HERESY?

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace The Lord Jesus is indeed not a created being; He is God incarnate. The One Who was given (John 3.16) was God's Son already.

Good way of saying it:
HE WAS GOD'S SON ALREADY...

 

[GodsGrace]

Wrangler is full of opinion. He is exhausting....

LOL
Yes.
But he does know all the fallacies,
and I think we've used each and every one!
(according to him).

 

[GodsGrace]

Exhausted? We each see images in our own way based on our life experiences so I'm seeing the image as her being exhausted! Did I get it right?

Yes!
I'm exhausted with Christians that don't know any church history
and don't realize that we each cannot make up our very own definition of CHRISTIANITY.
Uffa.

 

[farouk]

Good way of saying it:
HE WAS GOD'S SON ALREADY...

The Deity of Christ and God in Three Persons are really clear in Scripture: and this is what counts...

 

[Grailhunter]

@GodsGrace The Lord Jesus is indeed not a created being; He is God incarnate. The One Who was given (John 3.16) was God's Son already.

Biblical understanding. Observation.
When a person picks up a Bible they need to consider that there have been over 30,000 denominations try to understand the Bible and most have failed in one way or another. Either they could not understand the scriptures or they applied Christianity in ways that are straight up wrong. So if you are smart, you should be concerned why that is?

Detailed points usually go over people's head. But this point is simple and I will keep reiterating for those that have the intelligence to understand. Words and phrases that do not appear in the Bible should be looked at as very suspicious. Why would someone want to start a belief that does not appear in the scriptures? Someone wants to start a catchy phrase or buzzword to see if a belief will catch on.

Hear you use the phrase "created being" that is something that some one uses to object to the belief that Christ did not always exist. I have yet to see anyone believe that Christ was created.....you are arguing against something that is not there.

Then you use the word "incarnate" another word that is not in the Bible. So far we are looking at a belief system of clichés, not a belief based on the scriptures.

What the Bible says and what is describes is that the true Son of God....a God....was conceived in the womb of a woman and then born of a woman.....All things being normal....LOL....except the person causing the conception is God the Father and the baby is a God, the Son of God the Father.

Simple words and descriptions Christ was born....no one is talking about created. God impregnated a woman...that is not created. And that is the way God described it....Father and Son...God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son....most people understand what begotten means.

Christ is not just another God. The concept that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, one that He begot with a woman....gets lost if Christ is just another God. Or if Christ is God the Father and Holy Spirit, quite the conundrum. A God... Yahweh gave up a Son that He loved....a sacrifice for the world....a sacrifice to save us. Yahweh loved His Son and His Son loved Yahweh and Yahweh loved us and Yeshua loved us that is why they did what they did. That sacrifice was born of a woman and the word incarnate does not appear in the scriptures.

Now some believe, for various reasons that Christ and the Holy Spirit were part of a trio in the Old Testament. Now if they were they were a very silent trio and Yahweh was adamantly against that belief....stating He was the only God, the only name, and no one like Him and He never referred to Himself as a trio. I have addressed this in Grailhunter's Corner....So if there is a debate on it....at least stick to what the scriptures say or admit you have your own beliefs that are not based on the Bible.

 

[Moriah's Song]

one logical fallacy after another

That's another "oximoron". Logical and fallacy are opposites.

 

[Enoch111]

there have been over 30,000 denominations try to understand the Bible

Make that simply "over 30". But it is the cults that promote heresies and then double down on all their nonsense.

 

[Wrangler]

It's not up to you, or @Wrangler or @Aunty Jane to make up your own idea of what Christianity is.

I agree. Neither is it up to you to equate trinitarianism with Christianity.

 

[Grailhunter]

Make that simply "over 30". But it is the cults that promote heresies and then double down on all their nonsense.

Whatever. This is something people can look up....some say over 50,000 worldwide. I have personally counted over 30,000 so easy to look up to know the truth...and of course there is more to the story.

Defining cults is important
And beliefs based on clichés can be heresies. Theologies built on words and phrases not in the scriptures.

 

[Marymog]

Ahh, I get it,

You were told what we believe. You have never actually studied it.

I love it when people come in and try to tell me what I believe and where my belief came from. Only to find out they only know what they were told by others.

I used to be like you, Blindly led by people I look up to. Pastors or priests or the people who were elders in my denomination. Much like MaryMog here. But I got out on my own, and I started to actually study. And found out a some of what I was taught, or thought I was taught was wrong. And instead of putting my hands up and fighting it, I dug deeper. I also had a few friends that would not let me dig in, they kept at me, kept pushing, (of course its alot easier in person, when you can all sit and open the word) And I finally found the truth, I finally did what we are told to do. Study to shew ourselves approved. Test each spirit......

Hebrews 13:7, 17
1 Peter 5:5

2 Peter 3:16

 

[michaelvpardo]

Not sure where this should be...
the study of God seemed appropriate (maybe).

Every denomination has some teaching or doctrine that we would not agree with.

How would you explain the difference between an
incorrect teaching
and
a heretical teaching...?

IOW,,,when does an incorrect teaching become heretical?

Thanks.

A definition of "heresy" is subjectively defined according to accepted doctrine, but considering what the Apostle Paul taught it would seem that heresy, strictly speaking, is any other gospel than his. He wrote quite a bit about those individuals distorting the gospel or preaching another one, calling them accursed and abandoning them to judgment.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:9
This would generally apply to all the cults, but specifically to their "evangelists" or recruiters.

 

[michaelvpardo]

So that’s basically up to you and your tolerance level. If you have high tolerance for a person who’s screaming in your face and being completely evil to you and calling you all kinds of names while claiming that HE is right …. Then God has blessed you with a high tolerance level.

I would think being placed upon a rack that pulls your bones out of joint, having your limbs sawn off, being burnt with red hot irons, or simply imolated on a steak, yet keeping your faith would demonstrate real tolerance. However our society at large has grown soft, thin skinned, and easily offended.

 

[michaelvpardo]

We start letting in leaven and overlooking it for the sake of hugs and fellowship and we aint gonna have a church left .

I'm pretty sure that God, knowing the end from the beginning, anticipated exactly what we see in the church and Jesus suggested as much Himself.
33 Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.” Matthew 13:33
This parable was traditionally interpreted as a good expansion of the influence of the church, but reality contradicts that interpretation as well as scripture itself and leaven never represents something good in the spiritual sense when comparing scripture with scripture.

We also have this very sad question placed by Christ shortly before His arrest: "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

 

[GodsGrace]

A definition of "heresy" is subjectively defined according to accepted doctrine, but considering what the Apostle Paul taught it would seem that heresy, strictly speaking, is any other gospel than his. He wrote quite a bit about those individuals distorting the gospel or preaching another one, calling them accursed and abandoning them to judgment.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:9
This would generally apply to all the cults, but specifically to their "evangelists" or recruiters.

I agree totally.
Another gospel would certainly be a heresy.
And what is the gospel that is the correct gospel?
I proffer that it would be the gospel that is accepted by mainline Christianity
and which agrees with what the Apostolic Fathers taught right after Jesus' death and resurrection.

 

[Wrangler]

I've answered. It's just your questions are nothing but forms of attack, one logical fallacy after another. Yet, you do not answer my questions.

Admit there is no trinity verse like above in Scripture? Why trinitarians make this absent doctrine their central principle, to violate the 1C?

LOL

Revealing trinitarianism is a mocking spirit.

Again with my question you have yet to answer:

We know Jesus is not God because Jesus died.

1. Why did the resurrected Jesus say he was going to his God @ John 20:17 if he were God?
2. Why did Jesus say his Father is the only true God @ John 17:3 if he were God?
3. Why did the resurrected Jesus, in heaven, given all authority, receive a revelation from God @ Rev 1:1, if he were God?

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree. Neither is it up to you to equate trinitarianism with Christianity.

Simple question:
Do you believe Jesus is God?

 

[Wrangler]

You are seriously wrong Wrangler....

Strong's 1080 - begotten (γεννάω)
c. after Psalm 2:7, it is used of God making Christ his son

From Merriam's

beget
verb
Save Word
To save this word, you'll need to log in.

Log In

be·get | \ bi-ˈget , bē- \
begot\ bi-ˈgät , bē- \ also begat\ bi-ˈgat , bē- \; begotten\ bi-ˈgä-tᵊn , bē- \ or begot; begetting
Definition of beget


transitive verb

1: to procreate as the father

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree. Neither is it up to you to equate trinitarianism with Christianity.

Did I say it was up to me?
Do you even read my posts before you comment?

 

[Wrangler]

That's another "oximoron". Logical and fallacy are opposites.

Exactly. Your 'rationalizations' are opposite of logic as they invoke logical fallacies. Look it up.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm pretty sure that God, knowing the end from the beginning, anticipated exactly what we see in the church and Jesus suggested as much Himself.
33 Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.” Matthew 13:33
This parable was traditionally interpreted as a good expansion of the influence of the church, but reality contradicts that interpretation as well as scripture itself and leaven never represents something good in the spiritual sense when comparing scripture with scripture.

We also have this very sad question placed by Christ shortly before His arrest: "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

Again i say if we start letting leaven in for the sake of hugs and unity we are gonna destroy our church .
Now paul had to rebuke the corinthians for allow leaven to remain . What do you really think paul would have said
about two gay men that are married , claiming JESUS and sitting in a church .
HE would tell us what i am about to remind us all of , GET THEM OUT , My call would be the same as pauls
Deliver them over unto satan that perhaps the soul can be saved in the day of JESUS .
Cast out the leaven . We do it for the sake of the church and we do it in hopes they will repent .