Locusts in Revelation

[Davy]

God's faithful Christian people will be taken to a place of safety for the duration of the Great Trib. Revelation 12:14
Jesus will gather them at His Return. Matthew 24:30-31

That's what deceived Jews think, some even citing Petra. But that's not what God's Word teaches. Jesus said for those in Jerusalem to flee when they see the AOD setup there. He didn't say exactly where, to just get out of Judea. And for those of His in the countries, He said to not enter into Jerusalem when that happens.

So I don't know where you're getting such an idea that the Church is going to be gathered early, BEFORE Christ's coming return, unless you are SECRETLY trying to push the false Pre-trib Rapture theory, for that is what they believe.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

God's faithful Christian people will be taken to a place of safety for the duration of the Great Trib. Revelation 12:14
Jesus will gather them at His Return. Matthew 24:30-31

Rev. 12:14 is only the first half of the GT, and is referring to only national Israel, not Gentile Christians from before the start of the GT. The latter are the "rest of her offspring" at the end of the chapter who the Antichrist/beast will persecute and be "tested" by God because of their prior lukewarmness. (letters to the seven churches) If they don't take the mark of the beast, they will be saved. Then Rev. 13 shows that the beast will be allowed to continue for another 42 months, making 7 years total, this time the newly saved Jews and the rest of the lukewarm Christians from before the start of the GT will be tested/in tribulation that have not already been martyred. But those worthy Christians now who obey and do all of the Word of God will be protected and provided for by God and be allowed to remain to the end.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Pre-trib believes in new Jewish converts for the tribulation, they call "tribulation saints". In reality, there's no Scripture about their conversion during the trib.

Did you mean "and."

There is Scripture about the conversion of national Israel during the trib. Romans 11. Just no new Gentiles will be saved during the trib. Their number has been fulfilled.

Romans 11:
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


All unbelieving Gentiles will then have a strong delusion put on them.

2 Thes. 2:
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[TEXBOW]

Will the tribulation saints be protected from God's wrath for the whole seven years or not?

I think we need to make sure we are talking about the same thing. God's wrath will be a traumatic event upon the earth. Those events will impact all who are alive so in a sense, God's wrath will be felt by all. If we are talking about those who refuse the mark of the beast the scriptures tell us that God will protect them from certain events. I think many tribulation saints will be martyred for their refusal to take the M.O.B. If the rapture happens this afternoon there will be millions who are not blind to God's word even if they have not chosen to believe. My thought is many of those will understand what has happened and drop to their knees asking for salvation. They will experience many hardships and those who endure until the end will be saved. I do not think Jesus is going to reverse the non-distinction between Gentile and Jew. I have not seen anything to make me think that the M.O.B is only for the Jews (Isreal). What would be the significance of refusing the M.O.B if some were not going to be saved during the tribulation?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If the rapture happens this afternoon there will be millions who are not blind to God's word even if they have not chosen to believe.

Revelation 12 does not show a rapture before the second coming.

I have not seen anything to make me think that the M.O.B is only for the Jews (Isreal). What would be the significance of refusing the M.O.B if some were not going to be saved during the tribulation?

The mark of the beast is for everyone declaring their allegiance to either God or the beast separating the sheep from the goats. Gentile Christians were Christians BEFORE the GT starts so are on earth, not in some erroneously believed secret rapture. The fullness of the Gentiles coming into the Church is the end of Gentile new converts. Then a strong delusion is put on all Gentiles who did not believe when they had the chance. The shift goes to the fulfillment of prophecy of national Israel, and all Israel will be saved. I think that is because at the same time that the beast/Antichrist is revealed, so will the two witnesses for the first 3.5 years, and their testimony will convince all Israel, but the unsaved will hate them. The protection of the Jews/woman of Rev. 12:14 is only for the first half of the GT, then after the two witnesses are killed, and after 3 days are resurrected and return to heaven, then the Antichrist will be loosed on the new Jewish converts as well as the rest of the living Gentile Christians who became Christians before the GT started who were lukewarm before, and are now tested to overcome their sinful ways. Many of them will be martyred. Rev. 7. Of course, the already righteous or holy Christians will be protected. As 2 Thes. 2:9-12 shows, no new Gentiles will be saved. But Romans 11 shows that now Israel will be saved. Why? The two witnesses. Revelation 7 shows that indeed the newly sealed/saved are Israel.

 

[TEXBOW]

Revelation 12 does not show a rapture before the second coming.



The mark of the beast is for everyone declaring their allegiance to either God or the beast separating the sheep from the goats. Gentile Christians were Christians BEFORE the GT starts so are on earth, not in some erroneously believed secret rapture. The fullness of the Gentiles coming into the Church is the end of Gentile new converts. Then a strong delusion is put on all Gentiles who did not believe when they had the chance. The shift goes to the fulfillment of prophecy of national Israel, and all Israel will be saved. I think that is because at the same time that the beast/Antichrist is revealed, so will the two witnesses for the first 3.5 years, and their testimony will convince all Israel, but the unsaved will hate them. The protection of the Jews/woman of Rev. 12:14 is only for the first half of the GT, then after the two witnesses are killed, and after 3 days are resurrected and return to heaven, then the Antichrist will be loosed on the new Jewish converts as well as the living Gentile Christians who became Christians before the GT started. Many of them will be martyred. Rev. 7. As 2 Thes. 2:9-12 shows, no new Gentiles will be saved. But Romans 11 shows that now Israel will be saved. Why? The two witnesses. Revelation 7 shows that indeed the newly sealed/saved are Israel.

Let's just say we are very far apart, too far to continue this discussion. Prayers that we all learn and grow in the truth.

 

[Waiting on him]

What do the "locusts" in Revelation 9:3, 7-10 represent? Please provide scriptural reference-if possible-to support your responses. I know of scriptural references on this subject, but I am interested in other opinions.

In the Old Testament they have no king, suddenly in revelation they have one.

 

[amigo de christo]

In the Old Testament they have no king, suddenly in revelation they have one.

Cause they aint no natural phyiscal locusts . THEY tormentors sent to torment those who rejected CHRIST JESUS .
Working through men . Just as Christain work under and by the SPIRIT of CHRIST , so too do all who know not Christ
work under the spirit of the prince of darkness . I notice something real interesting about these described locusts .
They have crowns , they also have the faces of MEN but the hair of WOMEN . Rather odd isnt it .
This has a meaning of course .

 

[Waiting on him]

Cause they aint no natural phyiscal locusts . THEY tormentors sent to torment those who rejected CHRIST JESUS .
Working through men . Just as Christain work under and by the SPIRIT of CHRIST , so too do all who know not Christ
work under the spirit of the prince of darkness . I notice something real interesting about these described locusts .
They have crowns , they also have the faces of MEN but the hair of WOMEN . Rather odd isnt it .
This has a meaning of course .

Definitely symbolic.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Let's just say we are very far apart, too far to continue this discussion. Prayers that we all learn and grow in the truth.

Is it because of the issue of pre-trib. vs. post-trib. rapture? If you are pre-trib., I'm curious who you believe are the "rest of her offspring" who are not Jewish if not Gentile Christians, the wild olive branches, because we do know that 2 Thes. 2:9-12 puts out to pasture any belief that tribulation saints weren't already Christians coming into the GT, though not yet overcomers. And Revelation 7 shows that the only newly sealed Christians are from the 12 tribes of Israel. So who do you think are "the rest of her offspring"? It is too important to be afraid to talk about this as the GT starts in probably less than a year. 2029 minus 7 is 2022.

 

[Davy]

Did you mean "and."

There is Scripture about the conversion of national Israel during the trib. Romans 11. Just no new Gentiles will be saved during the trib. Their number has been fulfilled.

The Romans 11 fulness of the Gentiles is on the day of Christ's return. That's when the unbelieving Jew's blindness will be removed, and they will realize Jesus is The Messiah afterall. This is why they will wish for the hills and mountains to fall upon them because of their shame on that day of Christ's return.

See end of Zechariah 12. Luke 23:27-30 is about that day of His return also...

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'
KJV

I know many brethren believe those who wish for the hills and mountains to fall upon them on that day of Christ's return are the truly wicked. It's not, it's about the deceived unbelieving Jews when they see Jesus coming in the clouds.

The deceived unbelieving Jews will wish for the hills and mountains to fall upon them because of shame at having refused Jesus as The Messiah. That won't happen during the trib, but will occur on the last day when Jesus comes to end it, and they then see Him. This is what the end of Zechariah 12 is about when they mourn for Him; it happens on the day of Jesus' return.

The above parable about "Blessed are the barren..." is difficult for many. It's from Isaiah 54. The gist of it is about true worship with waiting for Jesus's coming vs. those who don't wait and instead fall away to the false Messiah that comes first. Being spiritually barren in the womb means you waited on Jesus to come. Not having a barren womb, but instead having borne children is symbolically put for false worship to the false Messiah that comes first. This is why those daughters of Jerusalem will say about the faithful who waited on Jesus, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare...". If one has not studied the OT prophets like Isaiah, they wouldn't know where Lord Jesus was pulling that parable from.

 

[Davy]

Cause they aint no natural phyiscal locusts . THEY tormentors sent to torment those who rejected CHRIST JESUS .
Working through men . Just as Christain work under and by the SPIRIT of CHRIST , so too do all who know not Christ
work under the spirit of the prince of darkness . I notice something real interesting about these described locusts .
They have crowns , they also have the faces of MEN but the hair of WOMEN . Rather odd isnt it .
This has a meaning of course .

Yeah, their description is to show us 'how' they work deception for the end. Their timing is on the 5th trumpet - 1st Woe, and 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe. Per Revelation 11, Jesus is shown taking reign on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe. That points to the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe period being the time of great tribulation just prior to His coming.

Hair of women -- a woman's hair is soft, beautiful, smooth. This symbolizes how those locusts (men) work deception, soothsaying, speaking what the people want to hear. But underneath in reality, their aim is like the teeth of lions when they attack their prey.

Apostle Paul actually gave us a warning about this kind of working in 2 Corinthians 11 concerning the "another Jesus". He warned how Satan's ministers disguise as the ministers of righteousness. And Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light.

 

[Keraz]

So I don't know where you're getting such an idea that the Church is going to be gathered early, BEFORE Christ's coming return,

From the Bible Prophesies:
The Lord’s faithful Christian people will enter the holy Land with joy and thanksgiving:

Isaiah 35:10 The Lord’s people, set free, will enter Zion with shouts of triumph…
Gladness and joy will come upon them, while suffering and sorrow will pass away.

Psalms 149:4-5 For the Lord accepts the service of His people and crowns the lowly with victory. Let His loyal servants exult in triumph!

Jeremiah 33:6 & 25 I shall restore the Land, My people will live there. They will shout: Praise the Lord of Hosts, for He is good and His love endured forever.

Psalms 69:36 Those who serve the Lord and love His Name, will inherit the Land.

Psalms 37:9 Those who trust in the Lord, will inherit the Land.

Isaiah 57:13b but, he who makes Me his refuge, will possess the Land.

Psalms 85:9 Certainly, His loyal followers will soon experience His deliverance, then glory will appear in our Land.

Isaiah 61:3-6 My righteous people, planted in the Lord’s holy Land, to display His glory.

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the humble, for they will inherit the Land.

Isaiah 29:19-22 The lowly and poor will once again rejoice in the Lord, sinners will be cut down.

Jeremiah 12:14-15 The Lord says: I shall uproot those evil people who occupy My holy Land…. Judah may come back only if they learn the ways of My [Christian] people.

Isaiah 32:15-20 The Land has been [will be] made forsaken and desolated….but in a very short time, it will become a garden Land, where My people will dwell in peace.

Zechariah 9:16 The Lord will save His people like a flock, for they are like precious jewels, that sparkle all about His Land.

Jeremiah 23:3-4 I will bring My sheep back to the Land, they will increase and be fruitful. I shall appoint shepherds who will tend them, they will live in peace.

John 10:16 There are other sheep of Mine, not of this fold. I will lead them, they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one Shepherd.

Ezekiel 34:11-31….You are My flock, the sheep that I feed and I am your God…


Isaiah 66:18b-21 I will gather My people from every race, nation and language. They will come on every type of conveyance, as an offering to the Lord in Zion.

Psalm 107:1-3 & 36-38 Let those redeemed by the Lord, give thanks. All of His righteous people, gathered from around the world. They are blessed with peace and prosperity.

Psalms 147:12-20 The Lord has brought peace and plenty to His Land.
Praise the Lord!

Reference: REB. Some verses abridged

 

[amigo de christo]

Yeah, their description is to show us 'how' they work deception for the end. Their timing is on the 5th trumpet - 1st Woe, and 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe. Per Revelation 11, Jesus is shown taking reign on the 7th trumpet - 3rd Woe. That points to the 6th trumpet - 2nd Woe period being the time of great tribulation just prior to His coming.

Hair of women -- a woman's hair is soft, beautiful, smooth. This symbolizes how those locusts (men) work deception, soothsaying, speaking what the people want to hear. But underneath in reality, their aim is like the teeth of lions when they attack their prey.

Apostle Paul actually gave us a warning about this kind of working in 2 Corinthians 11 concerning the "another Jesus". He warned how Satan's ministers disguise as the ministers of righteousness. And Satan himself disguises himself as an angel of light.

There is one thing i also noticed in corinthians . The womans hair is given her as a covering . Glory etc .

 

[Davy]

Rev. 12:14 is only the first half of the GT, and is referring to only national Israel, not Gentile Christians from before the start of the GT.

Not really; the Revelation 12:6 verse is pointing to the 1st half of Daniel's symbolic "one week". The latter half with the placing of the AOD idol in Jerusalem is when the "great tribulation" will begin, as per Jesus in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:15-21). The Revelation 12:7-9 war in Heaven when Satan and his angels are kicked down to the earth, and then goes after the symbolic woman, that is about the latter half of the "one week", and is when the AOD will be setup. Revelation 12:11 about those who overcame him by The Blood of The Lamb (Jesus) is about the dragon's persecution of some of Christ's Church after he is booted down to this earth for the end. That mention of "short time" in Revelation 12:12 he knows he has is pointing to the shortened time Lord Jesus said He shortened the tribulation to.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There is one thing i also noticed in corinthians . The womans hair is given her as a covering . Glory etc .

“The womans hair is given as a covering. Glory etc …” makes me think of the fruit of the Spirit: love, peace, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, Faith, meekness, temperance; in all goodness and righteousness and truth…that comes down from above. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. [11] And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. [12] For it is a shame (not glory? To make shorn?)even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Ephesians 5:8-14, Galatians 5:22-23

2EBDFC5B-6D37-4CAB-BAD0-8833FE36F047

• VictoryinJesus
• Nov 26, 2021
• 6

 

[amigo de christo]

“The womans hair is given as a covering. Glory etc …” makes me think of the fruit of the Spirit: love, peace, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, Faith, meekness, temperance; in all goodness and righteousness and truth…that comes down from above. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. [11] And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. [12] For it is a shame (not glory? To make shorn?)even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. Ephesians 5:8-14, Galatians 5:22-23

2EBDFC5B-6D37-4CAB-BAD0-8833FE36F047

• VictoryinJesus
• Nov 26, 2021
• 6

I agree with you about the fruits . but that has naught to do with the womens hair given her as a covering .
Though it IS tied into what is occuring right now .

 

[Jay Ross]

What do the "locusts" in Revelation 9:3, 7-10 represent? Please provide scriptural reference-if possible-to support your responses. I know of scriptural references on this subject, but I am interested in other opinions.

To understand the locusts in Rev 9, we need to understand how the Locusts ended up in the Bottomless pit from which they rise up from for 5 months in which they were commanded to torment the men who do not have the seal of God.

Perhaps Isaiah 24:21-22 explains this?

Shalom

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not really; the Revelation 12:6 verse is pointing to the 1st half of Daniel's symbolic "one week". The latter half with the placing of the AOD idol in Jerusalem is when the "great tribulation" will begin, as per Jesus in His Olivet discourse (Matthew 24:15-21). The Revelation 12:7-9 war in Heaven when Satan and his angels are kicked down to the earth, and then goes after the symbolic woman, that is about the latter half of the "one week", and is when the AOD will be setup. Revelation 12:11 about those who overcame him by The Blood of The Lamb (Jesus) is about the dragon's persecution of some of Christ's Church after he is booted down to this earth for the end. That mention of "short time" in Revelation 12:12 he knows he has is pointing to the shortened time Lord Jesus said He shortened the tribulation to.

Who do you think is the woman? Are you saying the great tribulation is 3.5 years, even though the Antichrist is making war for 7 years?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I agree with you about the fruits . but that has naught to do with the womens hair given her as a covering .
Though it IS tied into what is occuring right now .

what did you mean then by the woman’s hair is given her as a covering? What was your line of thought there that caused you to bring it up as important (only trying to understand what you were thinking there)?