The one that developed from the apostasy that started in the second century. I let you work it out.
A Terrific TRINITY Passage of Scripture
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The one that developed from the apostasy that started in the second century. I let you work it out.
Because I have already explained what happened during the apostasy:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/14145-scriptural-proof-that-jesus-was-not-fully-god/page__st__120
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Ducky
Why do yo expect everyone you disagree with to repeat themselves over and over again? It is like you forget every idea you believe is wrong and it becomes a brand new shock when you see it again.
Why do yo expect everyone you disagree with to repeat themselves over and over again? It is like you forget every idea you believe is wrong and it becomes a brand new shock when you see it again.
Wouldn't it be much simpler to just say whether you believe in a literal Hell or not? It's a very simple question. And the Scriptures are quite clear. Even the JW's aren't afraid to say they deny a literal Hell.
Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
[sup]41 [/sup]“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:46 (ESV)
[sup]46 [/sup]And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Revelation 20:10 (ESV)
[sup]10 [/sup]and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:15 (ESV)
[sup]15 [/sup]And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So Jesus speaks in parables, which is a highly symbolic language, but what he says about hell is literal. The same about revelation. It is an apocalyptic writing and as such is not to be handled as a literal writing.
Do you know what Gehenna was? The Valley of Gihinnon where the inhabitants of Jerusalem carried their rubbish to be burned. It was continually burning. In their eschatology they developed the idea that on the day of wrath God will destroy Gentile nations the same was as the rubbish was burned in Gehenna. the flames that consumed the rubbish are "eternal" and the fire burned all the time. But the rubbish itself was consumed.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
B
Can the Bible be read and understood by people who do not receive instruction from Ellen White's teaches; instruction from the local Kingdom Hall?
Can the Bible be read and understood by people who do not receive instruction from Ellen White's teaches; instruction from the local Kingdom Hall?
The NT mentions Hell and punishment in the eternal fire many times. No reason to not believe it, unless you're going there.
Mark 9:43-48 (ESV)
[sup]43 [/sup]And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. [sup]45 [/sup]And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. [sup]47 [/sup]And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, [sup]48 [/sup]‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
I did not receive instructions from either of them. But the bible cannot be correctly understood without understanding Hebraic thought.
Do you literally cut off your hand? Do you literally put out your eye? Jesus speaks symbolically, how come you don't understand the spiritual content?
I would literally cut off my foot to keep from going to Hell, which is MUCH worse, as Jesus clearly said.
So you're implying I'm going to Hell? Make up your mind. Do you believe in Hell or not?
It is you who believe in hell, so which body part do you chop off to avoid it? Do you poke your eyes out so that you don't see the pretty girls on the street and the tv?
It's only my personal favorite, but there are 80+ more. Wanna see 'em?
Are you Muslim? Verse 28 is one of their favorites.
When the "Son of God" (name/title only) was on the earth in a man's body (of all places), guess what?
Yup, you guessed right ... He was quite limited indeed.
Then beyond that, Philippians says He emptied Himself (of His divine attributes).
Then beyond that, we have verses telling us how totally humble Jesus was.
Then beyond that, He was teaching us how to live our lives ... total dependence on the Father in heaven.
Is that enough, or do you want more?
P.S. There is more.
NOT when I happen to know my scripture.
JAS 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Evil desires start in our heads & hearts. You think about it and then you act or perform the sin. So it would be useless to cut off a limb as the real problem is in the heart and the mind (they need to be controlled by the Spirit so they don't run off into evil). You need to nip SIN in the BUD, where if left alone it would grow and be given birth.
So by other scripture I can undestand more of what has been said by Jesus here because I know and understand other scripture:-
Scripture should be interpreted in LIGHT of OTHER scripture where required and not just on it's own.
The other thing is that scripture also should be interpreted in context.
No, I am not a Muslim. I follow the teaching of the bible alone...
No need to list them, I know them all. I used to be a trinitarian, got a theology degree, served in full time ministry receiving only voluntary financial gifts... until one day I decided to test - not disprove, nor prove, but test - the foundations. And the foundations fell apart. I had to throw it all away and reworked everything.
None of your 80+ passages support the trinity. I tested them all.
The term "son of God" are used of persons who reflects the righteousness of God in their lives. The term is applied to angels, Israel, Solomon and the son of David. It doesn't mean deity.
Philippian passage: where does it say Yeshua emptied himself of "his divine attributes"? Read the passage in context. It is Adamic Christology, not about the trinity.
... and we have verses that tell us to put on Christ, that is, be like him in every way.
None of what you referred to provide any proof for the trinity.
Do I need more? No, I don't. I have gone through all those "proof" passages. None of them support the trinity.
I see. So when it is convenient you interpret passages in context. Good start. You should always do it.
Or do you admit that the given passage is not to be taken literally?
But you stated that what Jesus said was literal, so I repeat my question. Do you ever stumble? If you do, do you literally cut off your offending body part or poke your eye out literally to avoid the literal hell?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Once again, if you have convinced yourself of these ideas, no amount of proof will be enough. Doesn't the fact that countless theologians, who have studied longer and are smarter than you, have come to an orthodox conclusion about the Trinity and the divinity of Christ? You are kind of in the same position as the guy who ponders why his opinion is different than everyone's so he checks with the universe and decides the universe is wrong rather than himself.
Those "countless" theologians stand on the foundation laid by the Nicaean bishops, not on the foundation laid by Jesus and the apostles. I am not interested in the Hellenistic fabrication of what the Greeks came up with after the apostasy of the 2nd century. These theologians do not understand Hebraic thought, just as the Nicaean fathers didn't.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Also, what about the case of Jaroslav Pelikan? An expert in Church history, but is not religious, until he joins the Orthodox Church at the age of 90. After a lifetime of studying and writing about all stages of Christian history, he decides to join a Church that you claim is based on a different belief system than the Early Church? It just doesn't add up.....
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