Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What is "disgusting" is your pontificating that God torments the spirit of man (God's own breath and image) in the lake of fire and that God does so for all eternity. Of which there is no such evidence to be found anywhere in scripture, let alone the book Revelation. You've simply conjured up this evil doctrine out of thin air. And to what end, I don't care to entertain further.

Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
Right because Isaiah 66:22-24 doesn't deal with that, nor Matthew 18:6-9 or Matthew 25:;31-46 or Mark 9:42-48, or 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, or Jude 7, or Jude 13, or Revelation 14:9-11, or Revelation 20:10, 14-15. Right NONE of those deal with eternal torment of the non-believer. :rolleyes:
 

TahitiRun

Member
Feb 28, 2022
128
21
18
AtlanticCoast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Right because Isaiah 66:22-24 doesn't deal with that, nor Matthew 18:6-9 or Matthew 25:;31-46 or Mark 9:42-48, or 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, or Jude 7, or Jude 13, or Revelation 14:9-11, or Revelation 20:10, 14-15. Right NONE of those deal with eternal torment of the non-believer. :rolleyes:
None the texts you've cited are with reference to the "spirit" of man. I'm still waiting, however.
 

TahitiRun

Member
Feb 28, 2022
128
21
18
AtlanticCoast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You realize our spirits are REUNITED with our physical bodies right? You have no idea what you are talking about.
The soul (ie: body + spirit) is separated in death exactly as stated in Ecc 12:7. The flesh returns to the earth and the spirit to God, it's eternal home. And this is true for all souls, not some but all souls.

In the resurrection of judgment (Mat 25:32-46), the spirit and flesh (the two nations/kingdoms of the soul) are gathered before Christ and are separated one from another as sheep (right hand) from goats (left hand):

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The two entities of the soul are then judged accordingly:

Concerning the spirit: Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Concerning the flesh: Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

It's clear you really do not understand what you're reading nor the parables given by Christ. You need lay your church dogma aside, start fresh and return to the book of Genesis.
 

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The soul (ie: body + spirit) is separated in death exactly as stated in Ecc 12:7. The flesh returns to the earth and the spirit to God, it's eternal home. And this is true for all souls, not some but all souls.

In the resurrection of judgment (Mat 25:32-46), the spirit and flesh (the two nations/kingdoms of the soul) are gathered before Christ and are separated one from another as sheep (right hand) from goats (left hand):

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The two entities of the soul are then judged accordingly:

Concerning the spirit: Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Concerning the flesh: Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

It's clear you really do not understand what you're reading nor the parables given by Christ. You need lay your church dogma aside, start fresh and return to the book of Genesis.
It's clear you cherry pick Scriptures and don't look at all of it.
 

TahitiRun

Member
Feb 28, 2022
128
21
18
AtlanticCoast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's clear you cherry pick Scriptures and don't look at all of it.
And yet, you've had no response to anything I've posted other than insults. I've provided you text after text, scripture upon scripture and yet, somehow, you keep returning empty handed.
 

TahitiRun

Member
Feb 28, 2022
128
21
18
AtlanticCoast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Are you kidding? I have more than addressed your slop.
LOL...no, you really haven't. What you've tried to do is regurgitate articles 31 and 32 of your confession of faith (Baptist Confession of 1689).

As an example, article 31.1-3: Contrary to your confession, the soul is not an "immortal subsistence", nor does the soul exist apart from the body + spirit, or "return to God" as such. Nor is the soul a separate entity from the body + spirit. Nor is the soul to be conflated with the spirit. Nor is the soul judged independently and "cast into hell". These ideas are not biblical, but are stated as such, or alluded to in your confession, as if they were.

Early on, I asked you to define the term "soul", by asking if you knew what the soul was. You didn't answer with scripture because you can't. Your confession of faith, if you actually hold to it, is not formulated from scripture (scripture references are cited, but the references do not support the confession), but your confession is rather influenced by ancient Greek philosophical systems and ideas (Aristotle, Plato and Socrates being examples of what they taught concerning the soul or being ensouled).

Unfortunately, some of these pagan ideas influenced the thinking and teaching of Augustine, Aquinas and the earlier RCC years with respect to their doctrine/dogma, of which in later years Calvin and Luther also accepted it, with little modification, during the reformation period, and passed it on to their followers/mentors, leading to you and your confession. In so doing, it made you and your confession twofold the child of Gehenna as it's originators (flesh gives birth to flesh, if you will):

Mat_23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
 
Last edited:

reformed1689

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2019
4,618
1,481
113
Somewhere in the USA
reformedtruths.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
LOL...no, you really haven't. What you've tried to do is regurgitate articles 31 and 32 of your confession of faith (Baptist Confession of 1689).

As an example, article 31.1-3: Contrary to your confession, the soul is not an "immortal subsistence", nor does the soul exist apart from the body + spirit, or "return to God" as such. Nor is the soul a separate entity from the body + spirit. Nor is the soul to be conflated with the spirit. Nor is the soul judged independently and "cast into hell". These ideas are not biblical, but are stated as such, or alluded to in your confession, as if they were.

Early on, I asked you to define the term "soul", by asking if you knew what the soul was. You didn't answer with scripture because you can't. Your confession of faith, if you actually hold to it, is not formulated from scripture (scripture references are cited, but the references do not support the confession), but your confession is rather influenced by ancient Greek philosophical systems and ideas (Aristotle, Plato and Socrates being examples of what they taught concerning the soul or being ensouled).

Unfortunately, some of these pagan ideas influenced the thinking and teaching of Augustine, Aquinas and the earlier RCC years with respect to their doctrine/dogma, of which in later years Calvin and Luther also accepted it, with little modification, during the reformation period, and passed it on to their followers/mentors, leading to you and your confession. In so doing, it made you and your confession twofold the child of Gehenna as it's originators (flesh gives birth to flesh, if you will):

Mat_23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
I get my arguments from Scripture, not the confessions. Thanks.
 

John Caldwell

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2019
1,704
973
113
North Augusta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
. . . God's desire for the entire human race to come to Jesus
Amen.

1 Timothy 2:1–7 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MatthewG

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
872
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Amen.

1 Timothy 2:1–7 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Hi John, I see you are also on here, as on BB!
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Caldwell

Philip James

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
4,281
3,101
113
Brandon
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Read the Account on the Marriage Feast INVITATIONS, which were REJECTED, by those to whom originally sent to! Luke 14.

Hello ByGrace,

Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These words are true; they come from God."

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ByGraceThroughFaith

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
68
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?

“And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature” (Mark 16:15)

The phrase, “παση τη κτισει”, means, “to every creature”. The use of the singular, “παση” is important, as it means that the Gospel Message is not simply a “general” one, but to “every” human being!. This is exactly what the Apostle Paul says in Colossians 1:23, “if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister”

There are some who will argue from their theology, that all this means, is, that initially the Gospel Message was intended for the Jews only, and thereafter to the Gentiles also. However, while this is true, this does not mean that there is any “limitation” on who the Gospel was to be preached to. The entire world consists of just two groups, Jews and Gentiles. If you were the one, then you were not the other. But, this is the sum-total of the entire human race, and not the “majority”, or any other distinction.

What is The Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire human race? Paul tells us this in 1 Corinthians 15:

“Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the Gospel which I preached to you... For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” (1, 3, 4)

Here it is very clear, that the Gospel Message that we are to proclaim to the entire world, is, “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”

The Gospel Message is a universal one, to be proclaimed to not just some select groups, but to the entire human race, as the Bible clearly tells us. It is important to not what this Message consists of Biblically. “that Christ died for our sins”. It is clear from this, that the OUR must include the entire human race that this Gospel Message is to be proclaimed to. There is nothing here to suggest that it is only for the “elect”! Paul says in verse 11, “Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed”. That this Message had to be “believed” in, “by which you are also saved” (verse 2). In Acts chapter 13 we read of Paul’s preaching the Gospel to some Jews, “Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles” (v.46). These Jews “rejected” this Gospel Message, and “considered themselves unworthy of eternal life”, not what God “considered”. Here we have the two groups, the Jews, and the Gentiles (non Jews), who are the entire human race.

It is the One Gospel Message of Salvation from sins in the Lord Jesus Christ, that is to be proclaimed to the entire human race. There is no indication that this Message is to be proclaimed to any “select” few, as some falsely teach. This Gospel, Good News, is only that of Salvation, and not of damnation, which is not really “Good News” for anyone. If, as some suppose, that the Gospel of Salvation is intended for the “elect” only, then why does the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, and others, use universal language, which is clearly for the entire human race? Paul is very clear of this in Romans 11:32, “For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all”. God has “concluded” that the entire human race (τους παντας) is guilty of “disobedience”, the very sin that Adam and Eve were guilty of. Again, contextually we read of the Jews and Gentiles, which, as we know, are the sum-total of the human race. There is no exception. Paul then goes on to say, “that He may show mercy to all”. Notice that the Greek here is identical to the first part, “τους παντας”. This does not teach universal salvation, which is very clear from Paul’s use of “ελεηση”, which is in the subjunctive mood, “MIGHT (not WILL) show mercy”. The sinner must “repent and believe in the Gospel” (Mark 1:15), before they can be saved, as these are the two “conditions” that God has placed for any sinners salvation.

If the Gospel Message is universal, as the Bible clearly teaches, then, it must mean that the Death of Jesus Christ is also universal, as Paul has told us what this Gospel is, “that Christ died for our sins”, which is clearly universal! To suggest otherwise, is to say that God is insincere, when He commands “that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations (παντα τα εθνη), beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:46-47) Both the Jews and the Gentiles, the entire human race!

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36)
Actually, "creature" would apply to the heavenly host as well as they remain created beings and scripture tells us that they are learning the mystery of the Gospel from us.
Just why isn't explicitly stated in scripture nor why all "creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God."

Why would all creation "eagerly" await the born again in Christ Jesus, if the born again are the only survivors of the judgment of this world?
 

TahitiRun

Member
Feb 28, 2022
128
21
18
AtlanticCoast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why would all creation "eagerly" await the born again in Christ Jesus, if the born again are the only survivors of the judgment of this world?
Well, because the children (sons) of God will not be "the only survivors" in the age of judgment.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.

All creation awaits it's final restoration, the final apokatástasis of all things:

Act 3:20 and that he may send the Christ who hath been appointed for you, even Jesus:
Act 3:21 whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of all His holy prophets that have been from of old.

Summarized: That God may be all in all, here:

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.
1Co 15:27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: michaelvpardo

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
13,907
8,826
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Is God Insincere With The Gospel Offer?
Is God a joker in this matter?