Is believing/faith a work ?
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Here is another scriptural example of what I am saying
John 5, verses 38 through 42 expose this truth, demonstrates this.
36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men.
42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
v38, the non born of God people, God's words are not in their hearts, so when The Christ appears to them, they do not believe.
v40, the non born of God people, are unwilling to come to Christ
v42, the non born of God people do not have the love of God within them.
Such it is with the unsaved, not born of God first. They have enmity in their hearts against Christ.
Footnotes
John 5, verses 38 through 42 expose this truth, demonstrates this.
36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men.
42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you.
43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
v38, the non born of God people, God's words are not in their hearts, so when The Christ appears to them, they do not believe.
v40, the non born of God people, are unwilling to come to Christ
v42, the non born of God people do not have the love of God within them.
Such it is with the unsaved, not born of God first. They have enmity in their hearts against Christ.
Footnotes
It would appear both Belief and Faith are a Gift from God and not of yourself!
Belief is a GIFT - Phil 1:29 "For you have been granted [the gift] to grant as a favor for Christ's sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf."
Faith is a GIFT - Eph 2:8-10 - "For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [the gift of] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].
Belief is a GIFT - Phil 1:29 "For you have been granted [the gift] to grant as a favor for Christ's sake not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer in His behalf."
Faith is a GIFT - Eph 2:8-10 - "For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [the gift of] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.] For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].
Believing is an work. If anyone conditions their salvation on their act of believing, then they condition it on their works.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Look at this....
Take a baseball, or football, or soccer ball,..... and throw it against the wall.
Now, take faith in your mind, and throw it against the wall..
Are they the same "work"? Are they the same "belief"?
Why not?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
again, not true
Our faith is in the work of God. Thats why it is his work. not ours.
As jesus said, it is the work of God we believe. Not our work.
According to Christ repentance is for the remission of sins. Faith is for justification by grace. This is not rocket science.
We are not born in sin.
You base your interpretation off of a false premise.
Words don't have any real meaning taken out of context.
The message being given defines the meaning of the words used by the author.
If all men inherited a sinful, depraved nature and guilt of sin like any other man then:
1. Jesus had an advantage in overcoming sin that we do not. Therefore the following facts are true.
2. Jesus was NOT made like His brethren in all things,
Hebrews 2:14-18
Inasmuch then as children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself LIKEWISE SHARED THE SAME, that through death He might destroy him who had power of death, that is the devil,
Point: If calvinism be true then Jesus did not share the same, because all men are born wicked, depraved. Jesus was born sinless. Calvinism is refuted. Calvinism contradicts the Bible.
Verse 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
17 Therefore in ALL, ALL, ALL ALL, things He HAD TO BE MADE LIKE HIS BRETHREN, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Point: If Calvinism be true Christ was not made in all things like His brethren, for His brethren are created totally depraved and He was born totally sinless/perfect. Calvinism refuted. Calvinism is heresy.
Verse 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
Point: If Calvinism be true man is different in how he has have been created, to desire nothing but sin. Whereas Jesus was only tempted to sin but not born completely depraved without any ability to resist sin.
Calvinism refuted. Calvinism is heresy.
3. Jesus was not tempted in all things just as we are,
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was IN ALL, ALL, ALL, POINTS TEMPTED AS WE ARE, YET WITHOUT SIN.
Point:
If Calvinism be true then Jesus was not tempted, made like us to sin from birth like we are.
Jesus was sinless, perfect and able to resist sin. Calvinism even teaches Jesus was incapable of sinnig.
100% opposite of what the scriptures teach about Jesus being like us in all points.
Calvinism refuted. Calvinism is heresy.
Are you implying that remission of sins is not for salvation? Because we cannot be justified without remission of sins.
Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus shed His blood FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
Peter commands repentance and baptism FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS.
Justified by obedient faith, James 2:21-24
Faith that saves is faith that obeys.
You are still refusing to answer for your doctrine of works salvation versus the scriptures in Romans 10, which is a major doctrine
6 But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (That is, to bring Christ up from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach: 9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: 10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame.
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: 13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Just for that one thing, everyone should beware of what your saying.
The law Paul is teaching in chapter 10 is the law of Moses. It is the old covenant, testament law.
Ni one can be saved by it.
Paul teaches we are saved by Jesus' new law, His will and testament, Romans 1:16.
Right in Romans 10: 9-10 Paul teaches a work of faith that is an essential requirement to be saved.
Confession with the mouth before men.
Just as Jesus taught in His gospel,
Matthew 10:32-33
Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him will I also confess before My Father in heaven.
But whoever denies Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
In the conversion of the Ethiopian Eunch we see the example of confession unto salvation.
Acts 8:37-38
Then Phillip said, If you believe with all your heart you may.
And he(Eunch) answered and said, I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.
That is the good confession with the mouth done publicly before men that is an essential requirement just like faith to be saved.
The Faith that saves is the faith that obeys.
Paul teaches works for salvation in Romans 10 but never meritorious works. Works of faith, James 2:24.
False gospel of faith only and no works salvation.
Unbiblical gospel.
Gods works save mankind in His gospel.
When we obey His gospel, God works His power to save us.
Therefore we are saved by works never by faith only.
Faith is a work of God, John 6:28-29
God commands we believe 1John 3:23-24.
When we obey the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.
We are working the works of God. Not the works of mens righteousness, Epheasians 2:8-9 ; Titus 3:5.
The mind of man did not invent Faith, repentance, confession, baptism.
These works come from the mind of God.
Therefore when we do His works we do so by His authorization.
When Jews tried to be saved by their own works of keeping the law of Moses.
They created a law unto themselves. The Jews had their own perverted laws from their own minds put into Gods law. This is legalism when man creates his own laws from tradition and binds them as authority from God.
They practised these laws but they were never from the mind of God, never authorized by God.
These works are from the minds of men, works of merit. Paul condemns these works, Ephesians 2:8-9.
God approves and authorizes His works,
Faith, Mark 16:15-16
Repentance Acts 2:38
Confession Romans 10:9-10
Water baptism Acts 2:38
These are not works of man therefore not meritorious.
We are saved by the power of God working to save us,
Matthew 26:28
Colossians 2:12
We are saved by the works of God. Saved by works not by faith and no works.
I have said the same things in this thread.
Go back and see.
Absolutely we are saved by the work of God, on the cross.
And we are also born again by the work of God
Our faith is gifted to us as Romans 12 and Ephesians 2 says
And our faithfulness is a fruit of the Holy Spirit working within us.
Peter describes it as being kept by the power of God through faith for salvation, our faith being the manifestation of Gods power in us.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice,
Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
For you see that since we are saved by grace, this means it is not of ourselves being the gift of God.
His grace towards us, even while we were dead in sins, was because of HIS GREAT LOVE towards us, but not toward the others.
See where we may differ is over that great love of God and how it factored into God choosing us for salvation from the beginning, versus those others which obviously God did not have a great love for.
Because of the ENMITY of the carnal mind, since they are not born again, no one seeks for God.
Of HIS New Covenant, it says this about us,
Romans 10
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”
God in dealing with Israel who were under the Old Covenant relationship, the people were not born again by the Spirit. In truth that was one of the promises reserved for the NC only , and written about in the books of the Prophets
See Israel, not being born of the Spirit, they continually resisted the Holy Spirit, just as Stephen says in Acts, for which they got so angry hearing the truth and stoned him.
However when a man is regenerated and renewed by the Spirit in the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, they are no longer resisting the Holy Spirit, and He teaches and leads the to Christ.
EXAMPLE here about the New Covenant in Ezekiel 36 and it is Also in Hebrews 8:7-13, the same thing is written.
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I do not do this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for My holy name’s sake, which you have profaned among the nations wherever you went. 23 And I will sanctify My great name, which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst; and the nations shall know that I am the Lord,” says the Lord God, “when I am hallowed in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations.
31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations.
32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord God, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”
33 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “On the day that I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will also enable you to dwell in the cities, and the ruins shall be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land shall be tilled instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass by. 35 So they will say, ‘This land that was desolate has become like the garden of Eden; and the wasted, desolate, and ruined cities are now fortified and inhabited.’ 36 Then the nations which are left all around you shall know that I, the Lord, have rebuilt the ruined places and planted what was desolate. I, the Lord, have spoken it, and I will do it.”
37 ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will also let the house of Israel inquire of Me to do this for them: I will increase their men like a flock. 38 Like a flock offered as holy sacrifices, like the flock at Jerusalem on its feast days, so shall the ruined cities be filled with flocks of men. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”
2 Thessalonians 2:13-17
New King James Version
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.
========================================================
Another example of that love God had for US, such a great love, that God chose us from before time began for salvation.
Salvations starts with SANCTIFICATION by the SPIRIT, meaning the being born of God first part
Then comes our BELIEF in the TRUTH by which He then seals us in the Holy Spirit for the Day of Redemption.
========================================================
The order in scripture is important as to the event.
Now we see that same thing when the Spirit of God came to Peter and told him to preach to Cornelius, where Peter had the vision of the animals and was told 3 times to rise Peter, kill and eat. And God said “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Now if you recall, Cornelius and all his household believed before Peter had said a whole lot of words, as the Holy Spirit had already cleansed their hearts from the enmity of the old man by regenerating him and his entire household before Peter spoke a word to them.
=====================================================
Peter’s Vision
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
New King James Version
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.
========================================================
Another example of that love God had for US, such a great love, that God chose us from before time began for salvation.
Salvations starts with SANCTIFICATION by the SPIRIT, meaning the being born of God first part
Then comes our BELIEF in the TRUTH by which He then seals us in the Holy Spirit for the Day of Redemption.
========================================================
The order in scripture is important as to the event.
Now we see that same thing when the Spirit of God came to Peter and told him to preach to Cornelius, where Peter had the vision of the animals and was told 3 times to rise Peter, kill and eat. And God said “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
Now if you recall, Cornelius and all his household believed before Peter had said a whole lot of words, as the Holy Spirit had already cleansed their hearts from the enmity of the old man by regenerating him and his entire household before Peter spoke a word to them.
=====================================================
Peter’s Vision
9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.” 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
If you agree we are saved by works, then it cannot be by faith alone.
Faith is not a miraculous gift that God blesses us with by direct miraculous operation of the Holy Spirit.
We don't need a miracle to believe because we are not born with a totally depraved sinful nature.
God gives us gifts, rain, sunshine, food, clothing, shelter, wives, children, The Holy Bible.
We do not need a miracle directly from the HS to understand and desire to believe the gospel.
God has gifted everyone the ability to reason and comprehend His Holy Word.
Those who chose to be evil are the ones who cannot understand Gods ways.
God gives them over to their reprobate mind. They believe their own desires, lies.
Here is an excellent example Paul gives us that anyone can be godly in their heart.
Even the lost do the things that are righteous in Gods eyes. That is proof we are not totally depraved.
Romans 2:13-15
For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, butbthe doers of the law will be justified;
For when gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things in the law, these although not having law the law, are a law to themselves.
Who show the work of the law written in their HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them.
How can these gentiles choose to do works of Gods will if they are totally wicked sinful reprobates?
They are clearly NOT saved christians.
This shows we do not need a miracle to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
The Biblical order of salvation
Taught the gospel
By hearing the gospel we get faith, Romans 10:17
We develop Godly sorrow knowing we are responsible for Jesus being murdered for us.
Therefore we repent, Acts 17:30
We are taught to confess so we obey,
Then we are baptized because Jesus commands it to be saved, Mark 16:15-16
We are not saved, first by direct operation of the Hily Spirit.
Then come to faith.
All the conversions are in the book of Acts.
Not one example of someone first getting regeneration then coming to Faith.
If so give an example.
Not before Jesus died, buried and was ressurected, then went back to His Father.
But when His gospel was in Force, Hebrews 9:16-17
2 Timothy 1, likely some of you dont believe what is written, or maybe you nave never paid attention,
but our salvation was determined long ago as one of the works of God as is said,
Acts 15:18
“Known to God from eternity are all His works."
Christ also told his children their names are written in heaven in the book of life of the lamb.
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ
but our salvation was determined long ago as one of the works of God as is said,
Acts 15:18
“Known to God from eternity are all His works."
Christ also told his children their names are written in heaven in the book of life of the lamb.
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ
That is not a good example for the point your trying to make though as you dropped off v16 that finishes the matter.
Romans 2:13-15
For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
For when gentiles, who do not have the law, BY NATURE do the things in the law, these although not having law the law, are a law to themselves.
Who show the work of the law written in their HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them.
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
There is NO salvation outside of Christ in the New Covenant.
First off, they are judged by the gospel of Christ, that supersedes the law written in their hearts. All that means is they have an idea of what is right, and what is wrong. We know scripture says by works of the law shall no man be justified, for by the LAW is the knowledge of SIN.
Second, their conscience bears witness to God of their deeds, and also accusing themselves or excusing themselves. Well Adam excused what he did to God blaming Eve, and Eve excused her actions to God for what the Serpent did. At least the serpent did not try to excuse himself to God. But God and Christ and the Holy Spirit are not fooled by any of that, were they. There is NO salvation here, God is not excusing them they are excusing themselves to God. I have heard this argument for their salvation many times before, and it is pure Antichrist spirit at work.
The LAW of GOD written in their hearts shows them to be unrighteous sinners. So no they will not be saved.
I believe every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, Matthew 4:4
God knows everything.
That does not means everything is determinism.
I go to a movie.
Next day I go to same movie with friends.
I already know what is going to happen to the characters in the movie.
That does not mean I desired Sue ti be murdered or the bad guy to live.
Gods will is that everyone be saved, 1Timothy 2:4.
We are born with no sin debt.
God created us as free moral agents
We chose to sin.
If God chose reprobation for me.
Then you Sir, may have been intentionally deceived by God to believe your elect and teaching the truth.
You may have really been created to be deceived into teaching a false gospel to send more souls into hell.
You could be a servant of satan
Not a servant of God.
If you are correct in your determinism.
My whole point was THEY ARE NOT SAVED YET THE DO THE WILL OF GOD!
How can they be totally depraved?
What it proves is the lost can do godly things. Calvinism teaches you can do nothing godly but only desire to do sin.
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