavenly meaning, so how about you give it a rest.

Yea I can give it a rest but I'm trying to help, I was just making one point....You don't see it yet, So I thought your example of Nicodemus was appropriate for the situation

 

[HisLife]

The parables were earthly stories with a heavenly meaning, so we can learn about spiritual things that way. I'm done now, thank you.

For the meantime you are on Earth, Your Sin was it in any way on earth or Earthy? Did Jesus Speak about that? The Earth is his footstool you cant ignor the creation from the Creator, Besides there will be a New earth.... Jesus spoke many Earthy Things to man on Earth, I think its important to listen

 

[GodsGrace]

Before I go any further. I want you to look at what you said.

Justification. The term is a legal term, it means to be declaired innocent of wrong doing. In the greek, it is actually the same word also translated righteous. I am righteous (declaired innocent or justified) by the blood of christ It is a one time, done deal. Nothing can take that away from me, Because I could not earn it. It was paid in full on the cross.

I am being sanctified. A lifelong project of God working in me to help me grow. While this is all gods work, Unlike justification. In which I can not in any way help myself (i must be like the tax collector) sanctification take me reacting to Gods work in a way that I grow in him as I trust him more and more.
Agreed.

Justification is not dependent on how sanctified I become.

Right.
Justification is the same as salvation.
God declares you to be righteous - right with God.
You are declared innocent, just as you've stated.
It's a moment and has nothing to do with sanctification.

Many people (like paul) will become super mature believers, and will recieve great reward as they have produced much fruit. Others. May not recieve much if any reward (wood hay and straw) because they did not allow God to work much in their lives, they remained babes in christ, who needed fed milk. Because they never grew. But as Paul says, even though after their works are tried by fire. And all they have is ash. They were still saved, even as through fire. (Imagine a man running through fire to escape his burning house and all he has is the clothes on his back) which I believe was the image paul was trying to portray.

You're referring to 1 Corinthians 3 which is speaking about Paul's ministry (and Apollo),
but OK, I know what you mean and I agree.
We are not all the same, but we are all accepted.

As you read my responses to your questions Please not I answer in a way it appears you are discussing sanctification. Not justification. So please bear with me in my answers and do not take them as attacking you. As that is the last thing I would want to do.

Sadly. Same take it as an insult. And I am not trying to do that to you brother..

I'm a sister.
I think we'll be good...you seem to be a nice fellow.

Are you obeying in order to make sure you will be saved in the end. Or because you have been justified completely and out of appreciation and love you are obedient?

Obeying commands should have no bearing on ones justification. God requires perfection (gal 3) if we are going to try to be saved by obedience.


What is Gods standard of perfection for justification? Is it not perfect? Can you meet that standard?

We’re you justified Freely? or are you still trying to be justified?

I am not against obedience. I am discussing the ability to save ourself by obedience.

This notion of God requiring perfection just isn't biblical.
IF we live by the Law, we will be judged by the Law.
If we break just one Law, it's as if all laws have been broken.
This is because we will always sin during our lifetime...though very much less after salvation.

But, also as Paul said, we are NOT under Law but under Grace.
Romans 3:21
We are right with God through Faith in Jesus Christ.

It's our faith that justifies us and makes us right with God.
(not our works).

Well from the sounds of your first two questions. One must ask. And did you not say we could lose salvation? How can you lose something you could never earn? Unless you had to earn it?

And why are you talking about obedience when we are discussing salvation?

I hope you can see why I am questioning you and tryign to find out what you really believe instead of assuming I know..

I'm discussing obedience because after a person is saved they must obey God.
Before salvation, they're lost anyway, so disobedience makes no difference to the final outcome (of their destiny).
After salvation, the N.T. is full of verses that state we are to live a righteous life.
Jesus said the lawless will not see heaven.
Matthew 7:23

He said only those that do the will of the Father will enter.
Matthew 7:21

Jesus said we are to repent. Repent means to change our direction and go the other way.
Matthew 4:17

If they're done for God, they will save us.
Is this not teaching works? Is this not saying if we do works for God they will justify us and rescue us from the penalty of sin? (Remember that is the context of our conversation. Rescue from the penalty of sin, or salvation) but if we do works not for God they will not save us?

A claimed faith which has no works is dead. A true faith does not have to worry about works, It will work

A licentious, believe only person claims to have faith. But it dead, its lifeless. It is seen before men as void of works. But God knows what kind of faith a person has the moment they come to him. You can fool a man, but you can not fool God. Paul was against legalism, James spoke against licentious easy believism. They did not contradict each other.

Again, What is the standard? Is it not perfection? Did jesus not say, be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect? Have you met that standard? I have not. I can feed the poor. Visit the sick and forgive others all I want. It will not make God forgive one sin I ever commited.

I just read too many posts that SEEM to state that after salvation nothing more is necessary.
I believe it's called FAITH ONLY. The Faith Only movement.
I disagree with this.
But I do agree with all you've said. You don't seem to be saying that.

Once again, Your discussing the works of sanctification here.

Our discussion s about eternal salvation or justification. Why are you talking about works of Justification?

I am going to break this post into two responses It gets to long and I do not like long posts. They are hard to go through.

You're right.
Works come AFTER justification.
Justification has nothing to do with works,,,but only faith.

When we have faith in God, we do whatever works we can..
be they what they are.

 

[GodsGrace]

You can have Gods Spirit IN you and still wavering in belief in God?
I Never learned that from Scripture.



Are you sure Jesus and John were speaking to a Converted Person?

Who do you think John was speaking to in 1 John?

 

[GodsGrace]

Then how in the world could all that ever be turned back? And why would it be? That makes zero sense to me. And especially considering the certainty of these passages. Reborn is forever.

Much love!

It's in scripture marks.
It's plain to see, but some do not want this to be true.
I think it's a good idea to state that we need to hold on to Jesus and love God forever.

 

[Taken]

Who do you think John was speaking to in 1 John?

1 John is clear “WHO” John the Apostle was “SPEAKING TO”...and “SPEAKING ABOUT”.

Speaking TO (by letter), Listeners (readers) OF the Letter.
Speaking to you (anyone hearing, listening, reading the letter)
Speaking ABOUT WE (Apostles)
Speaking to Little Children (new to hearing, new to believing)
Speaking to whosoever (Anyone listening, reading)
Speaking to Brethren (fellow Jews, fellow believers)
Speaking to fathers (any man with offspring)
Speaking to young men (any man without offspring)
Speaking ABOUT men who Heard, (believed THEN rejected Jesus).
Speaking to Beloved (believing men Converted IN Jesus)
Speaking to Every man
Speaking to Whosoever (men that transgress the Law)
Speaking to Whosoever (IS Converted)
Speaking ABOUT Cain (who murdered Abel)
Speaking ABOUT the Wicked one (deceiving influencer)

If you have EVER Listened to Any Efficient Pastor Preach a Sermon to a whole congregation, YOU SHOULD have Heard him SPEAKING TO...
People hearing for the FIRST time.
People hearing but UNSURE of what they believe.
People who heard, believed, but STOPPED believing.
People who are hearing, but not listening
....(ie Children whose parents MAKE them go to church)
....(ie Spouse attending because spouse insists)
....(ie People attending to build a community reputation)
....(ie People attending to gather potential business contacts)
People who WANT Pastoral counseling for a specific issue
....(ie Advice on Which Scriptures teach how to overcome “an issue”.)
People who ARE Converted.
People who WANT TO Become Converted.

As I have said NUMEROUS TIMES...
ALL SCRIPTURE IS TRUE.
NOT ALL SCRIPTURE APPLIES TO EVERY PERSON!

YOU have TO KNOW what APPLIES TO YOU.
(You can NOT BE....a saved person and also an unsaved person!)
If a Scripture is SPEAKING ABOUT an unsaved person....(and the person IS SAVED) IS THAT Scripture SPEAKING TO that Saved person? No.

I have seen your posts, and what you say.
You appear to “apply” ALL Scriptures TO YOU, without “understanding”, IF or WHY that Scripture actually DOES Apply to YOU.
And, further, YOU, have in your mind, All Scripture APPLIES to “everyone” else. IT Doesn’t!

1 John 3:9 DOES APPLY to me, and I KNOW WHY.
I KNOW what the Lord “offered” and “required” of me, TO BECOME Converted AND RECEIVE the Seed of God, IN me, and Trust Gods Himself IS FAITHFUL, TO KEEP me FREE from Sin, Via HIS POWER IN ME.

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Men WHO “REDEFINE” the express language of 1 John 3:9....by claiming THEY ARE CONVERTED....but, but, but....STILL COMMIT SIN...
Are expressly “killing” the True Word of God, by Making Gods True Word...
A LIE!

Do you KNOW, WHY Satan, was cast OUT of Heaven?
Do you KNOW, WHY Satan, is Called a “Murderer”?

He was the FIRST to “kill” the Word of God, by Making Gods True Word....
A LIE!

Did you KNOW, earthly men have been taught, and warned...TO NOT DO WHAT Satan did? And Why?
Because they will be “CAST DOWN”, same as Satan was “CAST” down.
Satan was in Heaven....”cast down” to earth.
Men are ON Earth...”a casting down”, means Cast to Hell.

If you want to KNOW who 1 John is speaking TO:
Read all of 1 John...It speaks to beginner listeners, long time listeners, believers who quit believing, sinners, forgiven and converted, converted men kept from sin by Gods power, men with children, men without children, Jews, anyone.....YOU have to decide what applies to you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

It's in scripture marks.
It's plain to see, but some do not want this to be true.
I think it's a good idea to state that we need to hold on to Jesus and love God forever.

What IS in Scripture....IS;
Men CAN Hear, BELIEVE, (even make a public confession of belief)
THEN STOP believing, STOP following...

DO YOU seriously Believe, God IS “somehow” unknowing “IF” their public Confession of belief.......was heartfully true?

It is a no win situation for a LIAR.
A man WHO says he believes...(gets the water dip before the eyes of men);
By ALL ‘Appearances’ ... other men BELIEVE the man is Saved...right?

So, a few years later, the man says....he changed his mind...he no longer believes.
Do you Believe...^ man.... WAS SAVED? And THEN became “Unsaved”?

It appears, that is your belief. Is it?

 

[Taken]

The parables were earthly stories with a heavenly meaning, so we can learn about spiritual things that way. I'm done now, thank you.

I will ask you to consider...
The meaning of a Parable, according to man, is partially what you describe...
According to an “earthly” man, a Parable is a “made up story”, to make a point “regarding a “separate” point someone is trying to prove as a fact.

Jesus “spoke” IN Parables.
Jesus “speaking” IN Parables, fulfilled a Prophecy.

Matt 13:
[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Prophecy:
Psalm 78:
[1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
[2] I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

The disciples asked Jesus, WHY He spoke in Parables...

Matt 13:
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: BECAUSE they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

WHAT IS the Understanding OF WHY Jesus spoken in Parables?
WHAT DID Jesus speaking in Parables “accomplish”?

First, WE KNOW, Jesus was sent TO Earth, to “Accomplish”, Gods will:
(Isa 55:11)
We also KNOW, Just before Jesus’ body died on the Cross, Jesus said, He had “Accomplish-ed” all He was Sent To “Accomplish”,
(John 19:28)
and Jesus called His “Accomplishments”...FINISHED.
(John 19:30)

Jesus spoke to a CROWD. (In the crowd were the curious, hearing for the first time, some hearing much as having been following Jesus, ie a mixed crowd.)
** The Understanding IS....they ALL HEARD the ONE SAME SPEECH.

Immediately any person IN the Crowd, could recognize Jesus spoke IN Parables....telling a STORY, making a POINT.

Further study of Scripture REVEALS prominent “FACTS”...to consider.
1) Jesus IS the Truth. He can NOT SPEAK what IS “NOT TRUE”.
2) Some people BELIEVE Jesus IS the TRUTH.
3) Some people DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus IS the TRUTH.
4) Jesus Spoke IN Parables. “” IF”” you believe, Jesus IS the Truth (it does not matter if Jesus Spoke .. in what is called parables, riddles, analogies, stories...etc.
Every word He Spoke IS TRUE.
5) Every “story” Jesus spoke of in His “parables”, WERE IN FACT, revealing TRUTHS, TRUE Knowledge (that HAD BEEN KEPT SECRET from men!)
(Matt 13:35)

Paraphrasing... Matt 13:35
Some men in the crowd....Heard Jesus’ speech, and said Eh, Pfft (a made up story)... no big deal, nothing to consider.
Some men in the crowd....Heard Jesus’ speech, and said WOW (we are hearing secret knowledge, men never before KNEW!!)

It is a DIFFERENCE of the people IN the crowd....
1) who believed Jesus IS the Truth and CAN ONLY speak what IS TRUE.
2) who give no consideration or belief THAT Jesus CAN ONLY speak what IS True.

The DIFFERENCE of the people IN the crowd....Transfers TO PEOPLE, centuries later, WHO, are Hearing and Reading...the ACCOUNT in Scripture.
EITHER...
1) a man (hears or reads) EVERY single one of Jesus “parables” and says “EH”, Just a made up story, to make a point. (I’ll decide what the point means)
“OR”
2) a man (hears or reads) EVERY single one of Jesus “parables” and says
“WOW”, Jesus just revealed TRUE FACTS, that no earthly man before KNEW!
(Jesus JUST Revealed “what the point” means.)

You have to decide, which man you are...
Personally I trust to Believe Jesus IS the TRUTH and He CAN NOT speak what is NOT TRUE.
I am of the latter......WOW.....every one of Jesus’ Parables, Reveal True Facts, that had been Kept Secret from other men for centuries.

1 Pet 2:
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Some people say there are an exact “number” of Jesus’ “parables”.
However It is a pretty amazing thing to highlight and read every instance whereby....scripture reveals....The Lord Jesus Speaking.
Eye opening, (to Secrets)... “IF”, one believes Jesus IS the Truth and can ONLY speak the truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry it took so long to get back with you

Right.
Justification is the same as salvation.
God declares you to be righteous - right with God.
You are declared innocent, just as you've stated.
It's a moment and has nothing to do with sanctification.


You're referring to 1 Corinthians 3 which is speaking about Paul's ministry (and Apollo),
but OK, I know what you mean and I agree.
We are not all the same, but we are all accepted.

It is good we agree

I'm a sister.
I think we'll be good...you seem to be a nice fellow.

Forgive me! I humbly bow down in repentance..lol

This notion of God requiring perfection just isn't biblical.
IF we live by the Law, we will be judged by the Law.
If we break just one Law, it's as if all laws have been broken.
This is because we will always sin during our lifetime...though very much less after salvation.

For saving oneself it is biblical

In deut Moses said cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word.
In Gal 3 Paul quotes Moses. And states that this is why the law can save no one
And finally James said if we keep the whole law and stumble in one point, we are guilty of all.

If one wants to save themselves. The perfection is required.

For a believer in Christ. Although he is not under the law. If he tries to say we must earn salvation by obedience or by religious works or something else. They in effect place themselves back under the law. Where again, Obedience is required.

We can also look at it like this

Gods standard is perfection.

No one has met that standard. (Rom 3 for all have sinned and fall short. Of Gods glorious standard)

Since no one can meet that standard. To say even after we are saved. One can fall short of that standard but still has to obey if they want to be saved, is to in effect declair we can save ourselves and not meet Gods standard.

This is a battle Paul fraught with the jews. And sadly, this battle continues today with many christians.

But, also as Paul said, we are NOT under Law but under Grace.
Romans 3:21
We are right with God through Faith in Jesus Christ.

It's our faith that justifies us and makes us right with God.
(not our works).

Yes, in perfect agreement

I'm discussing obedience because after a person is saved they must obey God.
Before salvation, they're lost anyway, so disobedience makes no difference to the final outcome (of their destiny).
After salvation, the N.T. is full of verses that state we are to live a righteous life.
Jesus said the lawless will not see heaven.
Matthew 7:23

He said only those that do the will of the Father will enter.
Matthew 7:21

Jesus said we are to repent. Repent means to change our direction and go the other way.
Matthew 4:17

Ok lets look at this.

The lawless will not see heaven.

As shown according to the law. If we just STUMBLE in one point, We are found guilty.

Apart from Grave, you and I and everyone we see is lawless. Because we have failed to live up to Gods standard.

We must repent BEFORE we become saved. No one comes to faith in Christ unless they have repented.

Sadly many people who call themselves Christian has not yet repented. James speaks of those who claim to have faith. And asked if that claimed faith can save them? They still live in sin, they have no works. Have they repented? No. If they did, they would show some form of change which proved their repentance was real. Even John the Baptist demanded the pharisees show proof of their repentance before he would baptise them.

Paul also spoke to a group who had not yet repented. Their faith was in hw good they were. The law. And the works of the law. So even thought they too claimed to have faith. Paul called them anatham and fools because they tried to institute obedience and works of the law as a means of “perfecting” their faith or salvation.

I just read too many posts that SEEM to state that after salvation nothing more is necessary.

For salvation this is true. We can;t say we are saved or justified by faith and it is a one time event, then turn around and say after we are justified, we must earn that justification by works. They would be contradicting ourselves. And it would also be like saying we begin in the spirit, yet Try to perfect in the flesh. This is mixing works and grace. Which is dangerous. And I believe a false gospel

I believe it's called FAITH ONLY. The Faith Only movement.
I disagree with this.

For salvation (justification) it is faith only,

But for sanctification, it is faith and works..

While there is a faith only, easy believism group out there who are more licentious in their gospel then grace based. I personally have never really met any of these people. or If I have they were so few. I do not even remember them

When I hear people accuse others of easy believism or faith alone people. Most of the time if nt all. They are arguing against someone who believes we are justified by faith alone. And that under no circumstance does works have any part of where our final desitination will be

But when you ask them. They are all about working for God. Growing in grace and truth, doing the works of God. Yet the people accusing them do nt listen to them, just attack them and tell them how they love their sin etc etc.

We must be careful, in my experience. I see the licentious people call grace believers legalistic. (Salvation by wrks) While the legalists call the grace believers licentious (sin lovers)

I have been in christian chats for about 7 years now (maybe longer?) and this is what I see in almost every law vs works, or faith vs works conversation I have encountered.

But I do agree with all you've said. You don't seem to be saying that.

Thank you. I am so glad you see this

You're right.
Works come AFTER justification.
Justification has nothing to do with works,,,but only faith.

When we have faith in God, we do whatever works we can..
be they what they are.

Amen.

We should not judge a persons salvation based on what or how many works they do. Only God knows who has truly repented and who truly has faith!

 

[Aries]

Greetings,

Something to consider above debating scriptures and their context, do people realise when you test the validity of the OSAS premise and apply it to healing deliverance and prosperity that the OSAS believer still gets sick, still falls back into bondage, and still struggles with lack in their lives?

This should not be possible because these 3 other provisions just like salvation, equally come under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

Now you may ask yourself, why would a person even apply the OSAS premise to these other provisions?

The obvious reason is we are talking about our immortal soul and where it will spend eternity, so it is only natural to want to test the validity of the OSAS premise for reassurance.

Since the OSAS premise claims that salvation is eternal, secure, and your sins are forgiven past present and future then you would get exactly the same results when you apply the OSAS premise to healing deliverance and prosperity because they all equally come under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

So, if you applied the OSAS premise of salvation to healing deliverance and prosperity, then the OSAS believer should also be once healed always healed, once delivered always delivered and once prospered always prospered, because salvation is not a separate provision there all equally covered under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

But instead, when the OSAS premise is applied to these 3 other provisions it contradicts the OSAS premise, its supporting scriptures and questions the validity of the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

This becomes proof that the OSAS premise is misleading and giving OSAS believers a false sense of guaranteed security that their salvation is secure. When there is evidence that it is not and that OSAS believers have been taught misinterpreted scriptures with compelling explanations.

Now if you think that's not possible, there is not one supporting scripture or one preacher or teacher whose revelational explanations prevented the contradiction of these results like the OSAS premise claims when the OSAS premise was applied to these 3 other provisions, not one scripture or explanation made a difference.

The conclusion is this is infallible proof that the OSAS claims of salvation and sin are misleading and can prevent a person from entering the kingdom of God.

The transformation process has nothing to do with earning or working for your salvation, you are learning growing and evolving in your personal relationship with Jesus after the transition of being born again.

Sinner - salvation - born again - fellowship - baptised in water when your ready - baptised in the Spirit when your ready - discipleship - renew your mind - transform, - walk in the Spirit - develop the fruit of the Spirit in your life - love God and your neighbour as your self - confess your sins when you make mistakes - evangelize - and minister to the needs of other people.

Why does this, not once saved always saved process sound so unreasonable and excessive when it has just been proven that the OSAS premise fails its application test with all its supporting scriptures and explanations when it is applied to these other 3 provisions that were equally given by grace like salvation under the same death resurrection and atonement of Jesus?

Peace.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

@Aries, Precious friend, concerning God's ETERNAL Life vs

man's temporary life:

Apparently, a new method of comparing a "premise" with Another so-called
"premise" proves beyond a shadow of a doubt for some scholars.

However, some of us students Of God's Sound Doctrine, Prefer HIS
Method Of comparing/understanding HIS Word Of Truth, According To:
"Rule # 5" of Bible "study" Rules!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:9 =
GRACE/Mystery fellowship (Romans - Philemon),
For ALL “to SEE,” today,?

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

the OSAS believer still gets sick, still falls back into bondage, and still struggles with lack in their lives?

Precious friend, of course we ALL "have infirmities," According To God's
PERFECT Will FOR us, Today, Under GRACE. However that does NOT mean that we "fall back Into bondage," But, Rather, Acknowledging God's Sound Doctrine, we can truly experience The POWER Of God, According To HIS Scriptures!

NOT our premises!!:
GRACE Word for infirmities!

Be Encouraged Again...

 

[Daniel Veler]

Read psalms 89 starting with verse 27 where the Lord speaks of Christ being his first born. Then pay attention to those in him. Then you’ll see why Paul wrote if your without chastisement you are a bastard and not a son of God.

 

[Aries]

d t

Precious friend, of course we ALL "have infirmities," According To God's
PERFECT Will FOR us, Today, Under GRACE. However that does NOT mean that we "fall back Into bondage," But, Rather, Acknowledging God's Sound Doctrine, we can truly experience The POWER Of God, According To HIS Scriptures!

NOT our premises!!:
GRACE Word for infirmities!

Be Encouraged Again...

Greetings,

Thank you for your response and fruitful reply.

Boy i needed that sleep I am still tired.

I find when people use scriptures to debate the OSAS premise it just an endless loop that goes around and around for eternity.

But when you test the validity claims of the OSAS premise with supporting scriptures established by the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

There can only be two outcomes it will prove that the OSAS premise is valid true and correct or it will prove that the OSAS premise is contradicted with supporting scriptures which also contradicts the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus.

Well, the OSAS premise failed the application test when it was applied to the provisions of healing deliverance and prosperity, they never become divine like salvation and a believer did point out that it wouldn’t be possible for people to live in divine health or they would never ger sick and die.

Which is a very valid point but remember we are using the tone set by the OSAS premise and there are four ways to die

Accidental
Natural
Murder
Suicide

So we can rule out natural, but there are 3 other ways a person can die.

Thanks again, I appreciate your thoughts.

Peace.