The 10 Commandments are FOREVER

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Grailhunter

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60 devout christian scholars, King James Bible, 411 years and going strong!
INTRODUCTION
At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.

All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.

One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.

Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.

They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:

The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)

For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.

Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.

And over 30,000 Protestant denominations = 30,000 Protestant attempts to understand the Bible....using the King James Bible.
Quite the score for failure.
Between inaccuracies in translations of the scriptures and modifications of the scriptures and additions to the scriptures, it stands as the worst Bible in print.
 

Oceanprayers

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60 devout christian scholars, King James Bible, 411 years and going strong!
INTRODUCTION
At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.

All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.

One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.

Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.

They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:

The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)

For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.

Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
Are there those who charge against, " King James Onlyists" here? ;)
Good post.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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The 10 commandments are alive and well, including the 7th day Sabbath, they have never been revoked or replaced
I never said they were revoked or replaced. The 4th commandment has been fulfilled. Not broken, not trampled on...fulfilled. That's why I am not compelled to literally keep the requirements of a commandment that has already been fulfilled in me through the giving of the Holy Spirit.
 

Oceanprayers

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And over 30,000 Protestant denominations = 30,000 Protestant attempts to understand the Bible....using the King James Bible.
Quite the score for failure.
Between inaccuracies in translations of the scriptures and modifications of the scriptures and additions to the scriptures, it stands as the worst Bible in print.
You don't realize you cannot sustain with proof your claim there about the 30,000 and KJV?
How many versions of the bible are there to date? When KJV wasn't the very first?
 

Grailhunter

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The Master/Servant relationship was nothing more than working and comparable to a job and a boss, A live in nanny would be an example of a servant/master relationship, the apprentice and the master craftsman another

Nope human slave trade. Christianity was very popular with slaves.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry. Most of what we know today comes from texts written by masters.

Roman slaves were mainly Greek and former Greek military, due to the numerous wars between Rome and Greece and the Roman victories. However, war captives were not the only slaves in Rome and even Romans themselves could be enslaved.

The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Social Order. Slaves & Freemen | PBS

Slavery in ancient Rome - Wikipedia

What was slavery like in the NT world? | Psephizo

Early Christianity emerged within an empire built on the backs of slaves. Christians likewise participated in the slaveholding practices of the Roman Empire. Christians owned slaves, were slaves, and made use of enslaved labor, even if some in antiquity, including Christians, resisted slavery.

Roman slaves could generally be immediately recognized by their dress. Although there were no laws mandating dress for a slave, they tended to wear clothing which set them apart. For example, no slave could wear the toga, so if a man is wearing a toga, you know right off the bat it is a citizen.

Many female slaves worked as prostitutes in brothels. They also had to weave or do other tasks for brothel owners. On average, most slaves were expected to complete 250 jobs in one day. If these jobs were not completed by the end of the day, the master often times would whip them. Young children were required to submit sexually to their parents masters.

The more fortunate female slaves would be used as hairdressers, dressmakers, cooks and servants for rich women. Other slaves worked in small workshops making leather or silver goods or pots and pans. The ancient Roman slaves who had the hardest lives were those who were put to work in the mines.


Slave Rights...
Marriage
At one point in Roman history, freed slaves had been forbidden to marry citizens. This restriction was relaxed by Emperor Augustus who passed a reform in 18 BC called the lex Julia so that, by the first century, freed slaves were only prohibited from marrying senators.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry.
 
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Grailhunter

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You don't realize you cannot sustain with proof your claim there about the 30,000 and KJV?
How many versions of the bible are there to date? When KJV wasn't the very first?

Well the Geneva Bible can only take credit for a small part of the fracturing of Christ's Church, but the KJV was the primary Bible in use during the confusion that caused all these denominations.
 

Truth7t7

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Unless you can show us a Scripture which actually says this, it is mere conjecture. To the best of my knowledge, there is no such Scripture. But there are several which show that the Lord's Day (the first day of the week) was observed by the apostles and early Christians.
The church was established on Sabbath observance, yes Paul and Barnabas observed church on the Sabbath, and they admonished the early church to continue in this grace of Sabbath observance

Yes they met on the Sabbath, no it wasn't Sunday, yes they were new converts proselytes, yes this was the early Church

Merriam-Webster
Definition of proselyte

: a new convert (as to a faith or cause)

Acts 13:42-44KJV
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
 
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Truth7t7

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And over 30,000 Protestant denominations = 30,000 Protestant attempts to understand the Bible....using the King James Bible.
Quite the score for failure.
Between inaccuracies in translations of the scriptures and modifications of the scriptures and additions to the scriptures, it stands as the worst Bible in print.
That is your opinion, and I disagree

All new bible versions NIV, ESV, RSV, NASB, Etc are supported by the Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece)

Yes this text was created by Kurt Aland, Barbara Aland (Adulterers) as Kurt divorced his wife Ingeborg and ran off with his college student Barbara and married her

Yes this text was created by Roman Catholic Jesuit Cardinal (Carlo Maria Martini) a homosexual Union supporter

Yes the new bible versions that follow the work of Adulterers and a homisexual union supporter is "Corrupt"

I will stand with 60 christian scholars, 411 years and going strong, the King James Bible!
 
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Truth7t7

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I never said they were revoked or replaced. The 4th commandment has been fulfilled. Not broken, not trampled on...fulfilled. That's why I am not compelled to literally keep the requirements of a commandment that has already been fulfilled in me through the giving of the Holy Spirit.
If you believe the Holy Spirit has fulfilled the Sabbath for you have at it

I will continue to observe the 7th day Sabbath as God commanded, it's that simple
 
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Truth7t7

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Nope human slave trade. Christianity was very popular with slaves.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry. Most of what we know today comes from texts written by masters.

Roman slaves were mainly Greek and former Greek military, due to the numerous wars between Rome and Greece and the Roman victories. However, war captives were not the only slaves in Rome and even Romans themselves could be enslaved.

The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Social Order. Slaves & Freemen | PBS

Slavery in ancient Rome - Wikipedia

What was slavery like in the NT world? | Psephizo

Early Christianity emerged within an empire built on the backs of slaves. Christians likewise participated in the slaveholding practices of the Roman Empire. Christians owned slaves, were slaves, and made use of enslaved labor, even if some in antiquity, including Christians, resisted slavery.

Roman slaves could generally be immediately recognized by their dress. Although there were no laws mandating dress for a slave, they tended to wear clothing which set them apart. For example, no slave could wear the toga, so if a man is wearing a toga, you know right off the bat it is a citizen.

Many female slaves worked as prostitutes in brothels. They also had to weave or do other tasks for brothel owners. On average, most slaves were expected to complete 250 jobs in one day. If these jobs were not completed by the end of the day, the master often times would whip them. Young children were required to submit sexually to their parents masters.

The more fortunate female slaves would be used as hairdressers, dressmakers, cooks and servants for rich women. Other slaves worked in small workshops making leather or silver goods or pots and pans. The ancient Roman slaves who had the hardest lives were those who were put to work in the mines.


Slave Rights...
Marriage
At one point in Roman history, freed slaves had been forbidden to marry citizens. This restriction was relaxed by Emperor Augustus who passed a reform in 18 BC called the lex Julia so that, by the first century, freed slaves were only prohibited from marrying senators.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry.
You mean wolves in sheep's clothing proclaiming to be Christians in the south

It was the Quakers and Christian's in the North/East and England that worked to abolish slavery in the US, England, and Colonies
 

Grailhunter

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That is your opinion, and I disagree

What other Bibles do you think they were using.

All new bible versions NIV, ESV, RSV, NASB, Etc are supported by the Greek Text (Novum Testamentum Graece)

To date since so many copies of the older texts have been found....the reliable translations take it from the horse's mouth so to speak. No reason to rely on the work of others.

I will stand with 60 christian scholars, 411 years and going strong, the King James Bible!

LOL You do not know that King James was a homosexual? Now that probably had nothing to do with all the errors of the translation, but on top that you have a Bible with the name of a homosexual on it.
 

Grailhunter

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You mean wolves in sheep's clothing proclaiming to be Christians in the south

It was the Quakers and Christian's in the North/East and England that worked to abolish slavery in the US, England, and Colonies

No wonder you have so much trouble understanding the Bible. No part of this conversation is about black slaves in the south.
 

Ferris Bueller

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If you believe the Holy Spirit has fulfilled the Sabbath for you have at it
Yes, the Holy Spirit has put me at rest with God.
When God sees me he sees no violation of his requirement to 'keep' the rest he has established.

I will continue to observe the 7th day Sabbath as God commanded, it's that simple
As you should.

An important part of that, more important than sabbath keeping itself, is that you not have a judgmental and defensive attitude towards others who do not believe as you do. Your sabbath keeping is not acceptable to God unless you are at peace with those around you. For all the importance that sabbath keepers put on sabbath keeping, God says he does not want the sacrifice of your sabbath keeping if you are not first treating others correctly and keeping those commands. Isaiah 1:13-17.
 
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theefaith

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And over 30,000 Protestant denominations = 30,000 Protestant attempts to understand the Bible....using the King James Bible.
Quite the score for failure.
Between inaccuracies in translations of the scriptures and modifications of the scriptures and additions to the scriptures, it stands as the worst Bible in print.

And they summarily deleted scripture
Negating the word of God!
Many books and chapters especially favorite of mine dan 13 the faith story of Susana
 

Truth7t7

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No wonder you have so much trouble understanding the Bible. No part of this conversation is about black slaves in the south.
Of course there was slave trade in the south, of course those traders and owners claimed to be Christian, of course you made the statement below

Quote: Grailhunter post #645

"Nope human slave trade. Christianity was very popular with slaves."
 

Truth7t7

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Yes, the Holy Spirit has put me at rest with God.
When God sees me he sees no violation of his requirement to 'keep' the rest he has established.


As you should.

An important part of that, more important than sabbath keeping itself, is that you not have a judgmental and defensive attitude towards others who do not believe as you do. Your sabbath keeping is not acceptable to God unless you are at peace with those around you. For all the importance that sabbath keepers put on sabbath keeping, God says he does not want the sacrifice of your sabbath keeping if you are not first treating others correctly and keeping those commands. Isaiah 1:13-17.
Your claim of myself being judgemental is false, G8ds words judge

Defensive, I will always defend the truth of Gods words

There is no peace with evil in the world, and the principalities of darkness, love thy neighbor is best promoted by sharing Gods words of truth

I disagree with your claims concerning the Sabbath, you are no different than any other concerning Gods words, on not judging you that's Gods place

Jesus Is The Lord
 

Grailhunter

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Of course there was slave trade in the south, of course those traders and owners claimed to be Christian, of course you made the statement below

Quote: Grailhunter post #645

"Nope human slave trade. Christianity was very popular with slaves."

The whole discussion is about the Bible. Roman slaves....slaves that were Christian....Christians that had slaves and the Bible telling them to obey their masters. No part of this is about America. Roman....Roman....biblical era and beyond....

From post 645
Nope human slave trade. Christianity was very popular with slaves.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry. Most of what we know today comes from texts written by masters.

Roman slaves were mainly Greek and former Greek military, due to the numerous wars between Rome and Greece and the Roman victories. However, war captives were not the only slaves in Rome and even Romans themselves could be enslaved.

The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Social Order. Slaves & Freemen | PBS

Slavery in ancient Rome - Wikipedia

What was slavery like in the NT world? | Psephizo

Early Christianity emerged within an empire built on the backs of slaves. Christians likewise participated in the slaveholding practices of the Roman Empire. Christians owned slaves, were slaves, and made use of enslaved labor, even if some in antiquity, including Christians, resisted slavery.

Roman slaves could generally be immediately recognized by their dress. Although there were no laws mandating dress for a slave, they tended to wear clothing which set them apart. For example, no slave could wear the toga, so if a man is wearing a toga, you know right off the bat it is a citizen.

Many female slaves worked as prostitutes in brothels. They also had to weave or do other tasks for brothel owners. On average, most slaves were expected to complete 250 jobs in one day. If these jobs were not completed by the end of the day, the master often times would whip them. Young children were required to submit sexually to their parents masters.

The more fortunate female slaves would be used as hairdressers, dressmakers, cooks and servants for rich women. Other slaves worked in small workshops making leather or silver goods or pots and pans. The ancient Roman slaves who had the hardest lives were those who were put to work in the mines.


Slave Rights...
Marriage
At one point in Roman history, freed slaves had been forbidden to marry citizens. This restriction was relaxed by Emperor Augustus who passed a reform in 18 BC called the lex Julia so that, by the first century, freed slaves were only prohibited from marrying senators.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry.
 

Truth7t7

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The whole discussion is about the Bible. Roman slaves....slaves that were Christian....Christians that had slaves and the Bible telling them to obey their masters. No part of this is about America. Roman....Roman....biblical era and beyond....

From post 645
Nope human slave trade. Christianity was very popular with slaves.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry. Most of what we know today comes from texts written by masters.

Roman slaves were mainly Greek and former Greek military, due to the numerous wars between Rome and Greece and the Roman victories. However, war captives were not the only slaves in Rome and even Romans themselves could be enslaved.

The Roman Empire: in the First Century. The Roman Empire. Social Order. Slaves & Freemen | PBS

Slavery in ancient Rome - Wikipedia

What was slavery like in the NT world? | Psephizo

Early Christianity emerged within an empire built on the backs of slaves. Christians likewise participated in the slaveholding practices of the Roman Empire. Christians owned slaves, were slaves, and made use of enslaved labor, even if some in antiquity, including Christians, resisted slavery.

Roman slaves could generally be immediately recognized by their dress. Although there were no laws mandating dress for a slave, they tended to wear clothing which set them apart. For example, no slave could wear the toga, so if a man is wearing a toga, you know right off the bat it is a citizen.

Many female slaves worked as prostitutes in brothels. They also had to weave or do other tasks for brothel owners. On average, most slaves were expected to complete 250 jobs in one day. If these jobs were not completed by the end of the day, the master often times would whip them. Young children were required to submit sexually to their parents masters.

The more fortunate female slaves would be used as hairdressers, dressmakers, cooks and servants for rich women. Other slaves worked in small workshops making leather or silver goods or pots and pans. The ancient Roman slaves who had the hardest lives were those who were put to work in the mines.


Slave Rights...
Marriage
At one point in Roman history, freed slaves had been forbidden to marry citizens. This restriction was relaxed by Emperor Augustus who passed a reform in 18 BC called the lex Julia so that, by the first century, freed slaves were only prohibited from marrying senators.

Under Roman law, enslaved people had no personal rights and were regarded as the property of their masters. They could be bought, sold, and mistreated at will and were unable to own property, enter into a contract, or legally marry.
I'm somewhat taken with the claim Christian's were involved in the slave trade, perhaps you can cite early church fathers on the subject for better clarification?

I dont find the Roman situation any different than the south in America, many claimed to be Christian's in the trade and ownership, however I question the claim

Early Church father 4th Century was a vocal advocate against slavery in the Roman empire, his work "The Whole Of Humanity"

Wikipedia: Gregory of Nyssa, also known as Gregory Nyssen (Greek: Γρηγόριος Νύσσης; c. 335 – c. 395), was bishop of Nyssa, Cappadocia, from 372 to 376 and from 378 until his death.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Your claim of myself being judgemental is false
No, I'm not saying you're judgmental. I was warning against being judgmental. Because having the wrong attitude toward people and hurting them will nullify God's acceptance of your sabbath keeping. I hope sabbath keepers understand this because they tend to elevate sabbath keeping to that of one of the greatest laws, if not the greatest law. It's not. The prophets bear this out. That is the important truth about this matter that I would like sabbath keepers to know and take to heart. Christianity isn't about how you do 'church'. It's about how you treat people.
 

Truth7t7

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No, I'm not saying you're judgmental. I was warning against being judgmental. Because having the wrong attitude toward people and hurting them will nullify God's acceptance of your sabbath keeping. I hope sabbath keepers understand this because they tend to elevate sabbath keeping to that of one of the greatest laws, if not the greatest law. It's not. The prophets bear this out. That is the important truth about this matter that I would like sabbath keepers to know and take to heart. Christianity isn't about how you do 'church'. It's about how you treat people.
Christianity is about fulfilling the great commission, and keeping the commandments

Mark 16:15-16KJV
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Exodus 20:6KJV
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:21KJV
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Matthew 5:19KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
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