What is the meaning of Tartarus

[RR144]

"For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment." - 2 Pet. 2:4—Holman margin)?

The noun tartarus, or tartaros, was used in Grecian mythology as the name for a dark abyss or prison in which wicked spirits were kept imprisoned and were punished. And when the Roman Catholic Church in the Dark Ages took over from the heathen the doctrines of the consciousness of the dead and the eternal torment of the wicked, it without Biblical warrant magnified the heathen idea of tartarus.

The noun form, tartarus, is not found in the Scriptures, but the verb form, tartaroo, taken from the same root, occurs one time, in 2 Pet. 2:4. This one verb, tartaroo, is by the translators of the King James Version rendered by five words, “cast them down to hell,”—thus including a verb, a personal pronoun, an adverb, a preposition and a noun. This fact properly arouses suspicion that some violence has been done in this translation of the verb tartaroo. If we keep in mind the basic idea of tartarus as mentioned above--a prison—and make a verb of it, we have the true meaning of the verb tartaroo, i.e., to imprison.

Thus the Apostle Peter by the verb tartaroo tells us that God imprisoned the angels that sinned (Gen. 6:2-4; 1 Pet. 3:19, 20), and he adds that they were delivered “into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”; and since the Apostle Jude (6, 7) tells us that such imprisonment lasts until the judgment of the great day (into which we have already entered), and since these fallen angels as the power of the air (Eph. 2:2; 6:12, margin) are active among humans, e.g., in demonizing people, appearing in séances and other occult practices, we conclude that earth’s atmosphere is their prison (Matt. 8:28-32; 12:22-28).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Thus the Apostle Peter by the verb tartaroo tells us that God imprisoned the angels that sinned (Gen. 6:2-4; 1 Pet. 3:19, 20), and he adds that they were delivered “into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”; and since the Apostle Jude (6, 7) tells us that such imprisonment lasts until the judgment of the great day (into which we have already entered), and since these fallen angels as the power of the air (Eph. 2:2; 6:12, margin) are active among humans, e.g., in demonizing people, appearing in séances and other occult practices, we conclude that earth’s atmosphere is their prison (Matt. 8:28-32; 12:22-28).

That in red are your own words; they are not in the scripture, nor is that opinion correct. It also appears that you believe those angels in chains are not in a pit, but walking around on the earth in our atmosphere. Am I right in what I discern you saying?

 

[RR144]

That in red are your own words; they are not in the scripture, nor is that opinion correct.

Of course, that's why it's in parenthesis.

It also appears that you believe those angels in chains are not in a pit, but walking around on the earth in our atmosphere. Am I right in what I discern you saying?

Yes. Many Old Testament scriptures speak of God doing things on the earth and we know God doesn't come down to the earth. He can accomplish His works in human affairs while remaining in heaven. Therefore, some say, the same principle applies to Jesus. This parallel is wrong. Why? Because the Scriptures do not speak of God coming down to earth to execute his works among men. But, the Scriptures do promise Jesus would return to the earth to fulfill the prophetic events related to his 2nd Advent.

 

[Nancy]

"For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment." - 2 Pet. 2:4—Holman margin)?

The noun tartarus, or tartaros, was used in Grecian mythology as the name for a dark abyss or prison in which wicked spirits were kept imprisoned and were punished. And when the Roman Catholic Church in the Dark Ages took over from the heathen the doctrines of the consciousness of the dead and the eternal torment of the wicked, it without Biblical warrant magnified the heathen idea of tartarus.

The noun form, tartarus, is not found in the Scriptures, but the verb form, tartaroo, taken from the same root, occurs one time, in 2 Pet. 2:4. This one verb, tartaroo, is by the translators of the King James Version rendered by five words, “cast them down to hell,”—thus including a verb, a personal pronoun, an adverb, a preposition and a noun. This fact properly arouses suspicion that some violence has been done in this translation of the verb tartaroo. If we keep in mind the basic idea of tartarus as mentioned above--a prison—and make a verb of it, we have the true meaning of the verb tartaroo, i.e., to imprison.

Thus the Apostle Peter by the verb tartaroo tells us that God imprisoned the angels that sinned (Gen. 6:2-4; 1 Pet. 3:19, 20), and he adds that they were delivered “into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”; and since the Apostle Jude (6, 7) tells us that such imprisonment lasts until the judgment of the great day (into which we have already entered), and since these fallen angels as the power of the air (Eph. 2:2; 6:12, margin) are active among humans, e.g., in demonizing people, appearing in séances and other occult practices, we conclude that earth’s atmosphere is their prison (Matt. 8:28-32; 12:22-28).

Interesting. Why would there be only some of the evil angels be in a pit and some within our atmosphere? Making me think here!

 

[RR144]

Interesting. Why would there be only some of the evil angels be in a pit and some within our atmosphere? Making me think here!

I never mentioned a pit. Do you have a reference? Thanks!

 

[Nancy]

I never mentioned a pit. Do you have a reference? Thanks!

So sorry, I should have used the word "prison". Brain malfunction.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Of course, that's why it's in parenthesis.

Yes. Many Old Testament scriptures speak of God doing things on the earth and we know God doesn't come down to the earth. He can accomplish His works in human affairs while remaining in heaven. Therefore, some say, the same principle applies to Jesus. This parallel is wrong. Why? Because the Scriptures do not speak of God coming down to earth to execute his works among men. But, the Scriptures do promise Jesus would return to the earth to fulfill the prophetic events related to his 2nd Advent.

I'm not referring to God or Jesus, but about the fallen angels that you say are not in a pit in chains, but above ground in our atmosphere, meaning roaming freely. Is that what you meant?

 

[Robert Gwin]

"For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment." - 2 Pet. 2:4—Holman margin)?

The noun tartarus, or tartaros, was used in Grecian mythology as the name for a dark abyss or prison in which wicked spirits were kept imprisoned and were punished. And when the Roman Catholic Church in the Dark Ages took over from the heathen the doctrines of the consciousness of the dead and the eternal torment of the wicked, it without Biblical warrant magnified the heathen idea of tartarus.

The noun form, tartarus, is not found in the Scriptures, but the verb form, tartaroo, taken from the same root, occurs one time, in 2 Pet. 2:4. This one verb, tartaroo, is by the translators of the King James Version rendered by five words, “cast them down to hell,”—thus including a verb, a personal pronoun, an adverb, a preposition and a noun. This fact properly arouses suspicion that some violence has been done in this translation of the verb tartaroo. If we keep in mind the basic idea of tartarus as mentioned above--a prison—and make a verb of it, we have the true meaning of the verb tartaroo, i.e., to imprison.

Thus the Apostle Peter by the verb tartaroo tells us that God imprisoned the angels that sinned (Gen. 6:2-4; 1 Pet. 3:19, 20), and he adds that they were delivered “into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”; and since the Apostle Jude (6, 7) tells us that such imprisonment lasts until the judgment of the great day (into which we have already entered), and since these fallen angels as the power of the air (Eph. 2:2; 6:12, margin) are active among humans, e.g., in demonizing people, appearing in séances and other occult practices, we conclude that earth’s atmosphere is their prison (Matt. 8:28-32; 12:22-28).

Great question Be, it is a judgment given to those who forsook their proper dwelling place. It was not a place, but a condition. The finalization of it will be when they are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"For if God didn’t spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment." - 2 Pet. 2:4—Holman margin)?

The noun tartarus, or tartaros, was used in Grecian mythology as the name for a dark abyss or prison in which wicked spirits were kept imprisoned and were punished. And when the Roman Catholic Church in the Dark Ages took over from the heathen the doctrines of the consciousness of the dead and the eternal torment of the wicked, it without Biblical warrant magnified the heathen idea of tartarus.

The noun form, tartarus, is not found in the Scriptures, but the verb form, tartaroo, taken from the same root, occurs one time, in 2 Pet. 2:4. This one verb, tartaroo, is by the translators of the King James Version rendered by five words, “cast them down to hell,”—thus including a verb, a personal pronoun, an adverb, a preposition and a noun. This fact properly arouses suspicion that some violence has been done in this translation of the verb tartaroo. If we keep in mind the basic idea of tartarus as mentioned above--a prison—and make a verb of it, we have the true meaning of the verb tartaroo, i.e., to imprison.

Thus the Apostle Peter by the verb tartaroo tells us that God imprisoned the angels that sinned (Gen. 6:2-4; 1 Pet. 3:19, 20), and he adds that they were delivered “into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”; and since the Apostle Jude (6, 7) tells us that such imprisonment lasts until the judgment of the great day (into which we have already entered), and since these fallen angels as the power of the air (Eph. 2:2; 6:12, margin) are active among humans, e.g., in demonizing people, appearing in séances and other occult practices, we conclude that earth’s atmosphere is their prison (Matt. 8:28-32; 12:22-28).

Well the verb form means to cast into tartarus in 2 Peter. romanism did not magnify it. Jesus taught it and Peter also taught it.

Teh angels in Jude are not the demons in the air. They are the fallen angels that came and had sex with human women in Gen. 6. So they are bound in chains of darkness ( not roaming in the atmosphere) Until they will be cast into teh Lake of fire to suffer forever!

Jesus taught the consciousness of the dead, the aposatles taught it and the Bible declares it. Teh Watchtower denies it because those false teachers know that is where they are heading.

 

[RR144]

The angels in Jude are not the demons in the air. They are the fallen angels that came and had sex with human women in Gen. 6. So they are bound in chains of darkness (not roaming in the atmosphere) Until they will be cast into the Lake of fire to suffer forever!

and what are these "chains of darkness"?

Jesus taught the consciousness of the dead, the apostles taught it and the Bible declares it.

Care to share some scriptural proofs? Thanks in advance!

The Watchtower denies it because those false teachers know that is where they are heading.

Well, this wouldn't apply to me since I'm not one of Jehovah's Witness

 

[Ronald Nolette]

and what are these "chains of darkness"?

Couldn't tell you more than what Scripture says. I could guess, but how correct I would be is unknown.

Care to share some scriptural proofs? Thanks in advance!

Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

And the account of Lazarus and the rich man. I know many consider this a parable but it is not. It has no grammatical tells to say it is a parable. But plenty of language to say it is not a parable.

1. 2 Corinthians 5:6
   Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 2 Corinthians 5:8
   We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

God, speaking through Paul clearly tells us that if we are absent from teh body, we are present with the Lord.

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

If read as written Jesus and the thief were together alive in paradise!

 

[bbyrd009]

God, speaking through Paul clearly tells us that if we are absent from teh body, we are present with the Lord

ha well or at least that we should seek to please Yah whether present or absent? Gotta love Paul lol. But id read that again wadr

 

[RR144]

Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Jesus was addressing the Sadducees who did NOT believe in the resurrection. This has nothing to do with whether or not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in heaven.

And the account of Lazarus and the rich man. I know many consider this a parable but it is not. It has no grammatical tells to say it is a parable. But plenty of language to say it is not a parable.

It's evident from the whole setting of this passage in Luke 16 that it is a parable. Otherwise the logical lesson to be drawn from it is that unless we are poor beggars, full of sores, we will never enter eternal bliss; and that future torment will be our portion if we happen to wear fine linen and purple and fare sumptuously every day. Christ in this parable was teaching a great dispensational truth, namely, the overthrow of Israel and the acceptance of the Gentiles into God's favor. If you read carefully the 32nd chapter of Deuteronomy, you'll see that Jesus was merely repeating in vivid language what Moses had already said. See in particular verses 20 to 29; and also Paul's quotation in Romans 10:21, where he shows that Moses' prophecy referred to the overthrow of Israel consequent upon the Lord Jesus' rejection of the nation.

2 Corinthians 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord

Our groaning, our earnest desire, for something future is proper. To feel comfortable and satisfied in the present life—to feel at home in the body of flesh—is wrong, and Paul was knocking those who had this philosophy. A minority of the Corinthians erroneously taught that the Christian should be content and glory in the flesh and not look for the resurrection. Their attitude was more along the lines of “eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.” If we are at home in the body, we are satisfied. Some leave the truth because they long for the former pleasures of the world. If they come to their senses, they are plucked out, but the great majority who leave do not come back, for they get steeped in the pleasures, like an addiction. Stated another way, if we give up something and then play with it again, the addiction gets a second hold that is stronger than the first. The idea is to flee from the lusts of the world. Many Christians have had this experience, which is a struggle, a warfare. Of course prayer helps. We are to set our “affection on things above, not on things on the earth” (Col. 3:2). More literally translated, the thought of verse 6 is, “Therefore, we can be sure that if we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.” It is dangerous to feel satisfied and complacent in the body. The spirit of complacency implies spiritual sleepiness.

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

God, speaking through Paul clearly tells us that if we are absent from the body, we are present with the Lord.

Notice Paul’s use of the word “confident.” He had a reason for making these statements and drumming on the lesson, which is seen later in the chapter. The Diaglott reads, “Therefore we are very ambitious ... to be acceptable to him.” In other words, our ambition, ideal, and goal are to attain the heavenly reward.

“We” refers to Paul’s associates and, hopefully, those in the class in Corinth who had the same attitude of being willing “to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” Paul was describing the ideal situation and attitude. The Christian has a high standard. “Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but [only] one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain” (1 Cor. 9:24). We are in a marathon race. A hundred-yard dash would not provide the number and the variety of experiences that we receive in a marathon, which requires great strength just to keep going. In verses 8 and 9, Paul was saying that our goal “whether present [in the flesh] or absent [from the flesh], [is that] we may be accepted of [acceptable to] him.” “We are ... willing ... to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” On another occasion, Paul said, “To live is Christ, and to die is gain” (Phil. 1:21). He would rather be gone, but he felt a responsibility to help the brethren. Therefore, he thought that perhaps the Lord was postponing the finish of his course so that he could be helpful to others

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. If read as written Jesus and the thief were together alive in paradise!

It's amazing what a comma can do. “Verily I say unto thee today, Thou shalt be with me in paradise.” Since the original Greek manuscript had no punctuation, it is permissible to move the comma. Also, the Greek allows the subject and the verb to be transposed. In other words, Jesus was saying, “I am telling you now, even though everything looks bleak as regards my claim to be the Messiah, that I am indeed he. When I establish my Kingdom, you will be remembered.” The thief could not have been with Jesus in paradise that day, because Jesus was in the tomb parts of three days and nights. And even those who think, according to orthodox theology, that Jesus did not die but went to visit the spirits in prison would have a contradiction with his going to paradise that very day.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

ha well or at least that we should seek to please Yah whether present or absent? Gotta love Paul lol. But id read that again wadr

I have read it hundreds of times and to be absent from the body (dying physically) is to be present with the Lord!

 

[farouk]

I have read it hundreds of times and to be absent from the body (dying physically) is to be present with the Lord!

@Ronald Nolette I think the RC requiem includes the word 'tartarus'. Whereas the NT believer's hope us truly to be present with the Lord, having relied on His finished work at the Cross, once absent from the body...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus was addressing the Sadducees who did NOT believe in the resurrection. This has nothing to do with whether or not Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are in heaven.

And Jesus rebukes their concept of soul sleep! It is Jesus who declared that they were living and not dead! doesn't matter who He was addressing- He spoke truth!

It's evident from the whole setting of this passage in Luke 16 that it is a parable. Otherwise the logical lesson to be drawn from it is that unless we are poor beggars, full of sores, we will never enter eternal bliss; and that future torment will be our portion if we happen to wear fine linen and purple and fare sumptuously every day. Christ in this parable was teaching a great dispensational truth, namely, the overthrow of Israel and the acceptance of the Gentiles into God's favor. If you read carefully the 32nd chapter of Deuteronomy, you'll see that Jesus was merely repeating in vivid language what Moses had already said. See in particular verses 20 to 29; and also Paul's quotation in Romans 10:21, where he shows that Moses' prophecy referred to the overthrow of Israel consequent upon the Lord Jesus' rejection of the nation.

WOW that is the most fanciful reinterpretation yet! If this was a parable, there were no comparative words used as in all the other parables! words like "like" "such as" "is as" "can be likened unto".

No other parable did Jesus say "there was a man" with out using comparative language to tell his hearers it was just a story.

The Jews except for the Herodians and Sadducees believed in the soul going to Abrahams Bosom.

He is not comparing anything with anything else like all other parables!

So linguistically, grammatically and histgorically, there is no reason to think this is not an account of two men.

Our groaning, our earnest desire, for something future is proper. To feel comfortable and satisfied in the present life—to feel at home in the body of flesh—is wrong, and Paul was knocking those who had this philosophy. A minority of the Corinthians erroneously taught that the Christian should be content and glory in the flesh and not look for the resurrection. Their attitude was more along the lines of “eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.” If we are at home in the body, we are satisfied. Some leave the truth because they long for the former pleasures of the world. If they come to their senses, they are plucked out, but the great majority who leave do not come back, for they get steeped in the pleasures, like an addiction. Stated another way, if we give up something and then play with it again, the addiction gets a second hold that is stronger than the first. The idea is to flee from the lusts of the world. Many Christians have had this experience, which is a struggle, a warfare. Of course prayer helps. We are to set our “affection on things above, not on things on the earth” (Col. 3:2). More literally translated, the thought of verse 6 is, “Therefore, we can be sure that if we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.” It is dangerous to feel satisfied and complacent in the body. The spirit of complacency implies spiritual sleepiness.

While we are alive it is a future event. But the moment we die physically, a believer goes to be with the Lord. that is what Paul simply said without any slick philosophical reinterpreting it.

And your teaching on this verse is hogwash. It says nothing like that. It is not a mysterious, encoded, or complicate message. Paul was simply saying He wished to be absent from His body and to be present with the Lord!

If you cannot accept the bible as written, why should I accept your words as written? Is there a secret message I need to decode i nyou rwords like you do with the bible?

It's amazing what a comma can do. “Verily I say unto thee today, Thou shalt be with me in paradise.” Since the original Greek manuscript had no punctuation, it is permissible to move the comma. Also, the Greek allows the subject and the verb to be transposed. In other words, Jesus was saying, “I am telling you now, even though everything looks bleak as regards my claim to be the Messiah, that I am indeed he. When I establish my Kingdom, you will be remembered.” The thief could not have been with Jesus in paradise that day, because Jesus was in the tomb parts of three days and nights. And even those who think, according to orthodox theology, that Jesus did not die but went to visit the spirits in prison would have a contradiction with his going to paradise that very day.

Or maybe follow the universal rules of grammar and leave it where it is at when translating it to English. You would make Jesus some kind of dunce if you wish to believe the Watchtower lie that Jesus was saying: "Verily, Verily, I say unto you today,". The author of human grammar simply would not make such an inane statement. Saying He added "today" makes 0 sense. Of course the theif would have known He said it today!

but as both are dying and will be dead that very day- Jesus is letting HIm know where He will meet the thief that day!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@Ronald Nolette I think the RC requiem includes the word 'tartarus'. Whereas the NT believer's hope us truly to be present with the Lord, having relied on His finished work at the Cross, once absent from the body...

Yeah I remember the old rites when I was a young lad and altar boy!

 

[Lambano]

The noun form, tartarus, is not found in the Scriptures, but the verb form, tartaroo, taken from the same root, occurs one time, in 2 Pet. 2:4. This one verb, tartaroo, is by the translators of the King James Version rendered by five words, “cast them down to hell,”—thus including a verb, a personal pronoun, an adverb, a preposition and a noun.

Thank you, Berean. I had never noticed before that ταρταρόω, "tartaroo" was a verb form before. I guess the Greeks liked to "verb" nouns, just like we do in English. (One company I previously worked for used neologisms like, "When are you going to solution that problem?" Mrs. Carlson, my high school English composition teacher, would've turned pale at that abuse of the language.)

I'd love to see "tartaroo" Anglicized. That way, when I duff my golf ball into the lake, I can yell "TARTAROO IT!" without blaspheming.

 

[bbyrd009]

So linguistically, grammatically and histgorically, there is no reason to think this is not an account of two men

well, when “Lazarus” is revealed as “Eleazar” that might change i guess?
also, funny to me that it is “the rich man and lazarus” and not the other way around, “pinky and the brain” or any other comparo that comes to mind, where the one with the name is always said first?

While we are alive it is a future event. But the moment we die physically, a believer goes to be with the Lord. that is what Paul simply said without any slick philosophical reinterpreting it

death, more abundantly? But wadr Paul never said “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” anyway, i dont think

I came that you might have life, more abundantly
.

• 2 Corinthians 5:6
  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
  In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

• 2 Corinthians 5:8
  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord

“We are cock-sure, i tell you, and would rather be dead and partying with Jesus…” although the fact that we all Quote this part and no one at all Quotes the culminating verse should be a clue imo, Therefore we seek to be pleasing whether present or absent

i notice Paul uses “we” in that sense in a couple of other places too

 

[Ronald Nolette]

well, when “Lazarus” is revealed as “Eleazar” that might change i guess?
also, funny to me that it is “the rich man and lazarus” and not the other way around, “pinky and the brain” or any other comparo that comes to mind, where the one with the name is always said first?

And you know the name change how?

And the order the names or persons mentioned is quite irrelavent.

death, more abundantly? But wadr Paul never said “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” anyway, i dont think

2 Corinthians 5
King James Version

5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Well not in those exact words I wrote, but it is the same! If he meant a future time he would have written it thus. God is not careless with Grammar when He inspires the writers.

“We are cock-sure, i tell you, and would rather be dead and partying with Jesus…” although the fact that we all Quote this part and no one at all Quotes the culminating verse should be a clue imo, Therefore we seek to be pleasing whether present or absent

i notice Paul uses “we” in that sense in a couple of other places too

Well as we are not talking abot living a pleasing life- to quote it in this discussion is irrelavent.