Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Are they turning to God or is their memories of the temple, aka the wall, their idol?
Thousands of Israeli people Praying at the Western Wall
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Many Muslims have genuine hearts toward God. They are serious in their worship, and more committed to Allah than many Christian vs are to Jesus. So God is granting them dreams. A man in a white robe leading them to Himself, Isa Al-Masih Amy the Injil, the gospel. 7
Only God knows where their heart is...I don't know what purpose is behind their actions...I do know the reporter mentioned a Jewish holiday...Yom Kipper maybe....but I also discern in my spirit that they are truly seeking Him...and those who have already converted to Christianity are evangelizing throughout Israel and winning many to the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
He hasn't asked any questions except about toilet paper.
And in all honesty this type of posts are a distraction from the actual topic at hand.
You seem to understand where he is coming from.....and Aussies have the Bible to look to for truth like all other Christians and if they don't then they shouldn't be interjecting their opinions on the Bible Study Forum....
What I hope to see is scriptures added that further the study pertaining to the OP.
I take Bible study serious and would appreciate if those participating would do so as well.
One of the cross references to Hosea's prophesy is found in Isaiah. Verse 26 especially prophetically speaks of binding up the breach of His people and healing their wounds.
Isaiah 30 (KJV)
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¹ Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
…
¹⁵ For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
¹⁶ But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.
¹⁷ One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
¹⁸ And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
¹⁹ For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
²⁰ And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
²¹ And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
²² Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.
²³ Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
²⁴ The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.
²⁵ And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
²⁶ Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
Isaiah 30 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
…
¹⁵ For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
¹⁶ But ye said, No; for we will flee upon horses; therefore shall ye flee: and, We will ride upon the swift; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.
¹⁷ One thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one; at the rebuke of five shall ye flee: till ye be left as a beacon upon the top of a mountain, and as an ensign on an hill.
¹⁸ And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
¹⁹ For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
²⁰ And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:
²¹ And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
²² Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.
²³ Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
²⁴ The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.
²⁵ And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
²⁶ Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
When people take themselves too seriously they loose perspective. Why? because ego eclipses the possibility of seeing otherwise. Their own particular tunnel vision impedes lateral thought.
If you want to discuss philosophy and psychology then start your own thread in another forum.
Your opinion matters but not here and not to me...if you think your intellect has helped others gain perspective and wisdom concerning scripture then you have been deceived by your own self pride.
Scripture interprets scripture...are you here to get attention for yourself or study scripture?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Cool backlit, I’m not here to judge them. However I can’t deny the savior either. Love for God and for all people is the primary call for the Christian. Thank you for sharing.
Mat 22:29: "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God."
You are ignorant of the scripture, because you choose to be. This is why you do not understand.
John 1:5: "And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
Jesus is Israel, but you refuse this.
https://archive.org/download/the-real-israel-jesus/The Real Israel - Jesus.png
They after the flesh are done as a nation.
Rom 9:6: "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"
What you see praying to stock and stone are not God's people.
Jer 2:27: "Saying to a stock, Thou art my father; and to a stone, Thou hast brought me forth: for they have turned their back unto me, and not their face: but in the time of their trouble they will say, Arise, and save us."
They do not worship my God.
Deu 32:31: "For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges."
They will wail yet louder still to come because they repent not of their rebellion against heaven.
Rev 1:7: "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
They reject the offer that God provided in His Son. They are hopeless because they choose to be hopeless.
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Well our present day translations do not take it seriously when the provide the following paraphrased wording like this: -
Rom 11:25: - 25 Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
ESV
Rom 11:25: - 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.NKJV
Rom 11:25-26: - 25 I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.New Living Translation
Rom 11:25-26: - 25 For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won’t imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra’el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness;CJB
It is my opinion that the above translation of the Greek text has it all wrong. It speak of the supposed theory that the "Save" Gentiles have to all come into salvation, before Israel will be saved at all. If I was to translation the Greek words that have been translated above in the translations quoted above, the context of the Greek text would be in agreement in the English translation paraphrase as well. It is my view that it would have the following context: -
until when the fullness, with respect to time, of the heathen Gentiles, has run its full course to completion.
The above passage is a reference to the 2,300 year prophecy of the Gentiles trampling God's sanctuary and God's earthly hosts, i.e. Israel, for a period period of 2,300 years. It is my view that the Trampling of God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts began when the Greek King of Alexandra asked the religious scholars of Israel to translate their holy scriptures into the Greek language.
The trampling will end when God judges the heavenly hosts on high in heaven, and the kings of the earth on the earth at Armageddon for the parts that they respectfully played in trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts over the prophetic 2,300 year period. Revelation 16:12-16 speaks of this gathering of the kings of the earth and Isaiah 24:21-23 also speaks of this time of judgement where the judged heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth will be gathered together and imprisoned for many days in a pit to await the time of their punishment.
Again if we go to Ezekiel 34:11-16 God speaks of gathering Israel to Himself and planting them in a fertile field and that He will teach them about the Religion of Christ in metaphorical language. My paraphrasing of this passage would read like this with the two corrections that I believe are necessary: -
God, the True Shepherd
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them to/into their own land/fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country/earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them to/into their own land/fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country/earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
My Paraphrase
It is my view that God wants the Nation of Israel to remain scattered throughout the whole earth for them to become a blessing for all of the nations of the Earth.
Yes it is good that there were many people praying at the western wall in Jerusalem, but sadly they are trying to force God's hand to redeem them. The tradition of our scholars push for a return of Israel to the Land of Canaan, to their "Promised Land," which God forcibly took from them because of their idolatrous worship over the first two ages of their existence. In a little while the third and the four age of the visitation of their iniquities upon the father's children, and the children's children will come to an end after which time God will hear from heaven of their desire to return to Him. However, the Israelis are still practicing their idolatrous worship of which they have to repent of first.
The picture of all of the people at the western wall praying only caused me to grieve for them.
Shalom
The Religious (Non-Christian) Jews just have not had their eyes opened to who the Messiah is yet, however they still believe in Jehovah the God of Jacob, Abraham, Moses, the God who created the Heavens and the Earth.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Do you understand that the Israel of God is made up of peoples from all tribes, nations, and tongues maam? Fleshly Israel has nothing to do with Jehovah any longer. Some of the Israel of God are citizens of the nation of Israel however, but the nation is of no religious significance to God.
That was Jesus, whom they refuse.
Col 1:16: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
Why promote Catholicism's nonsensical theology?
Scripture says:
John 17:3: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
They do not believe in the God of the Torah, neither Tanakh, for God always had a Son.
Zech 13:7: "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
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Subjective nonsense. You 'discern in [your] spirit'? You know 'cause you just have a good feeling about it? You know, 'cause you know you know? Is it like a 'burning in the bosom' to quote an equally ridiculous phrase?
H2S:
Hosea 14: 1-8 prophecy - this is the promise of a returning remnant of National Jews back to God.
The promise of a 'return' was for a future generation from the time of Hosea...and not for today..
This prophecy was targeted and fulfilled for a remnant of National Jews during the time of Christ and his generation.
The two major themes are repentance and restoration. A remnant will turn to Christ during his generation and be restored into the tree of life and the family of God as any believer in this world of nations.
The fulfillment of this prophecy began with the birth and life of Yahshua and initially fulfilled at Pentecost. This prophecy was completely fulfilled in the consummation of Christ’s kingdom in heaven, and after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Paul speaks of this event and says he knows for sure how many of National Israel will be saved, the remnant, the 'all' of 'Israel' will be saved, upon Christ's return - when the exact number of believers of all the nations (gentiles) are reached.
That age of the OT, and with its separate and chosen people of the tribes of National Israel were permanently rescinded and forgotten by God with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. All must be now in Christ, regardless of your DNA and ancestry.
All of these National Jews were now part of the nations (gentiles) of the world as believers only, and no other labels attached. No more National Jew designation as many still make this claim today. No more separate, and chosen national Jew recognition. All were now believers in Christ or non-believers, as any people in the world. Christ died for all tribes of the world, whether they believe and have faith in him or not. It is up to God the Father, and his purpose, who knows all that shall come to his Son and his Christ.
Therefore, there are No national Jews living today, period, despite a political State that today exists in Palestine who call themselves Israelis (not Israelites).
So why still consider people that say they are Jews, regardless of were they live, as being recognized by God as National Jews? He does not recognize this 'new' designation per scripture and based on the blessed and saving gospel. If we are truly saved and knowing the gospel then we should also know there are no National Jews today recognized by God. Why persist with this confusion?
Breakout of the verse in your OP..
Verse 1. The command to “return” to be converted.
Verse 2. National Israel needs to bring to God genuine words of confession of their sin and ask for forgiveness.
Verse 3. They are to renounce seeking salvation in foreign alliances and in idolatry. They must come to God like the homeless and abandoned.
Verse 4. God promises to love them as a free gift without earning or working for his love.
Verses 5-7. Lebanon was a greener and possessed a richer farmland than Israel, and used here as a symbol of the different blessings of God that will come in the future for those who turn in believe and then faith in him. Farming was a typically used to show blessings with agricultural abundance. The audience knew that this kind of language was symbolic of many other sorts of blessings and not limited to material things.
Verse 8. The tribe of Ephraim is to mean the heart of the North. The promise of God, after their current exile is over, when his people would no longer practice the idolatry that had so long led them astray. Then those who had brought the fruit of their lips (see verse 2 again) would enjoy the fruit of God - his many rich blessings...
This Hosea prophecy was fulfilled nearly 2000 years ago.
bbyrd009
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