a non-eschatological Coming?

[ewq1938]

In the Lke poortion of the Olivet discourse we see the focus on teh 70 AD fall of Jerusalem

Where? In the Olivet Discourse Jesus doesn't mention any destruction of Jerusalem or the temple.

 

[ewq1938]

To claim "The Great Tribulation" represents history over the past 1900 years and counting isnt found to be supported by scripture

I agree. Jesus said the Great Tribulation was too long and that no flesh (of the saints) would survive so he announced that it would be shortened as in a shorter length and that is revealed in Revelation to be 42 months rather than the previous 84 months (7 years). A SUPER LONG Great Tribulation is obviously unscriptural. Guess what, zero flesh survived that! Another contradiction of scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

What is missing in most interpretations of end time events, is any accurate understanding of the convergence of time with eternity, i.e., between mankind and the ways of this world, and God.

Jesus came preaching and explaining what the kingdom of God is like--because He brought it with Him right then and there...and because it is simply the hardest thing for people to imagine, and still is.

And, yes, He spoke in parables--because our need was for Him to draw pictures. That is how inept we are. And the "beliefs" and conjecture of men thinking like men has offered little or nothing. Most try to fit God's reality into something worldly, something that makes sense to flesh and time bound souls--which could not be further from the truth.

I have continued the sketches eluded to in the scriptures and explained this problem and what is missing, for thirty-some years. The reason the prophets (including Jesus) were killed for their attempts to elaborate upon the spiritual image of the kingdom, is--most won't hear of it.

Paul, after attempting to elaborate and "press on", simply finished, saying, "Then comes the end."--because no one really wants to press on or hear anything outside the realm of their own understanding.

I have tried.

PS, Oh, and @Randy Kluth ...could you change the title of the tread to "Hey, Listen Up!"

Scripture clearly teaches of a future literal human man that will cause abomination and desolation, known as Daniel's "Little Horn", Pauls "Man Of Sin" and John's "The Beast"

When this Abomination takes place, and this human man is revealed, the future "Great Tribulation" for 3.5 years begins

Jesus Christ literally returns in the heavens, immediately after this tribulation, in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hey Listen Up!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ScottA]

Scripture clearly teaches of a future literal human man that will cause abomination and desolation, known as Daniel's "Little Horn", Pauls "Man Of Sin" and John's "The Beast"

When this Abomination takes place, and this human man is revealed, the future "Great Tribulation" for 3.5 years begins

Jesus Christ literally returns in the heavens, immediately after this tribulation, in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hey Listen Up!

Jesus Is The Lord

That apparently is your interpretation...but it's wrong.

And it's like I said, your interpretation is wrong...because you imagine it is all according to the terms of this world, when the matter is not about this world, but about the kingdom which is not of this world.

Renew your mind...or "then comes the end" is what you will see first. Daniel 7:13 Mark 13:26

 

[Randy Kluth]

All partial preterists are futurists in a very tiny sense concerning this unbiblical third coming. There was no coming of Christ in 70AD. He didn't need to because the Romans didn't need any help. The Olivet Discourse is also not about 70AD in the slightest. The only people being persecuted in the Olivet Discourse are Christians not Jews of Judaism.

I agree, there was no "2nd Coming" of Jesus in 70 AD. So I'm *not* even a Partial Preterist! What I'm saying is that Jesus was speaking of his coming in judgment as in the "Day of the Lord," which has happened at various times in Israel's history, according to the Scriptures. You can see Jesus coming in judgment as a divine coming in the NT Scriptures as well. Some think the following passages refer to the 2nd Coming, but I don't believe they do...

Rev 2.5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
2.16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
3.3 But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
3.20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

If you look carefully at the context of these passages you may see that Jesus comes in different ways prior to his 2nd Coming. It is a coming to us in the course of our lives, to correct, to save, to judge, etc. This is, what I believe, Jesus meant when he was asked about his 2nd Coming. He turned away from a strictly eschatological understanding to talk about the importance of how we live our lives *today.*

Prognosticating about the future is an exercise in vanity, and an indulgence that Jesus did not sanction. And yet, this remains a primary reason Christians want to steep themselves in the knowledge of the book of Revelation, to try to anticipate things through the shadows of a Nostradamus, or through the readings of Edgar Cayce. That isn't the purpose of Scriptures.

 

[ewq1938]

I agree, there was no "2nd Coming" of Jesus in 70 AD. So I'm *not* even a Partial Preterist!

I don't agree. You can't say a coming of Jesus in judgment and deny there was a coming at the same time. You are very much a Partial Preterist and I'm not the only one to recognize this fact.

If you look carefully at the context of these passages you may see that Jesus comes in different ways prior to his 2nd Coming. It is a coming to us in the course of our lives, to correct, to save, to judge, etc. This is, what I believe, Jesus meant when he was asked about his 2nd Coming. He turned away from a strictly eschatological understanding to talk about the importance of how we live our lives *today.*

A coming is a physical and visible arrival. What you cited is not a coming. The first and second coming were physical comings/arrivals. There is no coming at all in 70AD. Jesus was not there and didn't need to be there. He was in heaven when that happened.

Prognosticating about the future is an exercise in vanity, and an indulgence that Jesus did not sanction. And yet, this remains a primary reason Christians want to steep themselves in the knowledge of the book of Revelation, to try to anticipate things through the shadows of a Nostradamus. That isn't the purpose of Scriptures.

Revelation is very much a book that tells us of future events. None of the above is true. It is also a picture perfect example of what a Partial Preterist would say about Revelation as they think it all happened in the past except the second coming!

 

[Truth7t7]

That apparently is your interpretation...but it's wrong.

And it's like I said, your interpretation is wrong...because you imagine it is all according to the terms of this world, when the matter is not about this world, but about the kingdom which is not of this world.

Renew your mind...or "then comes the end" is what you will see first. Daniel 7:13 Mark 13:26

Yes We Disagree, There Will Be A Literal Wordly Seen

Scripture clearly teaches of a future literal human man that will cause abomination and desolation, known as Daniel's "Little Horn", Pauls "Man Of Sin" and John's "The Beast"

When this Abomination takes place, and this human man is revealed, the future "Great Tribulation" for 3.5 years begins

Jesus Christ literally returns in the heavens, immediately after this tribulation, in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hey Listen Up!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ScottA]

Yes We Disagree, There Will Be A Literal Wordly Seen

Scripture clearly teaches of a future literal human man that will cause abomination and desolation, known as Daniel's "Little Horn", Pauls "Man Of Sin" and John's "The Beast"

When this Abomination takes place, and this human man is revealed, the future "Great Tribulation" for 3.5 years begins

Jesus Christ literally returns in the heavens, immediately after this tribulation, in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Hey Listen Up!

Jesus Is The Lord

It is your choice to disagree, but there is nothing "literal " about the world--it is vanity, created out of nothing, and only an image.

The words are Spirit, and only tell of the things that come by the Spirit--not of this world.

 

[Truth7t7]

It is your choice to disagree, but there is nothing "literal " about the world--it is vanity, created out of nothing, and only an image.

The words are Spirit, and only tell of the things that come by the Spirit--not of this world.

Gods words are "Literal" seen below, and prophetically speak of a future "Literal" return of Jesus Christ, as human eyes on a "Literal" earth will witness the future event

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[ScottA]

Gods words are "Literal" seen below, and prophetically speak of a future "Literal" return of Jesus Christ, as human eyes on a "Literal" earth will witness the future event

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

You don't understand. Every eye cannot see Him in the world--too many have passed on. Corpses are not going to be raised up in the world. That whole line of thinking is complete error.

Nor are the clouds of heaven water vapor, but are Spirit.

 

[Enoch111]

Every eye cannot see Him in the world--too many have passed on.

Except that at His Second Coming every eye will indeed see Him (Rev 1:7). And at the Great White Throne Judgment, those who have passed on will also see Him.

 

[Enoch111]

Where? In the Olivet Discourse Jesus doesn't mention any destruction of Jerusalem or the temple.

Of course He does. Just go back and read what is written.

 

[Truth7t7]

You don't understand. Every eye cannot see Him in the world--too many have passed on. Corpses are not going to be raised up in the world. That whole line of thinking is complete error.

Nor are the clouds of heaven water vapor, but are Spirit.

It appears you deny the "Literal" return of Jesus Christ seen below?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[ScottA]

Both are not of this world.

 

[ScottA]

It appears you deny the "Literal" return of Jesus Christ seen below?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

No...you're not listening. Such heavenly things cannot happen in this world.

Your focus is on the clay and not on the Potter. These things do not point to the the one, but to the other.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Kingdom of God, in the time of Jesus' earthly ministry, was *in their midst.* In other words, Jesus was in their midst and as such represented the Kingdom of God in their midst. He was the King of the heavenly Kingdom, which was near, and yet not yet here. This is, I believe, the proper way to view it.

I will never leave you, nor forsake you

 

[Truth7t7]

No...you're not listening. Such heavenly things cannot happen in this world.

Your focus is on the clay and not on the Potter. These things do not point to the the one, but to the other.

Direct question, you have fully explained your world view opinion

Do you believe Jesus Christ will literally be seen by human eyes upon this earth, Yes/No?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[bbyrd009]

If your right eye offends you, pluck it out and toss it

So God teh Father lives in you as well as teh new Jerusalem described in REv. 21?

well, now you are asking me to testify of myself; but i would say that that might be true?

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you kidding? That's exactly what Jesus said! He said this Great Tribulation is a punishment of the Jewish People by dispersion, beginning in 70 AD. It would last the *entire NT age* and end only at the Return of Christ from heaven

wadr “return of Christ from heaven” cannot be Quoted, not one single time
hupo strepho

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I agree. Jesus said the Great Tribulation was too long and that no flesh (of the saints) would survive so he announced that it would be shortened as in a shorter length and that is revealed in Revelation to be 42 months rather than the previous 84 months (7 years). A SUPER LONG Great Tribulation is obviously unscriptural. Guess what, zero flesh survived that! Another contradiction of scripture.

Once again, you misconstrue the scriptures, nothin is shortened from God's "ORIGINAL PLANS" God does not have to change His plans!! Jesus is simply telling the Disciples why God decided to shorten the Anti-Christ's life span by KILLING HIM via his return at the Second Coming when Gd the Father decides to send him. The first 3.5 years comes first the Judgment 3.5 years comes afterward. Nothing is shortened as per the 70th weeks length, it will be 7 years. In the middle of the week (unless God is lying) this Anti-Christ will break his AGREEMENTS with MANY, or the E.U. will break their agreements with Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, then conquer them, as Dan. 11:40-43 shows us.

So, Jesus is foretelling that the Anti-Christs reign can only be 42 months which starts in the MIDDLE of the week, thus the MIDDLE of the week is 3.5 years AND the Anti-Christs 42 Months reign when ADDED TOGETHER equals 7 years.

Why is this so hard for you to grasp, I told you this same thing 2 or 3 years ago on another site. Jesus is only prophesying unto his disciples WHY he comes at the time he dies. What I notice if you ever getting anything in your mind you just cant change that thought, and to be honest, that is a dangerous trait brother, God can't teach those who are not teachable.

Jesus to the disciples, I will cut the time short when I come at my second coming, else this coming Beast would kill everyone (which is why the ORIGINAL PROPHESIES in Daniel state its ONE WEEK or 7 years). So, Jesus only tells the Disciples why the 70th week is a PRE PLANNED 7 years. But you see SHORTHENED and all you can see is God is going to shorten the 70th week, NO, God sending Jesus back is SHORTENIG the Beats life and thus his RULE to 42 months which starts in the MIDDLE of the 70th week.