What is the name of the son per Matt 28:19?

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Truther

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It's important to realize that this particular verse was changed by the Roman church early in the second century. The original read..."Baptizing them in My name." That is the name of Jesus. We know this verse was altered because of early Christian writers who quoted the verse in its original form. It makes no sense that Jesus would use the wording that we see in Catholic creedal statements. We are told in Acts that there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven with which people can be saved.

The Father is not a name. The Son is not a name. The Spirit is not a name. Jesus, on the other hand...IS a name.
I am okay with Matt 28:19 as we have it.

I think it is original to Jesus' commission.

I think it was inserted in the commission by Matthew to divide the wheat from the tares, which works marvelously.

The rebellious that resist the name of Jesus in baptism cannot comprehend what the name of the son is.

It is like a parable to them that God will not let them understand because of the hardness of their heart.

One must repent to comprehend baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins, then God will allow them to obey the rest of Acts 2:38.
 

Marymog

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It's important to realize that this particular verse was changed by the Roman church early in the second century. The original read..."Baptizing them in My name." That is the name of Jesus. We know this verse was altered because of early Christian writers who quoted the verse in its original form. It makes no sense that Jesus would use the wording that we see in Catholic creedal statements. We are told in Acts that there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven with which people can be saved.

The Father is not a name. The Son is not a name. The Spirit is not a name. Jesus, on the other hand...IS a name.
Manuscript Evidence I: Matthew
Even though critics of trinitarians claim there is a mountain of historical evidence, there actually isn't. Another answer on this site lays out the manuscripts of Matthew. No manuscript of Matthew is known that has the short form of the verse. Even though the critical texts used by scholars lay out all kinds of textual variants throughout the NT, my copy of NA-27 does not list any variants on Matthew 28:19. Even though it lists out variants on 18 and 20, there are none for 19. When looking beyond Greek, all ancient translations have the long reading of Matthew (Latin, Syriac, etc).

One might point out the Hebrew translation of Matthew known as Shem Tob. While it does not have the long reading, it does not count for several reasons.

  1. It dates from the late 1300s (the medieval period, not antiquity). Far too late to be of any significant textual help.
  2. It doesn't even have the short reading of "baptizing in my name." Instead, Matt 28:19-20 reads "Go and teach them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever." It mentions nothing of baptizing at all.
Bart Ehrman, a noted textual critic who is neither a Christian nor a trinitarian (in fact, he describes himself as an agnostic) agrees that the long form of the verse is original. The same blog reproducing Ehrman on this passage has a statement from another New Testament scholar who is also an authority on Eusebius. He notes:

  1. Eusebius' short form (Demonstratio 3.6, 7(bis); 9.11; Hist. Eccl. III.5.2; Psalms 65.6; 67.34; 76.20 (59.9 not the same reading); Isaiah 18.2; 34.16 (v.l.); Theophania 4.16; 5.17; 5.46; 5.49; Oratio 16.8) is the only textual evidence for the short reading
  2. Eusebius tends to abbreviate elsewhere
  3. Eusebius quotes the long form in Contra Marcellum I.1.9; I.1.36; Theologia III. 5.22; EpCaesarea 3 (Socrates, Eccl.Hist 1.8); Psalms 117.1-4; and Theophania 4.8
It is worth noting that Eusebius in Demonstratio Evangelica, one of the places where he is supposed to be quoting the short version of Matthew 28:19, also "quotes" Philippians 2:9. However, the statement is certainly not a quotation:

Eusebius writes is as:

God bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth.

However, the full text is:

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Eusebius is certainly refering to Phil 2:9f, but his writing of it is not a quotation.

Manuscript Evidence II: Quotation from the Church Fathers
Text critics don't just look at manuscripts of the text. They also examine quotations of passages in early writers. All quotations of Matthew 28:19 that include the "name" formula have the long version and not the short.

  • Didache 7:1 Concerning baptism, you should baptize this way: After first explaining all things, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water
  • Tertullain On Baptism paragraph 13 Go, he says, teach the nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
  • Tertullian Against Praxeas, chapter 2 says, "After His resurrection ..He commands them to baptize into the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost".
  • Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-265 AD) in A Sectional Confession of Faith, XIII
  • Hippolytus (170-236 AD says in Fragments: Part II.-Dogmatical and Historical.--Against the Heresy of One Noetus,
  • Cyprian (200-258AD) in The Seventh Council of Carthage Under Cyprian
  • and others
In total, searching only those Fathers prior to Nicea, I found 24 quotations of Matthew 28:19 using the full formula. There were no quotations amongst these writers with the short version. There were also quotations of the verse where they stopped prior to the list of names (i.e. "he commanded us to teach all nations"). I did not count those. In several of these, the full quote provides the basis for the argument supplied in the rest of the paragraph.

Triune Formulas Elsewhere in the New Testament
Even if Matthew 28:19 as we now know it is an addition, that does not eliminate the other trinitarian formulas present in the New Testament.

  • At the baptism of Jesus, all three persons are present (Matthew 3:16-17; Mark 1:10-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:32).
  • 2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you
  • 1 Peter 1:2-3a ...who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood: May grace and peace be yours in abundance. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
Logical Evidence
A third way in which the longer form can be seen to be original is to simply apply logic to the argument for the shorter as a conspiracy. The argument is that some faction of the Church (obviously representing the majority as this view won):

  1. Wanted the trinity formula in Matthew.
  2. Willfully altered manucsripts of Matthew 28:19.
  3. Sought out and destroyed all manuscripts of Matthew 28:19 containing the short reading.
  4. Then went through the writings of the Ante-Nicean Fathers and altered their quotations of Matthew, destroying all other copies.
However, these conspirators, who had so little respect for Scripture that they altered it and were so careful as to destroy every copy of Matthew with the short reading, left intact the so-called original verse in Luke 24:47 (which is not a baptismal formula and is not a parallel to Matthew 28:19)* and all references to Jesus' name baptism in Acts and the Epistles! If this willful alteration is being done in Matthew, why stop there? Why not change Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 8:12, 16; 10:48; and 19:5? These five verses in Acts all refer to Jesus' name baptism or being baptized in Jesus' name (once, in the name of our Lord). None of them have textual variants of a trinitarian formula. Logically, if the conspirators made the change once, they would make the change in other places. At the time which this conspiracy is supposed to have taken place (Nicea, AD 325), the de-facto canon had been used and recognized since Iraneus. Matthew, Luke, and Acts were already recognized as Scripture.

*Matthew 28 takes place in Galillee while Luke's is in Jerusalem. Luke contains only statements of repentance and remission of sins while Matthew also speaks of teaching and baptism.

Another failing of this conspiracy is that they missed Eusebius, one of their contemporaries. Eusebius was a trinitarian and a powerful figure in the church. Yet, while they changed all quotations of Matthew 28:19 from the short to long in all the Ante-Nicean Church Fathers, they missed a few places in Eusebius but got his others. How did they manage to get all of the others yet miss some of one of their own?

If this were a conspiracy, it was a rather inept conspiracy as it left intact so many other verses in Scripture while managing to replace all versions of Matthew 28:19 with the new one.
 
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Truther

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Manuscript Evidence I: Matthew
Even though critics of trinitarians claim there is a mountain of historical evidence, there actually isn't. Another answer on this site lays out the manuscripts of Matthew. No manuscript of Matthew is known that has the short form of the verse. Even though the critical texts used by scholars lay out all kinds of textual variants throughout the NT, my copy of NA-27 does not list any variants on Matthew 28:19. Even though it lists out variants on 18 and 20, there are none for 19. When looking beyond Greek, all ancient translations have the long reading of Matthew (Latin, Syriac, etc).

One might point out the Hebrew translation of Matthew known as Shem Tob. While it does not have the long reading, it does not count for several reasons.

  1. It dates from the late 1300s (the medieval period, not antiquity). Far too late to be of any significant textual help.
  2. It doesn't even have the short reading of "baptizing in my name." Instead, Matt 28:19-20 reads "Go and teach them to carry out all the things which I have commanded you forever." It mentions nothing of baptizing at all.
Bart Ehrman, a noted textual critic who is neither a Christian nor a trinitarian (in fact, he describes himself as an agnostic) agrees that the long form of the verse is original. The same blog reproducing Ehrman on this passage has a statement from another New Testament scholar who is also an authority on Eusebius. He notes:

  1. Eusebius' short form (Demonstratio 3.6, 7(bis); 9.11; Hist. Eccl. III.5.2; Psalms 65.6; 67.34; 76.20 (59.9 not the same reading); Isaiah 18.2; 34.16 (v.l.); Theophania 4.16; 5.17; 5.46; 5.49; Oratio 16.8) is the only textual evidence for the short reading
  2. Eusebius tends to abbreviate elsewhere
  3. Eusebius quotes the long form in Contra Marcellum I.1.9; I.1.36; Theologia III. 5.22; EpCaesarea 3 (Socrates, Eccl.Hist 1.8); Psalms 117.1-4; and Theophania 4.8
It is worth noting that Eusebius in Demonstratio Evangelica, one of the places where he is supposed to be quoting the short version of Matthew 28:19, also "quotes" Philippians 2:9. However, the statement is certainly not a quotation:

Eusebius writes is as:

God bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth.

However, the full text is:

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Eusebius is certainly refering to Phil 2:9f, but his writing of it is not a quotation.

Manuscript Evidence II: Quotation from the Church Fathers
Text critics don't just look at manuscripts of the text. They also examine quotations of passages in early writers. All quotations of Matthew 28:19 that include the "name" formula have the long version and not the short.

  • Didache 7:1 Concerning baptism, you should baptize this way: After first explaining all things, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in flowing water
  • Tertullain On Baptism paragraph 13 Go, he says, teach the nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
  • Tertullian Against Praxeas, chapter 2 says, "After His resurrection ..He commands them to baptize into the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost".
  • Gregory Thaumaturgus (205-265 AD) in A Sectional Confession of Faith, XIII
  • Hippolytus (170-236 AD says in Fragments: Part II.-Dogmatical and Historical.--Against the Heresy of One Noetus,
  • Cyprian (200-258AD) in The Seventh Council of Carthage Under Cyprian
  • and others
In total, searching only those Fathers prior to Nicea, I found 24 quotations of Matthew 28:19 using the full formula. There were no quotations amongst these writers with the short version. There were also quotations of the verse where they stopped prior to the list of names (i.e. "he commanded us to teach all nations"). I did not count those. In several of these, the full quote provides the basis for the argument supplied in the rest of the paragraph.

Triune Formulas Elsewhere in the New Testament
Even if Matthew 28:19 as we now know it is an addition, that does not eliminate the other trinitarian formulas present in the New Testament.

  • At the baptism of Jesus, all three persons are present (Matthew 3:16-17; Mark 1:10-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:32).
  • 2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you
  • 1 Peter 1:2-3a ...who have been chosen and destined by God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ and to be sprinkled with his blood: May grace and peace be yours in abundance. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!
Logical Evidence
A third way in which the longer form can be seen to be original is to simply apply logic to the argument for the shorter as a conspiracy. The argument is that some faction of the Church (obviously representing the majority as this view won):

  1. Wanted the trinity formula in Matthew.
  2. Willfully altered manucsripts of Matthew 28:19.
  3. Sought out and destroyed all manuscripts of Matthew 28:19 containing the short reading.
  4. Then went through the writings of the Ante-Nicean Fathers and altered their quotations of Matthew, destroying all other copies.
However, these conspirators, who had so little respect for Scripture that they altered it and were so careful as to destroy every copy of Matthew with the short reading, left intact the so-called original verse in Luke 24:47 (which is not a baptismal formula and is not a parallel to Matthew 28:19)* and all references to Jesus' name baptism in Acts and the Epistles! If this willful alteration is being done in Matthew, why stop there? Why not change Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 8:12, 16; 10:48; and 19:5? These five verses in Acts all refer to Jesus' name baptism or being baptized in Jesus' name (once, in the name of our Lord). None of them have textual variants of a trinitarian formula. Logically, if the conspirators made the change once, they would make the change in other places. At the time which this conspiracy is supposed to have taken place (Nicea, AD 325), the de-facto canon had been used and recognized since Iraneus. Matthew, Luke, and Acts were already recognized as Scripture.

*Matthew 28 takes place in Galillee while Luke's is in Jerusalem. Luke contains only statements of repentance and remission of sins while Matthew also speaks of teaching and baptism.

Another failing of this conspiracy is that they missed Eusebius, one of their contemporaries. Eusebius was a trinitarian and a powerful figure in the church. Yet, while they changed all quotations of Matthew 28:19 from the short to long in all the Ante-Nicean Church Fathers, they missed a few places in Eusebius but got his others. How did they manage to get all of the others yet miss some of one of their own?

If this were a conspiracy, it was a rather inept conspiracy as it left intact so many other verses in Scripture while managing to replace all versions of Matthew 28:19 with the new one.
Buncha extra Biblical rhetoric.

Matt 28:19 is in the Bible, lest our Bible is to be ripped to shreds, one scripture at a time.

God set us up right in these last days.

The tares debunk the name of Jesus, plain and simple.

The wheat baptizes in the name of Jesus, plain and simple.

The tares were booby trapped by Matt 28:19, by Jesus.

Repent, tares.
 

Marymog

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Buncha extra Biblical rhetoric.

Matt 28:19 is in the Bible, lest our Bible is to be ripped to shreds, one scripture at a time.

God set us up right in these last days.

The tares debunk the name of Jesus, plain and simple.

The wheat baptizes in the name of Jesus, plain and simple.

The tares were booby trapped by Matt 28:19, by Jesus.

Repent, tares.
Acts 2:38
 
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BreadOfLife

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The command of Peter in verse 38 to repent included infants in verse 39?
Is that what the RCC teaches?
Do you attend these courses without disputing this idea?
"Once a Catholic always a Catholic"?
"I was born a Catholic and I will die a Catholic"?
You need to repent, Catholic.
I don't mean repent to the priest in the black box, but to God.
Sooooo - doies this mean that yoi CAN'T answer my question about your idiotiuc claim that Peter was ONLY addressijg adults at Pentecost in Acts 2?

I keep thining that MAYBE onw day you'll have the guts - or the brains to actually answer one of my questions.
But - I'm not holding my breath, Einstein . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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God has a Mama?
Would that make 4 persons in the Godhead?
Yikes.
Maybe the Holy Ghost is Mary?
Oh no, I started a new RCC doctrine...
Yup - and her name is "Mary."

You see, my woefully-ignorant friend - Jesus us God (John 1:1)..
Mary gave birth to Jesus - who is God.
Ergo, she is His mother, Einstein . . .

Try this one on for size whul you're sitting there drooling on yourself . . .
Luke 1:43
And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Can't argue with Scripture, Einstein . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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How did I say that? Abraham and God agreed in covenant that Abraham should circumcise all his house.
WRONG.

Gen. 17:10 explicitly states:
This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

EVERY Jewish male entered into this covenant WITH God at the age of 8-days-old.
HOW is this possible when YOU made the idiotic claij that infgants cannot be Baptized because they canbnot understand?

YOU'VE got soom splainin' top do . . .
I know he did, he is the only one in the Bible ever do this in this manner, making himself father after the Spirit. A single witness is confirmation of nothing, on the other hand, the Witness of the Word is all the confirmation you need:
Then, you're calling the Holy Spirit a liar because HE is the Author of Scripture.
Paul simply wrote down what he was inspired to write by the Holy Spirit.

Your answer is among the most idiotic debate responses I've ever read,
That is simply not possible, you can't have Jesus saying not to call them father, and latter on the opposite. The Spirit can't contradict Himself, so one has to give, as for me, I will trust in the LORD.
Then YOU will have to explain why Jesus called Abraham "Father" as I showed you in John 8:56.

This is the easiest debate I've ever had because you're just not that bright . . .
God is uncreatted. She is the Mother of the Man Jesus after the flesh, because the soul of Jesus is the uncreated Word.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Jesus is FULLY God and FULLY Man.
He is the Anthropos - the God-Man - the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

Mary gave birth to the PERSON of Jesus - NOT to a "nature". She is the Mother of God because Jesus is GOD. Filled with the Holy Spirit - Elizabath calles her the "mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43).
 
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Truther

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Sooooo - doies this mean that yoi CAN'T answer my question about your idiotiuc claim that Peter was ONLY addressijg adults at Pentecost in Acts 2?

I keep thining that MAYBE onw day you'll have the guts - or the brains to actually answer one of my questions.
But - I'm not holding my breath, Einstein . . .
Are you saying the Peter preached to 3000 infant aged murderers of Jesus at Pentecost?

I would not put that past the RCC one little bit.

An infant uprising...

Quite an imagination, Catholic.
 

Truther

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Yup - and her name is "Mary."

You see, my woefully-ignorant friend - Jesus us God (John 1:1)..
Mary gave birth to Jesus - who is God.
Ergo, she is His mother, Einstein . . .

Try this one on for size whul you're sitting there drooling on yourself . . .
Luke 1:43
And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Can't argue with Scripture, Einstein . . .
Was Mary the mother of divinity or the mother of the last Adam(human being)?
 

BreadOfLife

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Are you saying the Peter preached to 3000 infant aged murderers of Jesus at Pentecost?
I would not put that past the RCC one little bit.
An infant uprising...
Quite an imagination, Catholic.
First of all - Peter preached to WAY more than just 3000 people. There were Jewish pilgrims there "from every nation under Heaven" (Acts 2:5).
About 3000 were BAPTIZED (Acts 2:41) - but there were many more in Jerusalem that day.

Are YOU saying that there was an "ADLTS ONLY" crowd policy in Jerusalem??
That's pretty stupid - even for you . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Was Mary the mother of divinity or the mother of the last Adam(human being)?
She is the mother of the PERSON, Jesus.
And, just like the heretic Nestorius - YOU are attempyting to separate His TWO natures.

So, just like the Council of Ephesus in 431 - I will educate you about the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ. He is FULLY Man and He is FULL God - and these 2 natures are indivisible.
Answer me this, Einstein: WHEN did Jesus become God?
a) BBEFORE He was in the womb, He wasa always God.
b) DURING His time in ythe womb, He became God.
c) Sometime AFTER he was born, He became God.

Even your own mother didn't give birth to a "nature" - she gave birth to a PERSON.
And NOT a very bright one at that . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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It's important to realize that this particular verse was changed by the Roman church early in the second century. The original read..."Baptizing them in My name." That is the name of Jesus. We know this verse was altered because of early Christian writers who quoted the verse in its original form. It makes no sense that Jesus would use the wording that we see in Catholic creedal statements. We are told in Acts that there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven with which people can be saved.

The Father is not a name. The Son is not a name. The Spirit is not a name. Jesus, on the other hand...IS a name.
Sooo - YOU can produce an original manuscript?
Because NONE exists.

Thank you for that fairy tale - but the plan facts are this:
100%
of the manuscript evidence of Mathhew's Gospel supports the Trinitatian Baptismal formula of: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
This fairly recently invented hiustory that you are peddling is a product of anti-Trinitarians, Modalists and others.

It hasa already been explained here to you and your equally-confused friends way back in the early part of this thread that the idion, "In the name of" siomply means "By the Authority of". Baptizing "in Jesus" is Baptizing by HIS Authority - and by HIS instructions in Matt. 28:19.

And, if you're looking to the writings of the Early Church to bolster your argument - you're out-gunned here as well.
One of the earliest Christian documents is the Didache - purported to have been written as early as 50 AD uses the Trinitarian Baptismnal formunla of: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

- Irenaeus, writing in the 2nd century uses the Triniarian Baptismal formula: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
(Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 17, Section 1).

- Justin Martyr, from the same period uses the Triniatrian formula in his writings as well.

- Origen, in his Commentary on the Gospel of Mattherw in the 3rd century also concurs with the Trinitarian formula: "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."


- Tertullian, writing in the lare 2nd and early 3rd cennturies wrote:
“For the law of baptizing has been imposed, and the formula prescribed: ‘Go,’ He saith, ‘teach the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, (Tertullian, On Baptism, Chapter 8)


You get your funny,m revisionist ideas from 4th century hisrian, Eusebius, who wrote:
Eusebius:
“But the rest of the apostles, who had been incessantly plotted against with a view to their destruction, and had been driven out of the land of Judea, went unto all nations to preach the Gospel, relying upon the power of Christ, who had said to them, ‘Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name,” (Church History, Book 3, Chapter 5, Section 2).


HOWEVER - you guys always seem leave out the fact that Eusebius ALSO wrote the more complete formula in his Letter to the Church in Caesarea:
Eusebius:
“We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, the Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in One Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, God from God, Light from Light, Life from Life, Son Only-begotten, first-born of every creature, before all the ages, begotten from the Father, by whom also all things were made; who for our salvation was made flesh, and lived among men, and suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended to the Father, and will come again in glory to judge quick and dead. And we believe also in One Holy Ghost; believing each of These to be and to exist, the Father truly Father, and the Son truly Son, and the Holy Ghost truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth His disciples for the preaching, said, ‘Go, teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,'” (Eusebius’ Letter to the Church in Caesarea).


The evidence against you4 case is overwhelming - but I don't expect you to chamge your position . . .
 

Truther

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First of all - Peter preached to WAY more than just 3000 people. There were Jewish pilgrims there "from every nation under Heaven" (Acts 2:5).
About 3000 were BAPTIZED (Acts 2:41) - but there were many more in Jerusalem that day.

Are YOU saying that there was an "ADLTS ONLY" crowd policy in Jerusalem??
That's pretty stupid - even for you . . .
Are you saying that Peter was also interacting with newborn babies per preaching Acts 2:38?

Did they too murder Jesus and ask "what shall we do"?

Are you okay today???
 

Truther

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She is the mother of the PERSON, Jesus.
And, just like the heretic Nestorius - YOU are attempyting to separate His TWO natures.

So, just like the Council of Ephesus in 431 - I will educate you about the Hypostatic Union of Jesus Christ. He is FULLY Man and He is FULL God - and these 2 natures are indivisible.
Answer me this, Einstein: WHEN did Jesus become God?
a) BBEFORE He was in the womb, He wasa always God.
b) DURING His time in ythe womb, He became God.
c) Sometime AFTER he was born, He became God.

Even your own mother didn't give birth to a "nature" - she gave birth to a PERSON.
And NOT a very bright one at that . . .
LOL(431 ad).

So begins your RCC doctrine of a Spirit God having a weak human nature(H/U).

Jesus never was God until his God resurrected him, made him an omnipresent quickening human spirit and every bit of his God fully indwelled his new, omnipresent human spirit body.(Col 2:9)

This makes the completion of the "God inside Christ" doctrine found in the Bible.

And you thought his glorification after resurrecting him was just giving him good looks and fame, as a dinky 6' man....
 

BreadOfLife

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Are you saying that Peter was also interacting with newborn babies per preaching Acts 2:38?
Did they too murder Jesus and ask "what shall we do"?
Are you okay today???
Pay attention, Einstein - because I've already shown you this more than once . . .
Acts 2:39
"For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

In other words, Einstein - Peter just told the crowd: "This promise is for you and for your kids and ANYBODY else who God wants."

And yet, YOU actually beleve that ALL of the kids were in day care that day and weren't with their parants? Or, in the depths of your ignorance - did you actually think hat they were all childless adults?

And when are you going to answer my question about HOW all of thgose 8-day-old babies entered into a Covenant with God in the OT?
 

BreadOfLife

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LOL(431 ad).
So begins your RCC doctrine of a Spirit God having a weak human nature(H/U).
Jesus never was God until his God resurrected him, made him an omnipresent quickening human spirit and every bit of his God fully indwelled his new, omnipresent human spirit body.(Col 2:9)
This makes the completion of the "God inside Christ" doctrine found in the Bible.
And you thought his glorification after resurrecting him was just giving him good looks and fame, as a dinky 6' man....
THANK YOU for this idiotic diatribe because it’s like shootin’ fish in a barrel . . .
The Son was God BEFORE he became flesh:

John 1:1, 14
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD.


And the Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So, let’s summarize, Einstein:
a) The Son is the Word.
b) The Word is GOD.

And yet YOU think that God is lying.

Good luck telling HIM that at your judgement . . .
 

Truther

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Pay attention, Einstein - because I've already shown you this more than once . . .
Acts 2:39
"For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”

In other words, Einstein - Peter just told the crowd: "This promise is for you and for your kids and ANYBODY else who God wants."

And yet, YOU actually beleve that ALL of the kids were in day care that day and weren't with their parants? Or, in the depths of your ignorance - did you actually think hat they were all childless adults?

And when are you going to answer my question about HOW all of thgose 8-day-old babies entered into a Covenant with God in the OT?
I see what the RCC is saying now...


38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you, INCLUDING YOU SINFUL INFANTS in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your INFANT children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


LOL
 

Truther

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THANK YOU for this idiotic diatribe because it’s like shootin’ fish in a barrel . . .
The Son was God BEFORE he became flesh:

John 1:1, 14
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the WORD WAS GOD.


And the Word (God) became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son[d] from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So, let’s summarize, Einstein:
a) The Son is the Word.
b) The Word is GOD.

And yet YOU think that God is lying.

Good luck telling HIM that at your judgement . . .
Wrong.

The son was born before anything else per Col 1.

The son was also the first to die before anything else per Rev 13.

The son was also the first to resurrect, even before any OT persons.

God knew Jesus, the man, from the foundation of the world.

God transcends time.

You think all this was the 2nd person of a trinity having a "human attachment" dangling from his Spirit person.

Ick!
 
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