Galatians 2:20

[marks]

In other words you are addressing something totally different than what I am trying to explain to you.

I think you had jumped in on this part . . .

You've been dancing around my question because you cannot answer it.

My question is this.

Romans 7:14-23 KJV
14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

When Paul says, "now then it is no more I that do it", in saying, no more I, he indicates a change. What is the change he is indicating?

The answer is right there in the passage. And he even runs through it twice, so we won't miss it. "No more I, but sin that lives in me". This "no more I", is a change, what changed?

What happened that "it is no more I"? If it is "no more I", then before this change, it was "I". I what? I that sinned. Now it is no more I, but sin that lives in me. Where is the sin? It's no more I, but it does live in me.

Paul gets more specific then saying, nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. So he is speaking about two things here, "me", and "my flesh". And sin used to live in me but now it lives in my flesh, which is not "me".

The change? Rebirth.

Much love!

Do you believe that being reborn means that we are no longer under the power of sin?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

The Holy Spirit is Himself our down payment, not that we receive a "partial Holy Spirit", and we are waiting for the rest of Him.

Is it true that when you are born again, that sin no longer has the power to make you sin? Do you believe that when you are reborn, that this enables you to not commit sins? That whereas before you were under sin's power, and now you are not? What is your thought on that?

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. (1 Corinthians 1:21-22) When a priest is anointed, he is just beginning his priesthood, he has yet to experience the fulness of that anointing. The apostles were anointed in John 20:22 and then received in fulness that anointing at Pentecost. They were in other words Born again in John 20:22 and the Second move of the Spirit Came in Acts 2. They were in the Spirit, and then began to walk in the Spirit.

Please address this point first, RE: John 20:22 in relation to Acts 2. (See Ephesians 3:19, and Ephesians 4:13)

 

[marks]

Please address this point first, RE: John 20:22 in relation to Acts 2. (See Ephesians 3:19, and Ephesians 4:13)

If you have a question, ask it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. (1 Corinthians 1:21-22) When a priest is anointed, he is just beginning his priesthood, he has yet to experience the fulness of that anointing. The apostles were anointed in John 20:22 and then received in fulness that anointing at Pentecost. They were in other words Born again in John 20:22 and the Second move of the Spirit Came in Acts 2. They were in the Spirit, and then began to walk in the Spirit.

Please address this point first, RE: John 20:22 in relation to Acts 2. (See Ephesians 3:19, and Ephesians 4:13)

When you are born again, does sin still have power over you, or are you free from the power of sin?

Yes? No?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The apostles were anointed in John 20:22 and then received in fulness that anointing at Pentecost.

That's not how the Bible says this. Why are you changing the words? It's like you are making this up.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Do you believe that being reborn means that we are no longer under the power of sin?

When we are born again we are free from the power of sin but have not yet come to victory over sin. Romans 7 is the Newborn Christian which still struggles with the flesh, victory comes when we learn to walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:1)....

Simply put,
Earnest of the Spirit leads to fulness of the Spirit
Being in the Spirit leads to walking in the Spirit, Galatians 5:25

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 1:27-31 KJV
27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28) And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29) That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

A "prohibitive presence"? Don't do this . . . don't do that . . . OR Else!

Walk in the Spirit, and you will not do the works of the flesh. This is more like, live the right way, and the rest is moot.

How is it that you would lose the presence of God inside? If you sin, God leaves you alone? What of His promise . . . I will never leave you, nor forsake you. And, He ever lives to make intercession for you. When does He leave? When does He forsake us? When does He stop interceding?

So that then goes back to the question, just How reconciled are we? To what degree? If committing a sin makes God leave you?

That will take us back to "parsing sin", some sins will be considered OK to God, and some not? And I'll say that all sin is the work of the flesh, sin. No sin comes from the new man.

We're going to go in circles again, but I challenge you to truly answer my question in such a way that it doesn't demand the passage mean anything other than what it plainly states.

Much love!

It's interesting that Romans 8 says, 'if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His'. The Holy Spirit does indwell all true believers.

 

[David H.]

When you are born again, does sin still have power over you, or are you free from the power of sin?

Yes? No?

Answered in #126

 

[marks]

When we are born again we are free from the power of sin but have not yet come to victory over sin.

If you are free from sin, but aren't experiencing victory over sin, where is the breakdown? Is it that we aren't actually free? Or that we are, but are living as if we are not?

And if we are, but are living as if we are not, doesn't that mean we have to become aware that we actually are, to the point that we will actually live that way?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's interesting that Romans 8 says, 'if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His'. The Holy Spirit does indwell all true believers.

And He has promised . . . I will never leave you nor forsake you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Simply put,
Earnest of the Spirit leads to fulness of the Spirit
Being in the Spirit leads to walking in the Spirit, Galatians 5:25

Your verse there doesn't say what you said.

Galatians 5:25 KJV
25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

If you live in the Spirit, you are admonished to walk in the Spirit. Let's use clear speech.

Galatians 5:14-16 KJV
14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15) But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

How is it that Paul instructs us to walk in the Spirit, so that we shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh?

If you are not able?

You are able. If you will only believe.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

That's not how the Bible says this. Why are you changing the words? It's like you are making this up.

That is how I explain the two moves of the Holy Spirit, being Breathed on them and coming on them like a rushing windand cloven tongues of fire. One is an anointing the other is the fulness of the anointing. The fact that 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 calls the earnest of the Spirit an anointing is where my explanations comes from.

 

[marks]

Answered in #126

If you believe that rebirth sets you free from the power of sin, why would you defend remaining under it's power? As if it's not yet actually true?

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is how I explain the two moves of the Holy Spirit, being Breathed on them and coming on them like a rushing windand cloven tongues of fire.

Better to stay with Biblical terminology, unless it doesn't say what you want to say. That's what I think anyway.

Rewording narrative passages to show your view, well, I'll just say I don't believe in doing that myself.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Your verse there doesn't say what you said.

Galatians 5:25 KJV
25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

If you live in the Spirit, you are admonished to walk in the Spirit. Let's use clear speech.

Galatians 5:14-16 KJV
14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15) But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

How is it that Paul instructs us to walk in the Spirit, so that we shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh?

If you are not able?

You are able. If you will only believe.

Much love!

Your first point is mere semantics.... "admonish" or "leads to" are the same thing to me... just the words used are different, point being, being in the Spirit is not enough we must walk in the Spirit, when we walk in the Spirit we DO NOT fulfill the lust of the flesh.

 

[David H.]

If you believe that rebirth sets you free from the power of sin, why would you defend remaining under it's power? As if it's not yet actually true?

Because being free from the power of sin is different from having victory over sin. The example I use of this is the A.A. member who by forced abstinence still chides "once an alcoholic always and alcoholic", versus the Alcoholic who no longer desires to drink in his heart. One is done by the will and strength of the man the other by the work of the Holy Spirit in the man. Until we reach the point of weakness (repentance) in our strength, we cannot have that victory over the sin itself. BTW I have lived the above example as former Alcoholic, but have a total victory over this by the work of the Holy Spirit in me... It is all his work in me, I did not even try to stop of my own strength, but he took the desire away from me all together. Am I perfect now, No, and none of us are but we are being made perfect and will be when we are able to receive this. Do You understand the difference I am presenting you here and how this relates to Romans 7 Christians and romans 8 Christians?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

But what about Paul? Or do you think he wasn't talking about himself personally, even though that's how he wrote?

I can't tell you how many Scriptural disagreements I find come down to this very thing . . . "It says this, but it means that." I don't read the Bible that way myself.

Much love!

Paul and John were both Hebrews and always put themselves in their teachings. But "mankind" is more appropriate. Paul wasn't alive when Abraham was alive before the law, nor was he alive when God gave the law to Moses, even though he uses "I". Right? At the time Paul would be over 1,300 years old! That should answer your question.

And, yes, I know you don't read the Bible that way. But the context always helps me. We've debated about that before...

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And how does this move sin from yourself to your flesh? Can you explain that?

Much love!

I did. It was the "thou shalt not think of a pink elephant." Immediately your flesh thinks of a pink elephant.

The New Covenant isn't about what not to do, but what to DO. Love God with all your heart, mind and body, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Could you commit adultery right in front of your wife, or would that be impossible to even think about? Well, God is right inside of me. He is my Husband. Isa. 54:5

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A "prohibitive presence"? Don't do this . . . don't do that . . . OR Else!

Walk in the Spirit, and you will not do the works of the flesh. This is more like, live the right way, and the rest is moot.

How is it that you would lose the presence of God inside? If you sin, God leaves you alone? What of His promise . . . I will never leave you, nor forsake you. And, He ever lives to make intercession for you. When does He leave? When does He forsake us? When does He stop interceding?

So that then goes back to the question, just How reconciled are we? To what degree? If committing a sin makes God leave you?

That will take us back to "parsing sin", some sins will be considered OK to God, and some not? And I'll say that all sin is the work of the flesh, sin. No sin comes from the new man.

We're going to go in circles again, but I challenge you to truly answer my question in such a way that it doesn't demand the passage mean anything other than what it plainly states.

Much love!

Our new nature acts from being in love with God. He is not some far-off entity that holds judgment towards me in His hand. I never want to do anything that would hurt Him. I would rather obey His leading to do righteous things, and they make me happy, not sad that I can't go out and kill someone. That is not even in my thoughts.