a non-eschatological Coming?

[bbyrd009]

it’s like this, it’s like that, it’s like this and like that, isn’t quail delicious

A coming is a physical and visible arrival.

to a person naturally prone to read literally, sure
but Christ is “Spirit,” right

Revelation is very much a book that tells us of future events

well, you have a future, right
after all, where is Christ “revealed?”

 

[bbyrd009]

It appears you deny the "Literal" return of Jesus Christ seen below?

we tend to see what we most want to see, i guess
only the Father knows when we will get it, huh

 

[bbyrd009]

When you walk through the fire of oppression, you will not be burned up; the flames will not consume you

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Where? In the Olivet Discourse Jesus doesn't mention any destruction of Jerusalem or the temple.

Luke 21:20-24
King James Version

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Matthew 24
King James Version

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If your right eye offends you, pluck it out and toss it

well, now you are asking me to testify of myself; but i would say that that might be true?

So that temple that is miles wide and miles high is inside you, maybe?. Okay then! God the Father is in you as well and not on His Throne in heaven, maybe. what a definitive answer!

 

[bbyrd009]

So that temple that is miles wide and miles high is inside you, maybe?

well wadr it is not at all “miles wide and high,” except in English, which has obscured the true measurements, imo

and i dont know of course, but i suggest that both “12” and “thousand” (and probably stadia too) have allegorical meanings that are meant to be understood in this context

Revelation 21:16 Lexicon: The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal.
also likely not a “square,” tetragonos, but meh
that would force a “cube,” right
which has eight corners?
so, the translation becomes a wonderful illustration of…two dimensional thinking, imo :)

read it from the lex, and ignore the english, say i

 

[Randy Kluth]

wadr “return of Christ from heaven” cannot be Quoted, not one single time
hupo strepho

This is incomprehensible to me? What is "wadr?"
The "return of Christ from heaven" is clearly in the text in the sense that Jesus was obviously addressing the coming of the Son of Man from heaven in Dan 7.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is incomprehensible to me? What is "wadr?"

with all due respect, and fwiw if you are in Chrome, you can even highlight it and click "say aloud"
dunno about other browsers though

The "return of Christ from heaven" is clearly in the text in the sense that Jesus was obviously addressing the coming of the Son of Man from heaven in Dan 7.

ok, if you say so, then it's "clearly" in the text
funny that it cannot be Quoted one, single time tho, huh?
even in Hebrew? shuvu
Return to Me, and I will return to you (x2, for a Witness)
(zing)

 

[ewq1938]

Of course He does. Just go back and read what is written.

I have read it. It's not there.

 

[ewq1938]

but Christ is “Spirit,” right

Wrong.

Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[ewq1938]

Luke 21:20-24
King James Version

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That is a spiritual desolation of the city not a physical destruction. The antichrist will rule from Jerusalem so he won't destroy it. Second, there will be no temple at that timeframe so no temple can be destroyed.

Matthew 24
King James Version

24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

That's before Christ sat on the mount so this is not part of the Olivet Discourse. It's roughly an hours walk from the temple to the bottom of the mount. They walked up the mount to an unknown height and then Christ sat down and began to tell them of future events surrounding the Great Tribulation. Jerusalem and it's temple is not part of those events.

 

[amadeus]

When you walk through the fire of oppression, you will not be burned up; the flames will not consume you

Unless there is nothing good in you. Remember the three Hebrews and the soldiers of Nebuchadnezzar...[Daniel 3] Where was the good?

 

[ScottA]

Direct question, you have fully explained your world view opinion

Do you believe Jesus Christ will literally be seen by human eyes upon this earth, Yes/No?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

John 14:19

 

[Truth7t7]

John 14:19

John 14:19KJV
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

You haven't answered the direct question, put it in writing before the forum, stand firm in your teaching and belief, Yes/No waiting?

Direct question, you have fully explained your world view opinion

Do you believe Jesus Christ will literally be seen by human eyes upon this earth, Yes/No?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Enoch111]

John 14:19

This verse does not refute the fact that every eye will see Christ at His Second Coming. So what is the verse saying: Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

1. It is speaking about the ascension of Christ, after which the world would not see Him until the Second Coming. Christ is invisible to both Christians and non-Christians today.

2. "But ye see me" could have multiple applications. Christ was seen by the apostles between His resurrection and ascension. He was also seen by some after His ascension. He will be seen by the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture, but the world will not see Him then.

3. "Because I live, ye shall live also" plainly tells us that because Christ was resurrected, Christians will also be resurrected.

4. There is no reference to the Second Coming here, since that was not the reason for these words.

 

[ScottA]

John 14:19KJV
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

You haven't answered the direct question, put it in writing before the forum, stand firm in your teaching and belief, Yes/No waiting?

Direct question, you have fully explained your world view opinion

Do you believe Jesus Christ will literally be seen by human eyes upon this earth, Yes/No?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I have. But if you do not take Jesus's word for it, why should I expect you to take my word for it?

 

[Truth7t7]

I have. But if you do not take Jesus's word for it, why should I expect you to take my word for it?

"Waffle" "Diversion" You haven't answered the direct question, put it in writing before the forum, stand firm in your teaching and belief, Yes/No waiting?

Direct question, you have fully explained your world view opinion

"Direct Question" Do you believe Jesus Christ will literally be seen by human eyes upon this earth, Yes/No?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[ScottA]

This verse does not refute the fact that every eye will see Christ at His Second Coming. So what is the verse saying: Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

1. It is speaking about the ascension of Christ, after which the world would not see Him until the Second Coming. Christ is invisible to both Christians and non-Christians today.

2. "But ye see me" could have multiple applications. Christ was seen by the apostles between His resurrection and ascension. He was also seen by some after His ascension. He will be seen by the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture, but the world will not see Him then.

3. "Because I live, ye shall live also" plainly tells us that because Christ was resurrected, Christians will also be resurrected.

4. There is no reference to the Second Coming here, since that was not the reason for these words.

I referred to the verse (John 14:19) because it clearly states that Christ does not make a visible return to this world. (That was the question, and 7t's erroneous assertion)

But the verse definitely does speak of the second coming of Christ, as He very much said what Paul also said and confirmed, that to those who are saved, He appears a second time. Hebrews 9:28

 

[ScottA]

"Waffle" "Diversion" You haven't answered the direct question, put it in writing before the forum, stand firm in your teaching and belief, Yes/No waiting?

Direct question, you have fully explained your world view opinion

"Direct Question" Do you believe Jesus Christ will literally be seen by human eyes upon this earth, Yes/No?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I gave you Jesus' answer to your question, which is better than me answering. But you do not receive it--and that is what the forum now has in writing.

As for me, I do not "believe" that Jesus will be seen in the world again...but [know] that He will not--because He said so.

I also told how those verses are to be reconciled with John 14:19--which you have not been able to do, clearly refusing to receive the whole truth from Christ himself. You are a witness against yourself and your own error.

 

[Randy Kluth]

with all due respect, and fwiw if you are in Chrome, you can even highlight it and click "say aloud"
dunno about other browsers though

Thanks.

ok, if you say so, then it's "clearly" in the text
funny that it cannot be Quoted one, single time tho, huh?
even in Hebrew? shuvu
Return to Me, and I will return to you (x2, for a Witness)
(zing)

Please be clear--what are you not seeing in what text? Thanks. The Return of Christ from Heaven is in the Olivet Discourse, clearly. I'm a little hyper--if you don't spell things out clearly, I may find myself arguing something you didn't say! ;)