Galatians 2:20

[1stCenturyLady]

marks said: ↑

This is the change Paul is speaking of? That previously, sin was in him, but now it had left him? Is this what you are saying?

Much love!



Where did it go?

Romans 7:19-25 KJV
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Much love!

Where did it go? To the cross along with the nature from Adam's sin that produced it. Romans 6:6-7 and Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Where there is no sin, there is no law. The written law is not needed. Law and sin go together. It was the build up in a previous chapter of the 8 chapter teaching in Romans. Where there is no law there is no sin.

The resurrection of Christ we also then partake of through our being reborn. 2 Peter 1:2-4 (read to 11) shows that now our nature partakes of the divine nature of Christ. It is all through the seed of the Father which Jesus was conceived with, so never sinned, and we receive at the time we become born again 1 John 3:9. (the word practice was added by translators who believe in their own works instead of all by God).

The last verse of Romans 7 sets us up for the next chapter about the Holy Spirit given to us through Jesus. "25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. That part is the conclusion of chapter 7:14-23 what the Law could only produce through our own works. The Jews have the knowledge in the mind; but had to try to keep the Law while sin was still in their flesh. Impossible. Read below

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[Behold]

To be crucified with Christ means that a part of us...the carnal outer man....is out of the way.

This is interesting, because the correct understanding of what you have stated, is the beginning of the evolution from Babe in Christ, to "as many as be perfect", that is "Spiritual Maturing".........all the way to "Spiritual Maturity".

This is what is known as "working out your salvation", which is the process of understanding how to exist there, in your FAITH and Knowledge of the Spiritual Life= ""IN Christ""

Notice that you wrote...>"Crucified with Christ'".

Paul continues and says...>So, "reckon the old man dead".

Why? Because it has happened. The Old Man IS Crucified with Christ......this is not a process of it happening.....its a fact that has happened.
So, when a believer begins to identify themselves with this spiritual reality, vs...>"im a sinner, confessing, trying to be good" which is the carnal mind.....then this Believer is coming into the knowledge of what it means to have already become a "new Creation in Christ", and that is how you walk in the Light.

 

[marks]

the sin nature. That is the old man. Romans 6:6-7

That is a fragment of an answer, either you don't understand my question, or you don't understand the answer, or you don't wish to give a full and meaningful answer.

20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

It is no more I that do it, but sin that lives in me.

Until you can understand this passage . . .

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That is a fragment of an answer, either you don't understand my question, or you don't understand the answer, or you don't wish to give a full and meaningful answer.



It is no more I that do it, but sin that lives in me.

Until you can understand this passage . . .

Much love!

Sin dwelt in us since Adam sinned, and we inherited the serpents nature. Jesus changed that curse. Romans 7:17 is BEFORE Jesus; it was when all we had was the Law. Jesus took sin away. 1 John 3:5. I also answered your question. You asked where did sin go? I said - the cross. And I supplied scriptures.

Did you have any other questions? If so, ask it another way. What about verse 17 don't you understand. It is the before. Jesus is the after. Let me try saying it one other way. Romans 7:17 applied to all who were under the Law. But it does NOT apply to anyone born of God by being born again. We have no sin as long as we keep abiding in Jesus, because there is no sin in Jesus. 1 John 3:5

2 Cor. 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

 

[marks]

I also answered your question. You asked where did sin go? I said - the cross. And I supplied scriptures.

You've been dancing around my question because you cannot answer it.

My question is this.

Romans 7:14-23 KJV
14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

When Paul says, "now then it is no more I that do it", in saying, no more I, he indicates a change. What is the change he is indicating?

The answer is right there in the passage. And he even runs through it twice, so we won't miss it. "No more I, but sin that lives in me". This "no more I", is a change, what changed?

What happened that "it is no more I"? If it is "no more I", then before this change, it was "I". I what? I that sinned. Now it is no more I, but sin that lives in me. Where is the sin? It's no more I, but it does live in me.

Paul gets more specific then saying, nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. So he is speaking about two things here, "me", and "my flesh". And sin used to live in me but now it lives in my flesh, which is not "me".

The change? Rebirth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But it does NOT apply to anyone born of God by being born again. We have no sin as long as we keep abiding in Jesus, because there is no sin in Jesus. 1 John 3:5

How do you define "abiding in Jesus"? What Scriptures do you look at to show what that means?

"Abiding" means to live there, to dwell, remain, like that. What does it mean that you "remain in Jesus"? How do you do that?

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The answer is right there in the passage. And he even runs through it twice, so we won't miss it. "No more I, but sin that lives in me". This "no more I", is a change, what changed?

No, not the rebirth. That is the next change. The first change for mankind before verse 17 came was God's giving of the Ten Commandments to Moses. Man went from no law to being under the Ten Commandments.

You need to go back further.

Romans 7:5-13
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Sin’s Advantage in the Law
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Law Cannot Save from Sin
13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

 

[marks]

No, not the rebirth. That is the next change. The first change for mankind came was God's giving of the Ten Commandments to Moses.

Then give your answer. About Paul, and what he wrote of himself.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

When Paul says, "now then it is no more I that do it", in saying, no more I, he indicates a change. What is the change he is indicating?

The answer is right there in the passage. And he even runs through it twice, so we won't miss it. "No more I, but sin that lives in me". This "no more I", is a change, what changed?

What happened that "it is no more I"? If it is "no more I", then before this change, it was "I". I what? I that sinned. Now it is no more I, but sin that lives in me. Where is the sin? It's no more I, but it does live in me.

Paul gets more specific then saying, nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. So he is speaking about two things here, "me", and "my flesh". And sin used to live in me but now it lives in my flesh, which is not "me".

The change? Rebirth.

The Point Paul is making is that even after we are born again, sin dwells inside of us, and this is the reason we need to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit which transforms the very motives of the heart after salvation. This is enabled by submission to the work of the Spirit in us (Romans 8), and is more than just a renewing of the mind but of the heart also.

As an illustration, your renewed mind will tell you adultery is wrong and you may force obedience to that notion in your life by abstaining from acting out on that desire, But when God takes that away by His divine work in you via the Holy Spirit we not only abstain with the desire intact, but we abstain with no desire to act. The difference is not just being able to suppress that sin of the flesh that is in us but to have total victory over that fleshly desire. This is the difference between being in the Spirit and walking in the Spirit. The drug addict no more desires the drug, the alcoholic no more desires the alcohol, the adulterer no more looks on women in lust, Or the murderer no longer has anger for other men, or that we can learn to love our enemies... (Matthew 5:21-48)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

How do you define "abiding in Jesus"? What Scriptures do you look at to show what that means?

"Abiding" means to live there, to dwell, remain, like that. What does it mean that you "remain in Jesus"? How do you do that?

Much love!

It means exactly that. It means to live there, to dwell, remain. Romans 8:9 shows what happens when instead of the Spirit drawing us to Christ from the OUTSIDE of us, there comes a point called repentance where the Spirit comes on the INSIDE and dwells in us changing everything about us. He crucifies the sin in us and nails it to the cross of Jesus, and then as long as we do not quench Him He lives in us. Actually in our conscience. It becomes super-sensitized because that is where He writes His commandments. Our conscience will no longer let us act against it. It would be too painful to lose that ever presence of God that is inside. That is why I can hear God clearly. I have the same mind of Christ, that Jesus had while on earth. The Father was in His mind. That is why Jesus said, I do nothing I don't see (in His mind) the Father doing in heaven. Even as I type, God sometimes gives me something I never had thought of before, but it is truth.

Then give your answer. About Paul, and what he wrote of himself.

Much love!

Go read the rest. I may have edited after you read it.

 

[marks]

As an illustration, your renewed mind will tell you adultery is wrong and you may force obedience to that notion in your life by abstaining from acting out on that desire,

That describes anyone. You don't need a renewed mind to let you know sin is wrong, sinners know that. They may force obedience where they feel the need, and not where they don't.

The difference is not just being able to suppress that sin of the flesh that is in us but to have total victory over that fleshly desire. This is the difference between being in the Spirit and walking in the Spirit. The drug addict no more desires the drug, the alcoholic no more desires the alcohol, the adulterer no more looks on women in lust, Or the murderer no longer has anger for other men, or that we can learn to love our enemies... (Matthew 5:21-48)

In being reborn, we are recreated with actual righteousness - a new person, with a new heart - and be it to you according to your faith.

Some believe that sin remains, that they need seek fresh forgiveness, that they lack the power over sin. Your heart is already new, in your mind, you don't see it. But our walk is by faith and not by sight.

To the extent that you believe you are a new person, complete in Christ, and that in Christ, all sin is forgiven forever, to the extent that you believe that, you will walk in the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit will bear His fruit in your life.

Isaiah 59:12 KJV
For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;

Jeremiah 14:7 KJV
O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee.

If we regard our sins as though they still condemn us, we live according to our flesh, as though it still had power, and sin the power to condemn.

Romans 7:5 KJV
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Believing we have to meet some "level of performance" is a faith killer. Jesus fulfills the Law in us. Not through us, in us.

Trusting that you are forgiven and free you will live that way, in the power of the Holy Spirit. And should that wrong thinking get back in, you will forget that your sin is removed - that you've been purged from your past sin (why past, btw?) - and you will forget that you have the power of a new life.

But return to trusting Jesus, live in the new mind of the new man, and you will live abundant and free.

You think your heart is still corrupt, I tell you, you are a new creation, and the power of God lives in you, and you are united to your Creator, and you now share His nature, those who are born again.

Trusting in this you will find, your heart actually does not want to do evil. It's your flesh that wants to fool you into thinking this is still the corruption in your heart, however,

It is now no more I, but sin that lives in me. It's not you, it's not your "wicked heart", it's confusion over what God did for you, and trusting that He has given you new life, and that those feeling inside are just corrupt flesh vying for your attention, and you don't have to give that, allow you to walk in the power of Jesus' resurrection.

He has already set you free. Believe, and live accordingly.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Point Paul is making is that even after we are born again, sin dwells inside of us,

No, it is the infilling of the Holy Spirit that makes us reborn in the first place. He doesn't come later - He is the cause of the rebirth.

 

[marks]

Man went from no law to being under the Ten Commandments.

But what about Paul? Or do you think he wasn't talking about himself personally, even though that's how he wrote?

I can't tell you how many Scriptural disagreements I find come down to this very thing . . . "It says this, but it means that." I don't read the Bible that way myself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Man went from no law to being under the Ten Commandments.

And how does this move sin from yourself to your flesh? Can you explain that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Our conscience will no longer let us act against it. It would be too painful to lose that ever presence of God that is inside.

A "prohibitive presence"? Don't do this . . . don't do that . . . OR Else!

Walk in the Spirit, and you will not do the works of the flesh. This is more like, live the right way, and the rest is moot.

How is it that you would lose the presence of God inside? If you sin, God leaves you alone? What of His promise . . . I will never leave you, nor forsake you. And, He ever lives to make intercession for you. When does He leave? When does He forsake us? When does He stop interceding?

So that then goes back to the question, just How reconciled are we? To what degree? If committing a sin makes God leave you?

That will take us back to "parsing sin", some sins will be considered OK to God, and some not? And I'll say that all sin is the work of the flesh, sin. No sin comes from the new man.

We're going to go in circles again, but I challenge you to truly answer my question in such a way that it doesn't demand the passage mean anything other than what it plainly states.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

You think your heart is still corrupt, I tell you, you are a new creation, and the power of God lives in you, and you are united to your Creator, and you now share His nature, those who are born again.

There are lots of people who claim to be born again, yet their heart is still corrupt, and they are living in sin... does that then mean they are not born again? Or worse that they are allowed to live in that sin because of the grace of God (Turning the grace of God into lasciviousness)? What God seeks is a repentant heart, a broken and contrite spirit... it is only then that His Spirit in us can BEGIN to do the work of sanctification in the newborn believer. This is why we all have to go through the phase of being the Romans 7 Christian before we can be the Romans 8 Christian.... When we are weak then He is strong. For me this is all part of the maturation process in the Spirit, as Newborns we are not yet mature Spiritually. Maturation of the new creation is the process of Progressive sanctification,as we go from righteousness to Holiness.

No, it is the infilling of the Holy Spirit that makes us reborn in the first place. He doesn't come later - He is the cause of the rebirth.

When we are newborn, we receive the Holy Spirit in "earnest" literally a down payment, which implies a future full payment, which is the second move of the Holy Spirit in us. For example, we see this in the apostles when before Jesus ascended, he breath the Spirit on them and then at Pentecost they received the "full payment" so to speak of the Spirit. (See John 20:22 and compare to Acts 1 and 2). You see the apostles themselves were not "born again" until "after the death of the testator" and this is recorded in John 20, and the second move of the Spirit was at Pentecost. Our rebirth is no different than theirs.

 

[marks]

What God seeks is a repentant heart, a broken and contrite spirit... it is only then that His Spirit in us can BEGIN to do the work of sanctification in the newborn believer.

Can you come to God unrepentant, and expect to be saved?

Trust in Jesus, and live in His resurrection power.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is why we all have to go through the phase of being the Romans 7 Christian before we can be the Romans 8 Christian.... When we are weak then He is strong.

Romans 8 is the victory we live in the Romans 7 life. Or actually, the victory is,

Romans 7:21-25 KJV
21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

This body is death because it is corrupt in sin, but our life is found in Christ, and in Christ is no sin.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When we are newborn, we receive the Holy Spirit in "earnest" literally a down payment, which implies a future full payment, which is the second move of the Holy Spirit in us.

The Holy Spirit is Himself our down payment, not that we receive a "partial Holy Spirit", and we are waiting for the rest of Him.

Is it true that when you are born again, that sin no longer has the power to make you sin? Do you believe that when you are reborn, that this enables you to not commit sins? That whereas before you were under sin's power, and now you are not? What is your thought on that?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Can you come to God unrepentant, and expect to be saved?

Trust in Jesus, and live in His resurrection power.

We come to Jesus by receiving the good news, and repentance is a fruit of the Spirit after our rebirth. In other words we as new borns arrive at, make room for, or reach repentance (Choreo) (2 Peter 3:9)

This body is death because it is corrupt in sin, but our life is found in Christ, and in Christ is no sin.

This is His righteousness imputed on us, not us being made Holy (Sanctification of the Spirit). In other words you are addressing something totally different than what I am trying to explain to you.