Galatians 2:20

[Episkopos]

By that same faith in Christ.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

No...it is the faith OF Christ...notice the little word...of.

I have already explained elsewhere that we can believe ON Jesus or INTO Jesus. The text in Romans 4 is about who will inhabit the NATIONS...not the New Jerusalem. The faith of Abraham is NOT the faith of Christ. We were held by the law UNTIL the faith OF Christ should be revealed.

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.” Gal. 3:23

That is the faith OF Christ. So if we have the faith of Abraham...we are still under the law. We are righteous because of a human faith...our faith....but we are not covered by the righteousness of God as individuals. Only those who walk in the Spirit are covered by Him in this way.

The righteous inherit the nations. They have put THEIR own faith in Christ, like almost modern believers. But the saints inherit rulership with Christ...the ones who walk in resurrection life in this world. These have put on the faith OF Christ to enter INTO Him. Paul is speaking of another standard that is called "the high calling in Christ", Modern believers see that as "the high calling in Abraham."

 

[Enoch111]

Just pop right out of the womb a full grown man. Yep, sounds right.

How is this relevant to justification by grace through faith? God imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to the one who believes on Him. "Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness". Even Lot is deemed righteous by God though many of his actions were unrighteous (2 Peter 2:7). "Just" (Gk dikaios) means justified by grace through faith, therefore righteous.

The New Birth means that the sinner is a babe in Christ and needs to mature as a Christian. But at the same time God sees him or her as righteous purely by His grace. Satan hates this truth, therefore he attacks this doctrine constantly. Indeed the Council of Trent was primarily to attack justification by grace through faith.

 

[marks]

No...it is the faith OF Christ...notice the little word...of.

As I had posted,

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.” Gal. 3:23

That is the faith OF Christ. So if we have the faith of Abraham...we are still under the law.

Gentiles were not under the Mosaic Law. This covenant was made between God and Israel.

No one is justified by the works of Law.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How is this relevant to justification by grace through faith? God imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to the one who believes on Him. "Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness". Even Lot is deemed righteous by God though many of his actions were unrighteous (2 Peter 2:7). "Just" (Gk dikaios) means justified by grace through faith, therefore righteous.

The New Birth means that the sinner is a babe in Christ and needs to mature as a Christian. But at the same time God sees him or her as righteous purely by His grace. Satan hates this truth, therefore he attacks this doctrine constantly. Indeed the Council of Trent was primarily to attack justification by grace through faith.

Maybe the problem is that some don't believe that God is able to make a man righteous?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

As I had posted,

Galatians 2:16 KJV
16) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.



Gentiles were not under the Mosaic Law. This covenant was made between God and Israel.

No one is justified by the works of Law.

Much love!

Now you are equating and confusing faith with Covenant. No mention of covenant in regards to faith in the passages you posted.

Look, it takes a real honesty to see the truth. If you wish to remain as you are then that's fine. You should leave it at that and not try to make lame connections in the bible.

ALL people were shut up under the law before faith came. You are ignoring the fact that Abraham came BEFORE the law. So then the law that Paul is speaking about is not the law of Moses...but the law given at Sinai that did not bring life. Jesus gives life. There is a verse that says...I am the Way the Truth and the Life.

Now try equating that with Abraham...and the kind of faith he had.
I find so many modern type believers have NO honesty when it comes to their beliefs.

"Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." Gal. 3:21

No individual can claim to be under the righteousness of God UNLESS that one walks in the resurrection power of Christ. The fact that this is either ignored or contested is a sign of the times and the fallen state of the church at present.

 

[Episkopos]

Maybe the problem is that some don't believe that God is able to make a man righteous?

Much love!

of course the opposite is true. The problem is when people justify themselves by their beliefs. The modern doctrines are cleverly evil...they MAKE you become self-righteous in order to part of their group. They make you claim to be righteous because of your doctrinal stance. If you don't do that they claim you have no "assurance" of salvation. No humility...no fear of the Lord. And I write this..not for the indoctrinated and dishonest people here...but for the seekers who know that something is very wrong with the state of the church in our time....

 

[marks]

I find so many modern type believers have NO honesty when it comes to their beliefs.

I find several on this forum who would rather discuss from their ignorance people whom they've never met, and have no true knowledge of, but I suppose that's easier then a more meaningful response.

Consider how much of your post there is freely and openly sharing your negative opinions of me, rather than something of substance.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The problem is when people justify themselves by their beliefs

That may be a problem, but that's not what I'm talking about, now, is it?

They make you claim to be righteous because of your doctrinal stance.

They who, exactly? No one makes me claim righteousness based on doctrinal stance, this is a straw man argument.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I find several on this forum who would rather discuss from their ignorance people whom they've never met, and have no true knowledge of, but I suppose that's easier then a more meaningful response.

Consider how much of your post there is freely and openly sharing your negative opinions of me, rather than something of substance.

Much love!

You make everything about you...and that is exactly the kind of person that is open for indoctrination. You refuse to actually look at the biblical arguments I am presenting...logical arguments founded on the WHOLE counsel of God not just a statement of faith found in some cultic denomination. Where is the freedom into eternal life and reality in that scheme? It is just MORE bondage....from a bondage to the flesh of the body to a bondage to the flesh in the now religiously indoctrinated outer man. A person becomes WORSE than before by becoming self-righteous in regard to the gospel that is meant for freedom...not just a different kind of bondage.

Honest people look at the bible honestly. Indoctrinated people ignore anything that isn't in the statement of faith (actually dogmatic beliefs) they have been conditioned to memorize and endlessly repeat.

 

[marks]

You make everything about you...

Rather, you are the one doing that. We should not be afraid to examine our own behavior honestly.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You refuse to actually look at the biblical arguments I am presenting...

That's nonsense. I've attempted to dialog with you many times, and in each case, this is the route you take, departing from Biblical discussion, to express your negative views of me. That's an empty response in my opinion.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Rather, you are the one doing that. We should not be afraid to examine our own behavior honestly.

Much love!

Being ignorant of God's ways doesn't have to be a slight on a person...but you take it that way because of where you live from...the outer man. Now the outer man in you will rise up to defend and deflect. Anybody with an ounce of discernment would call you out on it. So you are mainly safe in your illusions.

 

[marks]

Being ignorant of God's ways doesn't have to be slight on a person...

Being ignorant of your own ways is blindness.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Being ignorant of your own ways is blindness.

Much love!

EXACTLY! We can agree at least on that.

 

[marks]

EXACTLY! We can agree at least on that.

But can we both benefit?

I'm trying to give you a benefit. Look back over your posts, and review how much is you speaking about me? This can help you. So long as you are focused on trying to paint me in some negative light, well, how do you characterize that if someone were to be doing that concerning you?

Do I speak to you that way? No I do not. Does it help when you speak that way? No it does not.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

That's nonsense. I've attempted to dialog with you many times, and in each case, this is the route you take, departing from Biblical discussion, to express your negative views of me. That's an empty response in my opinion.

Much love!

I am indeed against the religious posturings of the outer man. So you are right about that. BUT, I appeal to the inner man...the part of you that is actually created in God's image. The problem is that until a person is crucified, the person will hide behind the outer man and claim to be saved through dogmatic beliefs. It's a crime that the leaders in the church not only put up with such nonsense...they create the perfect environment for the failure we see in the church at the present time. So since no pastor is looking over your shoulder, you free to think it out for yourself...but you must embrace humility and let the INNER man get a hold of your keyboard. The inner man is very weak...until the anointing of God empowers him. But we never get that far when the outer man religion short-circuits a real conversion INTO Christ.

Much love.

 

[Episkopos]

But can we both benefit?

I'm trying to give you a benefit. Look back over your posts, and review how much is you speaking about me? This can help you. So long as you are focused on trying to paint me in some negative light, well, how do you characterize that if someone were to be doing that concerning you?

Do I speak to you that way? No I do not. Does it help when you speak that way? No it does not.

Much love!

I respond according to your responses. if you justify yourself from the outer man I will call you out for it...in hope that you will be saved in a deeper way...in the inner man. No posturing...just honesty and truth. Maybe nobody has tried to speak to you with any depth before? Maybe everybody you hang with is in the same state as yourself?

Can we not BOTH benefit?...can the outer man also be just as "saved" as the inner man?

 

[Episkopos]

How many here believe that God imputed His righteousness (just as holy as God is) to Abraham as opposed to just seeing him as a just and faithful human?

Was Abraham born again from heaven? Did Abraham walk in the death and resurrection of Christ?

let's see how much confusion reigns...

 

[marks]

I am indeed against the religious posturings of the outer man.

Guess what all of your opinions of me look like to me? I really do suggest you lay aside your thoughts about me, and just consider what I'm saying here.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I respond according to your responses.

Maybe you simply cannot see me through your own conceptions.

Much love!