What are pan-Christians?

[theefaith]

Very few Protestants are not baptized.
But let me guess. It only counts if it's done a certain way and by a certain person, right?

no even heretics can baptize if they do it properly

Christian ritual of baptism:
Immersion, sprinkling, pour pure water over the forehead three time with the words, I baptize thee in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit! Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19 Acts 2:38-39 Acts 8:36-38 Acts 22:16
1 Pet 3:21

Proper intention: to make a new creature in Christ, to put on Christ, initiation into the new covenant of grace
Proper Matter: pure water
Proper Form: the words: father, son, and Holy Spirit

 

[theefaith]

All those who love Jesus and follow him are Church. I would normally use the term born again believer but I haven't here to distinguish between real re-birth and what Caholics consider to be re-birth i.e. infant baptism.

Catholics are out of step with the true Church/body of Christ.

Unsubstantiated accusations as usual
Pride must protest and be in rebellion

 

[Pearl]

I got to baptize my friend who had been born again of the spirt and whatever you say it was real.

 

[theefaith]

I got to baptize my friend who had been born again of the spirt and whatever you say it was real.

baptism is born again

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

no even heretics can baptize if they do it properly

This is why I despise the Catholic religion. It's all about proper procedures and ceremonies as if that's what God is demanding of us and what pleases him.

 

[theefaith]

This is why I despise the Catholic religion. It's all about proper procedures and ceremonies as if that's what God is demanding of us and what pleases him.

it’s not a bible study but a covenant!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it’s not a bible study but a covenant!

Having 'church' most certainly is a Bible study:

"When you come together, everyone has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these must be done to build up the church.27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak in turn, and someone must interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, he should remain silent in the church and speak only to himself and God.29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is seated, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace—as in all the churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:26-33​

For all the spiritual insight and wisdom your Catholic hierarchy supposedly has they can't see the that the Bible tells us how to conduct a meeting of the saints. Instead your Catholic leaders think 'having church' is conducting proper, carefully orchestrated, supposedly approved, ceremonial procedures. That appeals to natural people, not to people who have the Spirit. It gives them a sense of having done something pleasing and acceptable to God but isn't even remotely close to what God desires.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Very few Protestants are not baptized.
But let me guess. It only counts if it's done a certain way and by a certain person, right?

If you were to show everybody a passage that says it doesn't matter instead of gaslighting people into taking your word for it, i will wholeheartedly back you up on that idea. Until then, the smart thing to do is to believe the Bible when it says it does matter. The only people that can be seen or mentioned as having baptized people into God's Church were the apostles, ministers, and evangelists in that Church.

This is why I despise the Catholic religion. It's all about proper procedures and ceremonies as if that's what God is demanding of us and what pleases him.

God says "do this or don't do that", and Protestants never disappoint at making up some religious-sounding excuse to justify why they believe they have a license to do the opposite. The root word of their religion being "protest" is 100% appropriate, because that's exactly how they react to God telling them what to do.

Look at the account where God struck Uzzah dead because he touched the ark. David erroneously assumed it didn't make a difference to God how the ark was transported to Jerusalem because his intentions were good, and Uzzah ended up paying for that assumption with his life. David initially blamed God for it, but then he consulted the Law, realized the entire incident was his fault for not following protocol, and then moved the ark to Jerusalem the way God said it was supposed to be done.

Despite what Protestants teach in their subjective brands of Christianity, God is all about following protocol(1 Cor. 14:33). Everything God created was meant to follow protocol, whether it was angels, human beings, the physical universe, or His Church. It's not a surprise that Protestants hate following procedure because they are like the rebellious children in this world who want to be their own lawgiver. Either someone is baptized God's way, or it doesn't count. That is what the Bible says, so that's how it is.

While you pretend your contempt is for Catholics' traditions, your contempt is really about God telling you what to do. God commanded things to be done His way in the Bible, and you hate it because it doesn't convenience you.

 

[atpollard]

The only people that can be seen or mentioned as having baptized people into God's Church were the apostles, ministers, and evangelists in that Church.

… and when they did, the Holy Spirit manifested the ‘charismata’ to prove that those baptisms were into the TRUE CHURCH. So does that still happen when the “right people” baptize to confirm that they and only they are the “right people” and theirs is the only “right church” (small ‘c’)?

As long as we are going to insist on “Acts” baptisms as the “no true Scotsman” of baptisms.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God says "do this or don't do that", and Protestants never disappoint at making up some religious-sounding excuse to justify why they believe they have a license to do the opposite. The root word of their religion being "protest" is 100% appropriate, because that's exactly how they react to God telling them what to do.

I'm not Catholic, so that makes me a protester by default. And I can assure you I live in obedience to God and do not resist his will. What I protest is fake, man-made doctrines.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you were to show everybody a passage that says it doesn't matter instead of gaslighting people into taking your word for it, i will wholeheartedly back you up on that idea. Until then, the smart thing to do is to believe the Bible when it says it does matter. The only people that can be seen or mentioned as having baptized people into God's Church were the apostles, ministers, and evangelists in that Church.

What I resist is the Catholic teaching that says only a Catholic priest can baptize you and that it has to be done in the prescribed way they say or else it doesn't count. What foolishness! That's cold, dead 'religion' in every negative connotation of the word.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Look at the account where God struck Uzzah dead because he touched the ark. David erroneously assumed it didn't make a difference to God how the ark was transported to Jerusalem because his intentions were good, and Uzzah ended up paying for that assumption with his life. David initially blamed God for it, but then he consulted the Law, realized the entire incident was his fault for not following protocol, and then moved the ark to Jerusalem the way God said it was supposed to be done.

That protocol is now faith in Christ. We are not to deviate one inch from the way God has told us to enter into peace and reconciliation with him in this New Covenant of Christ and faith in Him.

Also, in Christ the various prohibitions of the law to approaching God are set aside. In Christ, the believer is brought near to him and makes those laws inapplicable to them. I mean, for example, what does the law about not going behind the curtain under threat of death mean to a person who is already behind the curtain with Christ!

The way of law keeps the worshiper at a distance from God. The way of faith in Christ brings him near to God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Despite what Protestants teach in their subjective brands of Christianity, God is all about following protocol(1 Cor. 14:33).

Yes, he is. But that protocol is different in this Covenant of faith, vs. the covenant of law. The protocols of the law that kept you at a distance from God are obsolete (not needed now) in this New Covenant because, as I have explained, faith brings us up close and personal with the Lord as opposed to the law which by law kept us at a distance from him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God is all about following protocol(1 Cor. 14:33). Everything God created was meant to follow protocol, whether it was angels, human beings, the physical universe, or His Church. It's not a surprise that Protestants hate following procedure because they are like the rebellious children in this world who want to be their own lawgiver.

Well, as I say, protocols are different under grace than they are under the law. I mean, just look at the wonderful freedom of the people of God in the very 1 Corinthians 14:26-40 passage you cite, which by the way, the Catholics DO NOT HEED. Yet, they claim to be the inerrant representation of Christ and his word in this life. Or is this another example of their supposed authority to change things as they will?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Either someone is baptized God's way, or it doesn't count. That is what the Bible says, so that's how it is.

Can you give me chapter and verse about the three times sprinkling thing about the Catholic baptism? I don't mean sprinkling itself, or the matter of the 'Father, Son, and Holy Spirit'. I mean the literal procedure that the Catholics say constitute the one and only authorized and accepted water baptism.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

While you pretend your contempt is for Catholics' traditions, your contempt is really about God telling you what to do.

I live in obedience to God. I have no contempt for God telling me how I have to live.

God commanded things to be done His way in the Bible, and you hate it because it doesn't convenience you.

There are things God has commanded that I'm submitting to that are inconvenient. What I resist is people impressing commands onto the people of God that have no relevance to the person already brought near to God and touching the face of God in Christ through the new way of faith. Protesters have their share of people, too, who insist that they have to interfere and get in the way of the intimacy that the believer has with God. The intimacy they say you can't have without them.

 

[Curtis]

The rapture is a modern innovation of the Pentecostal spooks and kooks of the burned over district

Pentecostals didn’t write 1 Corinthians 15, nor 1 Thessalonians 4.

I’d think Catholics would love the term rapture, since it’s from a Latin vulgate term meaning CAUGHT UP, and being CAUGHT UP in the AIR in the CLOUDS to be with Jesus is absolutely biblical fact.

But then the RCC has been thoroughly corrupted over centuries to where it does not teach biblical salvation OR eschatology either, so that shouldn’t be surprising.

 

[Curtis]

All those who love Jesus and follow him are Church. I would normally use the term born again believer but I haven't here to distinguish between real re-birth and what Caholics consider to be re-birth i.e. infant baptism.

Catholics are out of step with the true Church/body of Christ.

Not just out of step - they’ve fallen and they can’t get up...

 

[theefaith]

Pentecostals didn’t write 1 Corinthians 15, nor 1 Thessalonians 4.

I’d think Catholics would love the term rapture, since it’s from a Latin vulgate term meaning CAUGHT UP, and being CAUGHT UP in the AIR in the CLOUDS to be with Jesus is absolutely biblical fact.

But then the RCC has been thoroughly corrupted over centuries to where it does not teach biblical salvation OR eschatology either, so that shouldn’t be surprising.

second coming yes

 

[Christ4Me]

no it’s the false doctrine of all believers are the church

believers are not Christians
Faith and baptism make us Christians
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36/38

Jesus testify about how one is born again of the Spirit hence saved.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus is answering Nicodemus's question below.

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

The born again of the Spirit was to occur after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for when that will take place.

Now for the how.

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

It is by believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit; hence the baptism with the Holy Ghost at our salvation.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The judgment is on those who do not believe in Him as condemned already since they were going to hell anyway.

The judgment on those who believed are saved is something you do not want to deny no matter what any church says so.

You are to be a disciple of Jesus Christ in following Him & His words; not a disciple of a church in following them & their words that deny Him because of His words that those who believe in Him are saved. Water baptism saves no one; it is the automatic baptism with the Holy Ghost whenever any one comes to & believes in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel is how any one is born again of the Spirit & thus saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Discipleship or running that race by looking to Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily is how we live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ; not thru a church.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.