Do you think those who believed the May 21st rapture learned anything, and might now really get into God's Word for theirselves, and start watching the real signs He gave?
No May 21 Rapture, What Now?
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goodshepard55
New Member
Nope...not really...for we knew it was a lie and you can not scare people to Jesus...if someone does..it will be a blessing...but most people will think they still have time to accept Him....but then again I could be wrong...
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Nah, as soon as the cognitive dissidence becomes unbearable, all the Camping believers will accept any excuse he offers.
th1b.taylor
Active Member
I also would like to think that they will begin to study and to seek the face of God but that would mean that they have cast off their fantasy world and that is not likely.
tomwebster
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Choir Loft
The problem in logic isn't the signs, it's the seasons.
Mr. Camping focused all his limited brain power on analyzing the signs and their apparent placement in an erroneous sequence of events. When anyone begins to study the basic prophecies of Daniel, Ezekiel, Jesus and the book of Revelation they immediately discover a problem with chronology.
It's written that way for a reason.
Man is lord of nature, but God is lord of history. Somewhere it says that Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. That means He directs the unfolding of history - NOT MANKIND.
Our King of Kings once said that the specific chronology of His second coming was hidden knowledge. When He was asked a specific question about dates and times, He gave a real specific answer. No proverbs, no metaphors, no fancy word pictures just a straight answer. That's why the prophecies are written like that.
We are encouraged, however, to watch the seasons. Everyone seems to feel that the season is near and most will tell you that it isn't quite yet. It certainly won't be this year or this season.
Soon, though. Even Mr. Camping, if he's still around, will be surprised.
That was another little item Jesus told us about.
Surprise.
goodshepard55
New Member
Ahh...but we do know He is closer today than He was on the 21st.....The day draws closer...but I do like surprises.....it will be a big surprise when people see Him coming in the clouds....for many that is...I do not think we will be too surprised....and rjp...awesome post
I think it probable that events like these happen as a lesson to the Body of Christ to stay in His Word. Those who put their trust in The LORD and not man already knew the May 21st thing was a test upon those who fall to put their trust somewhere else. Hard lesson for them, but if they don't learn from it, their next lesson may be harder.
Can't agree with all that, for you're actually espousing a false idea that God didn't give for His servants to know the signs of the end, and their chronological order. For Christ's Body, we ARE to know those signs and recognize their chronology. It is only hidden for those who are not watching. The only way any of Christ's servants could be confused about them is from listening to other things instead of staying in God's Word with understanding.
1Thes 5:1-10
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Apostle Paul said he had no need to write to them about "the times and the seasons" of Christ's coming, because..., they ALREADY knew about them. In other words, they already knew what "times and the seasons" to be watching.
God gave a whole lot of signs to watch for in His OT prophets about the day of The Lord Paul mentioned there. Our Lord's Book of Revelation was given to even 'reveal' those signs, laying them bare so we could understand them.
Paul is actually pointing to a big volume of Scripture with that "times and the seasons" idea connected with that "day of the Lord" pointer. If he saw no reason to repeat that volume of Scripture to them, then he certainly didn't need to go into more detail for us who come later. It's because it's understood that we should have already studied it from the Old Testament prophets as they had.
3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
That's a huge sign Apostle Paul pulled from the OT prophets about the end days just prior to Christ's return. The OT prophets covered that sign when the deceived will believe in a fake "Peace and safety", just prior to Christ coming to destroy the evil off this earth. They covered that "travail upon a woman with child" idea also, which is where Paul is also pulling from. How is it that some in Christ's Body don't know about all that?
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
They were not in darkness concerning the day that Christ will come "as a thief". In Rev.16:15 Christ warned in between the 6th and 7th Vial about His coming as a thief, and for His servants to keep their garments lest they appear naked in shame for not staying on watch. That's another warning like this one Paul gave.
Notice how Paul links the idea of one who is in 'darkness' is who Christ's coming will be to 'as a thief'.
Knowing the "times and the seasons" thus means to be on watch for the signs in God's Word that lead up to Christ's return. And of course, that means knowing about the chronological events in their order given in God's Word. That is how Christ's coming will NOT be 'as a thief' to His faithful saints.
Just because some believers are mixed up and confused about "the times and the seasons" in God's Word does NOT mean others of His were not given to know them. Paul proves there that 'we', the Body of Christ, are... to know, otherwise it means being in 'darkness' with those who travail as a woman with child.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Let us watch, and be sober? Can't get any more clear that Paul was warning us to stay on watch about those "times and the seasons" of Christ's return.
tomwebster
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In everything that I have read, Christians are missing the big opportunity. Campings false teaching was accompanied by his 100 million dollar ad campaign that had people everywhere talking about it.
We need to seize opportunities like this to be faithful witnesses. It is not every day that we have an open door like this where the world starts the conversation. We need to be prepared to jump in and direct them toward Christ.
We need to seize opportunities like this to be faithful witnesses. It is not every day that we have an open door like this where the world starts the conversation. We need to be prepared to jump in and direct them toward Christ.
That would only be IF they allowed themselves to hear first.
Many folks on the Pre-trib doctrines are not going to stop believing in it just because of Camping's foolishness. And those who seek proofs of God through supposed TV miracle side-shows won't stop supporting those pre-trib outlets either. Camping's whole basis was the Pre-trib doctrines; those are the ideas that led him to think a rapture was going to happen in the first place.
Aww too bad I was really looking forward to seeing our Jesus. I had my go Jesus giant foam finger on and my camera ready so I could pown atheists for the rest of history.
The mainstream belief about the rapture is that a large group of Christians will physically, and all at the same time, disappear and be lifted up to the higher atmosphere to meet the lord literally in the sky.
I will endeavor to show that this is false using scriptural support, and then I'd like to share with you what I believe is the true interpretation. Please let me know what you think about my argument thanks. I'm trying to get good feedbacks.
From my readings of verses concerning the rapture I will infer that this mainstream belief most likely originated out of interpretations of the following 2 verses:
Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
1 Thessalonians 4:17 "17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
If we look at the first verse in context we will be able to quickly see that it is not referring to the rapture, but to something very different. The point of confusion is the word "taken", let's see what Jesus meant by "taken". Backtracking 3 verses "37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Therefore we need not guess for the meaning of the verb to take, Jesus gave us the meaning, he used it in verse 39 to describe being destroyed, being "taken by the grim reaper" if you will, by the flood. In the same way, the Great Tribulation will be such that two men will be the the field working, one will just fall dead (probably out of fatigue) and the other is left to clean up the corpse.
As for the second verse in Thessalonians, I will demonstrate that Paul was not being literal with the words "clouds" and "air", because, putting science/common sense aside (there's virtually nothing up there), scripture does not allow us the possibility of 'being with the lord FOREVER' in the literal air/sky/atmosphere.
Isaiah 65:
"17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new EARTH: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.20There shall be no more thence an INFANT of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21And they shall BUILD HOUSES, and inhabit them; and they shall plant VINEYARDS, and eat the FRUIT of them. 22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not PLANT, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands...25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
From this passage we see clearly that our eternal abode is of a very Earthly nature. Not only did the Lord use the word EARTH, he said we will give birth to infants, he said we will build houses, we will plant vineyards, eat fruits, wolves and lambs shall feed together, and the lion shall eat STRAW, and finally we see the image of a "holy MOUNTAIN", a moutain is clearly something very Earthly.
Isaiah 35:10
"and those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away."
Jeremiah 31:12
"They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the LORD— the grain, the new wine and the olive oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more."
According to the above 2 verses our eternal abode is on Mount Zion, there will be olives, grain, wine, and flocks of animals there, this is not somewhere in the sky. Our eternal abode is on Mount Zion, which over a period of 1000 years will grow into the New Jerusalem: Daniel 2:35 "...But the rock [mount zion] that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. [New Jerusalem]"
So since we cannot be two places at once physically, we cannot both be in the sky for eternity and also be on mount zion/new jerusalem for eternity, it must be true that the sky and cloud Paul referred to did not literally mean the physical atmosphere.
This is what I think it means. It is symbolism for a holy place, a spiritual plane. Remember God lives in Heaven, God is also omnipresent, therefore Heaven must also be omnipresent. When we become fully one with the Holy Spirit, we become one with God, and we thus live in Heaven (spiritually speaking), then everything we do in the physical 3D reality comes "out of heaven". Therefore this is how Paul is also right, how we can both be in the sky/cloud/heaven forever (spiritually) and also be on Mount Zion forever (physically).
The understanding that the rapture does not mean to be lifted up out of the tribulation and into the sky by the Lord is crucial, because now we need to be responsible; before it was like ok all I need to do is to read the bible, pray, be a very good christian, and God will come for me when the time comes, there's nothing physical that I must do.
Now a very key problem faces us that we need to deal with which before with the vanishing theory we could turn our backs to, and that is what happens when the mark of the beast is instituted?
Revelations 13: "15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark...."
What will you do when the mark of the beast is instituted? How will you get food or water or shelter when you can't buy or sell?
"as in the days of Noah so shall the last days be"
In the days of Noah there was an Ark that provided safety for God's people, now we as God's people, as present day Noah, must also prepare an Ark. The church must prepare.
And here lies the true meaning of the rapture.
Jeremiah 4:6
"Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction.”
Isaiah 35:10
"and those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away."
Jeremiah 50:5
"They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten."
Isaiah 66:8
"Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."
The NEW ZION is the new Ark! Going to Zion IS the rapture! It is where the returned Jesus himself will be!
Where is this new Zion? lets agree that it is not in the Middle East, because clearly here God says it will be a place to flee to during the Great tribulation and the Middle East will be a place to free away from during that time. Revelations 12: "14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach"
During the Apostle John's time, when he wrote these words, Europe, Asia, and parts of Africa have all been discovered, are all on the map, the only place that's not on the map, the place that can rightfully be called the wilderness, is the Americas. This is further supported by the part of the verse that says the woman [the real Christians] will be "given wings of a great eagle", the cover picture of an American passport is "a great eagle"! Also the United States is the country right now with the greatest porportion of Christians, the Americans will not allow the mark of the beast to be instituted in their country. It will mostly affect Europe, Asia, and Africa.
So then how is this Zion going to come about?
Revelations 21: "2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, PREPARED AS A BRIDE beautifully dressed for her husband."
Who is the Husband in this case? I hope we can all agree that this means the returned Jesus Christ. It says clearly that this HOly City must be "PREPARED",but by whom? Well definitely not by Jesus physically beacuse he is the husband. In the Jewish tradition preparation of the wedding feast is the responsibility of the bride and her family, so here's the answer--Christians would have to prepare it. Ofcourse we're talking about Christians who have become fully matured and one with the spirit so that everything that comes out of the work of their hands comes out of "heaven" (the meaning of heaven per our discussion above). THe work will be inspired by God, but it will physically be done by Christians.
Not only do some Christians have to prepare Zion, Christian churches need to prepare other methods of supporting its members for when the time comes when the Mark of the Beast is instututed and they cannot buy or sell (because Zion alone, at least initially, will not be able to support 2 billion people). This can be in the form of buying land and planting crops, making clothes, miking cows, making honey, and other business work.
Jesus actually explained very plainly that this needs to be done. Matthew 24 verse 45 and onwards: "whosoever is the faithful and wise servant whom the lord put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food AT THE PROPER TIME? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns." The faithful and wise servant are the elders of the church. Jesus before that described how horrid the tribulation will be, and then he said he put some servants in charge of making this tribulation less painful for his christians.
What happens when these leaders of the church fail to provide for their members for the tribulation? I think Jesus explained that very plainly too.
"48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Anyway if there's a will there's a way. The problem right now many people are living in the false belief that God will come and lift them out of the path of the hurricane that's coming, so they can't, or won't, even respond to what's clearly coming. so that's why I feel a big burden in sharing what I think is the truth so that more people can know about it and respond to it.
Appreciate any input, corrections, and instructions
I will endeavor to show that this is false using scriptural support, and then I'd like to share with you what I believe is the true interpretation. Please let me know what you think about my argument thanks. I'm trying to get good feedbacks.
From my readings of verses concerning the rapture I will infer that this mainstream belief most likely originated out of interpretations of the following 2 verses:
Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
1 Thessalonians 4:17 "17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
If we look at the first verse in context we will be able to quickly see that it is not referring to the rapture, but to something very different. The point of confusion is the word "taken", let's see what Jesus meant by "taken". Backtracking 3 verses "37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and TOOK them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Therefore we need not guess for the meaning of the verb to take, Jesus gave us the meaning, he used it in verse 39 to describe being destroyed, being "taken by the grim reaper" if you will, by the flood. In the same way, the Great Tribulation will be such that two men will be the the field working, one will just fall dead (probably out of fatigue) and the other is left to clean up the corpse.
As for the second verse in Thessalonians, I will demonstrate that Paul was not being literal with the words "clouds" and "air", because, putting science/common sense aside (there's virtually nothing up there), scripture does not allow us the possibility of 'being with the lord FOREVER' in the literal air/sky/atmosphere.
Isaiah 65:
"17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new EARTH: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.20There shall be no more thence an INFANT of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. 21And they shall BUILD HOUSES, and inhabit them; and they shall plant VINEYARDS, and eat the FRUIT of them. 22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not PLANT, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands...25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD."
From this passage we see clearly that our eternal abode is of a very Earthly nature. Not only did the Lord use the word EARTH, he said we will give birth to infants, he said we will build houses, we will plant vineyards, eat fruits, wolves and lambs shall feed together, and the lion shall eat STRAW, and finally we see the image of a "holy MOUNTAIN", a moutain is clearly something very Earthly.
Isaiah 35:10
"and those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away."
Jeremiah 31:12
"They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the LORD— the grain, the new wine and the olive oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more."
According to the above 2 verses our eternal abode is on Mount Zion, there will be olives, grain, wine, and flocks of animals there, this is not somewhere in the sky. Our eternal abode is on Mount Zion, which over a period of 1000 years will grow into the New Jerusalem: Daniel 2:35 "...But the rock [mount zion] that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. [New Jerusalem]"
So since we cannot be two places at once physically, we cannot both be in the sky for eternity and also be on mount zion/new jerusalem for eternity, it must be true that the sky and cloud Paul referred to did not literally mean the physical atmosphere.
This is what I think it means. It is symbolism for a holy place, a spiritual plane. Remember God lives in Heaven, God is also omnipresent, therefore Heaven must also be omnipresent. When we become fully one with the Holy Spirit, we become one with God, and we thus live in Heaven (spiritually speaking), then everything we do in the physical 3D reality comes "out of heaven". Therefore this is how Paul is also right, how we can both be in the sky/cloud/heaven forever (spiritually) and also be on Mount Zion forever (physically).
The understanding that the rapture does not mean to be lifted up out of the tribulation and into the sky by the Lord is crucial, because now we need to be responsible; before it was like ok all I need to do is to read the bible, pray, be a very good christian, and God will come for me when the time comes, there's nothing physical that I must do.
Now a very key problem faces us that we need to deal with which before with the vanishing theory we could turn our backs to, and that is what happens when the mark of the beast is instituted?
Revelations 13: "15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark...."
What will you do when the mark of the beast is instituted? How will you get food or water or shelter when you can't buy or sell?
"as in the days of Noah so shall the last days be"
In the days of Noah there was an Ark that provided safety for God's people, now we as God's people, as present day Noah, must also prepare an Ark. The church must prepare.
And here lies the true meaning of the rapture.
Jeremiah 4:6
"Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction.”
Isaiah 35:10
"and those the LORD has rescued will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away."
Jeremiah 50:5
"They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten."
Isaiah 66:8
"Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."
The NEW ZION is the new Ark! Going to Zion IS the rapture! It is where the returned Jesus himself will be!
Where is this new Zion? lets agree that it is not in the Middle East, because clearly here God says it will be a place to flee to during the Great tribulation and the Middle East will be a place to free away from during that time. Revelations 12: "14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach"
During the Apostle John's time, when he wrote these words, Europe, Asia, and parts of Africa have all been discovered, are all on the map, the only place that's not on the map, the place that can rightfully be called the wilderness, is the Americas. This is further supported by the part of the verse that says the woman [the real Christians] will be "given wings of a great eagle", the cover picture of an American passport is "a great eagle"! Also the United States is the country right now with the greatest porportion of Christians, the Americans will not allow the mark of the beast to be instituted in their country. It will mostly affect Europe, Asia, and Africa.
So then how is this Zion going to come about?
Revelations 21: "2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, PREPARED AS A BRIDE beautifully dressed for her husband."
Who is the Husband in this case? I hope we can all agree that this means the returned Jesus Christ. It says clearly that this HOly City must be "PREPARED",but by whom? Well definitely not by Jesus physically beacuse he is the husband. In the Jewish tradition preparation of the wedding feast is the responsibility of the bride and her family, so here's the answer--Christians would have to prepare it. Ofcourse we're talking about Christians who have become fully matured and one with the spirit so that everything that comes out of the work of their hands comes out of "heaven" (the meaning of heaven per our discussion above). THe work will be inspired by God, but it will physically be done by Christians.
Not only do some Christians have to prepare Zion, Christian churches need to prepare other methods of supporting its members for when the time comes when the Mark of the Beast is instututed and they cannot buy or sell (because Zion alone, at least initially, will not be able to support 2 billion people). This can be in the form of buying land and planting crops, making clothes, miking cows, making honey, and other business work.
Jesus actually explained very plainly that this needs to be done. Matthew 24 verse 45 and onwards: "whosoever is the faithful and wise servant whom the lord put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food AT THE PROPER TIME? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns." The faithful and wise servant are the elders of the church. Jesus before that described how horrid the tribulation will be, and then he said he put some servants in charge of making this tribulation less painful for his christians.
What happens when these leaders of the church fail to provide for their members for the tribulation? I think Jesus explained that very plainly too.
"48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Anyway if there's a will there's a way. The problem right now many people are living in the false belief that God will come and lift them out of the path of the hurricane that's coming, so they can't, or won't, even respond to what's clearly coming. so that's why I feel a big burden in sharing what I think is the truth so that more people can know about it and respond to it.
Appreciate any input, corrections, and instructions
The two in the field, two at the mill, one taken and the other left, is concerning spiritual destruction through deception. At the end of Luke 17 Christ's disciples asked Him 'where' the one would be taken to, when Jesus answered wheresoever the body (carcase in Matt.24:28) is, that's where the eagles will be gathered. Eagles don't go after what is dead, but scavengers like vultures do. It's all a metaphor for the spiritually dead who will be deceived; they will gather to where the vultures are that are disguised as eagles. It's about fleeing to the "another Jesus", and not waiting for Christ's return. It's related to the lord returning to find the good householder still giving the meat in due season, i.e., still working in the field. That's what we want to be found doing when Christ Jesus does return, still working for Him in the field, doing His work. It is a sign of still waiting for Christ's true return, and not falling away to the false messiah that will come first.
What you call the "NEW ZION" will be in the middleast. Per Zech.14, Christ returns to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from. And that's where His saints will flee to be with Him. The 'harpazo' involves the change at the twinkling of an eye to our "spiritual body", if we're still alive on earth at Christ's coming.
The Rev.12 fleeing into the wilderness for 1260 days applied to the west like the Americas, is an interpretation that comes from those who apply the 1260 days as 'years', instead of days like it says. I believe it is about the first part of the tribulation time, a time when a temple is being built in Jerusalem and sacrifices started again, the period just prior to false messiah ending the sacrifice and placing the abomination idol in its place. It is the second mention of 1260 days in that same chapter when the dragon is cast down to the earth, and goes after the symbolic woman using a flood coming out of his mouth (meaning lies that cause deception, the very matter of the two in the field, with the one taken (dead carcase) to where the eagles are gathered).
If you'll look closely, Revelation is speaking of two symbolic marriages with the 'bride' idea. One is the marriage to The Lamb, and the other is a marriage of Jerusalem to God. See Ezek.16 for how God feels about Jerusalem. Compare with 2 Cor.11 and Isa.54.
There won't be any separate physical place on earth to hide from it. Any Christian group that goes off into the tundra or desert to try and hide during the coming tribulation will become an easy target for discovery, via satellite. It'll then be easier to gather them up to captivity in the camps. Those who wait for Christ's coming have a job to do for Him. And it requires that they are delivered up to give His Testimony by The Holy Spirit, towards the end of the tribulation. It will be better to just barter for goods, and mix among the people until that delivering up.
That's about those who fail to watch the signs leading up to Christ's return. The result it brings is deception in not knowing the proper time of Christ's return. And by not knowing, one becomes deceived into accepting the first messiah that comes in place of Christ Jesus. Apostle Paul referred to a spiritual state he called being 'drunken in the night', which comes from the OT prophets. So that group our Lord is speaking about that don't watch, He compares to a drunken man that is not aware of the thief that breaks in, for Christ said His coming would be 'as a thief in the night', and it's for the deceived, not for those who stay 'sober' and watching.
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