What are pan-Christians?
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google supplied two meanings.
A middle ages movement to unite the nations in to one state with one religeon.
and
a 20th century movement to unity all the brnches of Christianity into one.
A middle ages movement to unite the nations in to one state with one religeon.
and
a 20th century movement to unity all the brnches of Christianity into one.
It is basically the universal (spiritual) body of Christ, the church of all believers a heresy that is condemned by the apostolic authority of holy mother church!
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I only heard of "Pan-Tribulation Rapture" theology ... rather than holding a firm conviction that we will be "raptured" before the "great tribulation" (Pre-Trib) or holding a firm conviction that we will be "raptured" after the "great tribulation" (Post-Trib), some are unsure and hold firmly to the belief that whatever God decides ... it will all "Pan out in the end." (Pan-Trib) ;)
atpollard
Well-Known Member
So you will not meet Him in the air ... you will wait for Jesus to make it to the ground? [LOL] :)
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The rapture is a modern innovation of the Pentecostal spooks and kooks of the burned over district
Oceanprayers
Active Member
no it’s the false doctrine of all believers are the church
believers are not Christians
Faith and baptism make us Christians
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36/38
Oceanprayers
Active Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I don't suppose faith has got anything to do with believing???
atpollard
Well-Known Member
GotQuestions:
What is Christian pantheism? | GotQuestions.org
"What is Christian pantheism?
Christian pantheism is an attempt to connect the Bible with the false idea that everything that exists is, itself, actually God. This is the central idea of pantheism: that “God is everything, and everything is God.” However, the Bible clearly speaks of God as something separate from His creation. References to “Christian pantheism” are as self-contradictory as speaking of “square circles.” The two ideas are inherently incompatible. As a result, most attempts at interpreting Scripture to support pantheism involve dismissing that very Scripture in some way. This either happens through questioning the accuracy of the Bible or taking verses completely out of context.
Pantheism declares that only God exists; everything is God. This blatantly contradicts many core concepts presented in the Bible. God explicitly says He is not the same thing as man (Numbers 23:19), the universe is a created thing (Genesis 1:1), man is made in His image (Genesis 1:27), and so forth. Scripture describes man and God speaking to each other (Genesis 3:9–10; Exodus 3:4–5), God judging man (Isaiah 2:4; 33:22), and God separating Himself from certain beings (Revelation 20:12–15). The entire concept of prayer implies there is an “other” to hear the prayer (Matthew 6:9). This is why true pantheists do not pray; they meditate, since pantheism denies there is an “other” with whom to communicate.
Those attempting to defend Christian pantheism take certain Bible verses badly out of context. Almost all such errors focus on the idea of God’s Spirit indwelling man. For example, Galatians 2:20 speaks of Christ living “in” us. First Corinthians 3:16–17 refers to man’s body as the “temple of God.” First John 3:24 mentions the Spirit “abiding” in believers. These verses, according to the pantheist, show that God and man are one and the same.
However, both the specific contexts of these verses and the overall context of the Bible show this view to be false. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not an obscure, poetic metaphor for pantheism. If Scripture intended to teach that “all is God, and God is all,” it would not reference concepts such as salvation, sin, prayer, or judgment, all of which imply an absolute, objective difference between two non-identical things.
Scripture is clear: God is not the same as His creation. He is certainly not the same as man. Obscure or not, Christian pantheism is ultimately another example of poor Bible interpretation and even worse logic."
Christian pantheism is an attempt to connect the Bible with the false idea that everything that exists is, itself, actually God. This is the central idea of pantheism: that “God is everything, and everything is God.” However, the Bible clearly speaks of God as something separate from His creation. References to “Christian pantheism” are as self-contradictory as speaking of “square circles.” The two ideas are inherently incompatible. As a result, most attempts at interpreting Scripture to support pantheism involve dismissing that very Scripture in some way. This either happens through questioning the accuracy of the Bible or taking verses completely out of context.
Pantheism declares that only God exists; everything is God. This blatantly contradicts many core concepts presented in the Bible. God explicitly says He is not the same thing as man (Numbers 23:19), the universe is a created thing (Genesis 1:1), man is made in His image (Genesis 1:27), and so forth. Scripture describes man and God speaking to each other (Genesis 3:9–10; Exodus 3:4–5), God judging man (Isaiah 2:4; 33:22), and God separating Himself from certain beings (Revelation 20:12–15). The entire concept of prayer implies there is an “other” to hear the prayer (Matthew 6:9). This is why true pantheists do not pray; they meditate, since pantheism denies there is an “other” with whom to communicate.
Those attempting to defend Christian pantheism take certain Bible verses badly out of context. Almost all such errors focus on the idea of God’s Spirit indwelling man. For example, Galatians 2:20 speaks of Christ living “in” us. First Corinthians 3:16–17 refers to man’s body as the “temple of God.” First John 3:24 mentions the Spirit “abiding” in believers. These verses, according to the pantheist, show that God and man are one and the same.
However, both the specific contexts of these verses and the overall context of the Bible show this view to be false. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not an obscure, poetic metaphor for pantheism. If Scripture intended to teach that “all is God, and God is all,” it would not reference concepts such as salvation, sin, prayer, or judgment, all of which imply an absolute, objective difference between two non-identical things.
Scripture is clear: God is not the same as His creation. He is certainly not the same as man. Obscure or not, Christian pantheism is ultimately another example of poor Bible interpretation and even worse logic."
What is Christian pantheism? | GotQuestions.org
atpollard
Well-Known Member
An example from "World Pantheism"
[IMHO: complete drivel from one without "ears to hear".]
From this they conclude the following "pantheistic" beliefs:
If that sounds like YOUR Christianity and the God of YOUR Bible, then we will pray for you.
St Jerome at Prayer, Hieronymus Bosch
Most versions of Christianity are panentheistic. They believe in a God who is present and active in this world, a God who can dwell in each person if they accept the grace of the Holy Spirit. Yet he is also a God who transcends the world, who passes far beyond the material universe and far beyond our comprehension.
It is very doubtful whether Jesus himself had any pantheistic leanings. In all probability he accepted the prevalent Jewish millenarianism of his day. God lived in heaven apart from the world, though he could act in the world whenever he chose. One day He would destroy the present earth and replace it with a transformed earth in which the Jewish nation would be resurrected and restored.
Christian pantheism derives from two gospel roots.
The first is St Paul.
Paul's famous statement to the Athenians:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being
is strongly pantheistic, though it appears to be not a statement of his own, but a quotation from a Greek poet, Aratus, probably influenced by the Stoic Cleanthes, who was a pantheist. In his own words Paul implies something similar when he says of Christ-God: "For by him all things were created … He is before all things and in him all things hold together. [Colossians 1.16-17]
Paul's position might be called selective panentheism. God is active in the world, sustains the world, and in the case of those who follow Christ he enters into their mind and body and in some sense becomes one with them. Paul uses the expression "in Christ" no less than 165 times in his letters (if we include "in the Lord" and "in him.") Sometimes "in Christ" refers to people who belong to the Christian community of believers, or who died as Christians. Sometimes it refers to the afterlife in which they will be with Christ, or surrounded by Christ. But almost always it means that Christ is in some way inside Paul or the believer; or they are inside Christ; or both. At times Paul implies that there is almost a bodily incorporation of Christians into Christ.
The second root of Christian pantheism lies in the idea of the Holy Spirit. In Acts (ii.1-3), this fills the apostles and gives them the power to speak in tongues. The Gospel of John and the Epistle of John both extend the idea of the Holy Spirit, so that it will fill all Christian believers and guide them. Later theology identified the Holy Spirit as an integral part of the Trinity, and therefore part of God. If the Holy Spirit entered each believer, this meant that God entered. Like Paul's position this too was a form of selective panentheism.
In these cases we are not talking about an expansive, world-affirming kind of pantheism - quite the opposite. Both Paul and the Johannine material regard this earth and the physical body as inferior dross. When Paul speaks of the body as God's temple, he does not mean that the body should be worshipped and indulged - but rather that its "base" instincts and desires like sex and gluttony should be suppressed so as not to defile the temple.
Paul explicitly places the flesh in direct conflict with the spirit. He seeks to mortify the flesh - perhaps out of guilt for the physical suffering he caused while persecuting the Christians. Indeed it may be Paul's desire to mortify his own flesh that explains his attraction to the crucified Jesus.
Most versions of Christianity are panentheistic. They believe in a God who is present and active in this world, a God who can dwell in each person if they accept the grace of the Holy Spirit. Yet he is also a God who transcends the world, who passes far beyond the material universe and far beyond our comprehension.
It is very doubtful whether Jesus himself had any pantheistic leanings. In all probability he accepted the prevalent Jewish millenarianism of his day. God lived in heaven apart from the world, though he could act in the world whenever he chose. One day He would destroy the present earth and replace it with a transformed earth in which the Jewish nation would be resurrected and restored.
Christian pantheism derives from two gospel roots.
The first is St Paul.
Paul's famous statement to the Athenians:
For in him we live, and move, and have our being
is strongly pantheistic, though it appears to be not a statement of his own, but a quotation from a Greek poet, Aratus, probably influenced by the Stoic Cleanthes, who was a pantheist. In his own words Paul implies something similar when he says of Christ-God: "For by him all things were created … He is before all things and in him all things hold together. [Colossians 1.16-17]
Paul's position might be called selective panentheism. God is active in the world, sustains the world, and in the case of those who follow Christ he enters into their mind and body and in some sense becomes one with them. Paul uses the expression "in Christ" no less than 165 times in his letters (if we include "in the Lord" and "in him.") Sometimes "in Christ" refers to people who belong to the Christian community of believers, or who died as Christians. Sometimes it refers to the afterlife in which they will be with Christ, or surrounded by Christ. But almost always it means that Christ is in some way inside Paul or the believer; or they are inside Christ; or both. At times Paul implies that there is almost a bodily incorporation of Christians into Christ.
The second root of Christian pantheism lies in the idea of the Holy Spirit. In Acts (ii.1-3), this fills the apostles and gives them the power to speak in tongues. The Gospel of John and the Epistle of John both extend the idea of the Holy Spirit, so that it will fill all Christian believers and guide them. Later theology identified the Holy Spirit as an integral part of the Trinity, and therefore part of God. If the Holy Spirit entered each believer, this meant that God entered. Like Paul's position this too was a form of selective panentheism.
In these cases we are not talking about an expansive, world-affirming kind of pantheism - quite the opposite. Both Paul and the Johannine material regard this earth and the physical body as inferior dross. When Paul speaks of the body as God's temple, he does not mean that the body should be worshipped and indulged - but rather that its "base" instincts and desires like sex and gluttony should be suppressed so as not to defile the temple.
Paul explicitly places the flesh in direct conflict with the spirit. He seeks to mortify the flesh - perhaps out of guilt for the physical suffering he caused while persecuting the Christians. Indeed it may be Paul's desire to mortify his own flesh that explains his attraction to the crucified Jesus.
[IMHO: complete drivel from one without "ears to hear".]
From this they conclude the following "pantheistic" beliefs:
The Statement
- We revere and celebrate the Universe as the totality of being, past, present and future. It is self-organizing, ever-evolving and inexhaustibly diverse. Its overwhelming power, beauty and fundamental mystery compel the deepest human reverence and wonder.
- All matter, energy, and life are an interconnected unity of which we are an inseparable part. We rejoice in our existence and seek to participate ever more deeply in this unity through knowledge, celebration, meditation, empathy, love, ethical action and art.
- We are an integral part of Nature, which we should cherish, revere and preserve in all its magnificent beauty and diversity. We should strive to live in harmony with Nature locally and globally. We acknowledge the inherent value of all life, human and non-human, and strive to treat all living beings with compassion and respect.
- All humans are equal centers of awareness of the Universe and nature, and all deserve a life of equal dignity and mutual respect. To this end we support and work towards freedom, democracy, justice, and non-discrimination, and a world community based on peace, sustainable ways of life, full respect for human rights and an end to poverty.
- There is a single kind of substance, energy/matter, which is vibrant and infinitely creative in all its forms. Body and mind are indivisibly united.
- We see death as the return to nature of our elements, and the end of our existence as individuals. The forms of “afterlife” available to humans are natural ones, in the natural world. Our actions, our ideas and memories of us live on, according to what we do in our lives. Our genes live on in our families, and our elements are endlessly recycled in nature.
- We honor reality, and keep our minds open to the evidence of the senses and of science’s unending quest for deeper understanding. These are our best means of coming to know the Universe, and on them we base our aesthetic and religious feelings about reality.
- Every individual has direct access through perception, emotion and meditation to ultimate reality, which is the Universe and Nature. There is no need for mediation by priests, gurus or revealed scriptures.
- We uphold the separation of religion and state, and the universal human right of freedom of religion. We recognize the freedom of all pantheists to express and celebrate their beliefs, as individuals or in groups, in any non-harmful ritual, symbol or vocabulary that is meaningful to them.
If that sounds like YOUR Christianity and the God of YOUR Bible, then we will pray for you.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Very few Protestants are not baptized.
But let me guess. It only counts if it's done a certain way and by a certain person, right?
All those who love Jesus and follow him are Church. I would normally use the term born again believer but I haven't here to distinguish between real re-birth and what Caholics consider to be re-birth i.e. infant baptism.
Catholics are out of step with the true Church/body of Christ.
