What are God's laws now for?
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FHII
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Romans 5:20 says, "Moreover, the Law entered that the offense might abound, but where sin abounded, grace did much more abound."
I couldn't answer any of the poll options...I don't think any of them are right. The Law of Moses has been fulfilled in Christ, so while technically we are no longer 'under' them, that does not mean we are free to do anything and everything.
Jesus gives us many commandments; love God, love others, do not have Idols. Basically I think the 10 Commandments are still in effect, as they give us basic truths of worshipping the one true God. But the Law of Moses has been brought to completion by Jesus...it is no longer needed.
Jesus gives us many commandments; love God, love others, do not have Idols. Basically I think the 10 Commandments are still in effect, as they give us basic truths of worshipping the one true God. But the Law of Moses has been brought to completion by Jesus...it is no longer needed.
FHII
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Hey Rach, the kitty in your avatar looks like one of mine! Too cute!!!! Jesus only gave two commandments. Love the Lord and love the brethren. Not everyone. The brothern. Who are the brethren? THose of like precious faith.
I have a lot to say about that. First, who are your brethren? Back in 1990 I didn't know God from a bird flying backwards. But I was predestinated to be one. I was still a brother, but I nor anyone else knew it. Now that scallywag on the street... Is he a brother? Who knows from one day to 20 years from now if he will or won't be? Because I'm told to love the brethren, and I don't know who they are.... I just at least treat everyone with kindness.
Why do we love the brothren as we love Christ? Ever consider that question? I have an answer, but I'd like to hear what you have to say first.
tomwebster
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The OP is talking about God's Law not the Law of Moses. There is a difference.
FHII
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1. What does "OP" mean? Seriously. I don't do well with acronyms or that kind of stuff... I don't know what OP stands for. NT, OT.... I can deal with. But what do you mean by OP?
2. Whats the difference in God's Law and the Law of Moses?
It seems to me that Moses didn't have a Law.... He just told the folks what God said.
That poor, and dear cat, went and died on me! Too bad, he was absolutely nuts, I loved him!
Now, I would have to say that Jesus also told us to love our neighbours, and our enemies...that seems to cover a whole heap of people!
As far as how we should treat others and why we love our brothers and sisters in Christ, well...I'd say we love other Christians because they are our family. Jesus sacrifice has adopted us into God's family, making God our Father. Also, Jesus obviously loves them, He has redeemed them, so we can do no less.
And as you say, how can we ultimately know if anyone we meet may indeed become a Christian? We can't, but our intent should be obvious...we hope that everyone we meet will one day call Jesus Lord. There are some people, I suppose, who embrace evil and sin, but as a general rule I think people are just lost....lost and blind. They have no idea they need Jesus, no idea that they sin, and how bad that sin is.
And finally, I would say that how we live, how we treat others...even other who disagree with us, is a reflection on our beliefs and on Christ Himself. If we are selfish jerks, it doesn't speak well to our 'new heart', etc. If we treat everyone around us, even our enemies, with love, we are showing Christ's love, His light, through our actions, words and intents.
So, how'd I do? Did I understand your question properly?
Okaaay. Can you tell me what the difference is? Because mostly, when people talk of 'God's law' they are talking of the Law that Moses gave to the Israelites.
If there is a specific difference, I'm all ears...but perhaps the OP should have made that distinction?
P.S.....OP means "Opening Post". Just FYI (for your information!!!)
Well, it's kind of like I thought. Only one person answered the poll so far. But every Christian should understand how 3 of those questions are wrong, and only one of them is correct per NT Scripture.
1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
(KJV)
Apostle Paul did a whole lot of preaching that we who have believed on Christ Jesus are as dead to the law. But he never taught that all of God's laws were dead.
What's the difference between the "law of Moses" and "God's laws"? The difference is in NT Scripture like Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2...
Col 2:14
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;
(KJV)
Eph 2:14-15
14 For He is our peace, Who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(KJV)
The commandments in ordinances have to do with all the priestly ritual and ceremonial worship in the Old Testament. Orthodox Jews believe all those ordinances are still in effect, that the Old Covenant is still in effect, which is what is popularly called the "law of Moses".
Yet Christ having nailed the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" to His cross did not do away with many of God's laws which were also given through Moses, but not specifically about Old Covenant ritualistic functions (like priestly ritual sacrifices, blood ordinances, various purity washings, offerings, tithings, etc.). Our Lord Jesus became those things, which is how it is meant that He fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(KJV)
When Paul says, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself," he is quoting directly from Leviticus 19, from God's laws. If we heed that then like he showed, doing that summarizes us fulfilling God's law.
He did not say God's laws against murder, stealing, bearing false witness, coveting, adultery, or any other like commandments are no longer in effect. One should easily know that by visiting the jails and prisons because of their breaking some of those commandments. Paul is simply teaching that IF we love our neighbor as ourself per God's commandment, then we will not be guilty of breaking those other commandments. It's that simple. That is how we in Christ Jesus then become as dead to the law like Paul also taught (Gal.5).
That is the New Covenant relationship to God's laws.
Do Christian brethren sometimes mess-up and fall under penalty of those laws? Yes, some brethren fall away and wind up in jail for... stealing as one example. The reason is because many laws in society parallel God's laws He gave through Moses. His commandment against murder is another one. We as Christians don't have to go back to the Old Testament and read that to know murder is wrong, for God has already shown us that through His Son by The Holy Spirit.
Some of men's doctrines try to hide this from Christian brethren. Some wrongly preach that a Christian regarding ANY of God's laws is an attempt to be justified by following the law. By saying that, they are actually contradicting that very commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself, for that is a commandment from God's laws, and now is a major New Covenant Doctrine for all Christians.
What about the Jews that believe on Jesus? Are they somehow different than us Gentiles in respect to God's commandments? NO. This matter is the same for all of Christ's Church. So trying to use one group of believers on Christ against another group of believers is a cop out, a false teaching from men.
What Paul shows in 1 Timothy 1 about God's laws is how they are still very much in effect for the unrighteous and unholy. That is a good thing, because it is one of the ways how our LORD protects us from the unrighteous and evil workers in this world. Travel to foreign countries which have no law structure like ours and you'll know exactly what I mean.
In Daniel 7:25 it is prophecy for the last days that a false one would come thinking to change the times and the laws. That is the real basis of those who defy the purpose that God's laws were created for. They want us Christians to turn a blind eye to the need for God's laws in our Christian society. And now, with Islamic communities popping up in the West with being allowed their Sharia laws to overtake existing law, that is a direct attack upon our nation's laws from God.
1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
(KJV)
Apostle Paul did a whole lot of preaching that we who have believed on Christ Jesus are as dead to the law. But he never taught that all of God's laws were dead.
What's the difference between the "law of Moses" and "God's laws"? The difference is in NT Scripture like Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2...
Col 2:14
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross;
(KJV)
Eph 2:14-15
14 For He is our peace, Who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(KJV)
The commandments in ordinances have to do with all the priestly ritual and ceremonial worship in the Old Testament. Orthodox Jews believe all those ordinances are still in effect, that the Old Covenant is still in effect, which is what is popularly called the "law of Moses".
Yet Christ having nailed the "law of commandments contained in ordinances" to His cross did not do away with many of God's laws which were also given through Moses, but not specifically about Old Covenant ritualistic functions (like priestly ritual sacrifices, blood ordinances, various purity washings, offerings, tithings, etc.). Our Lord Jesus became those things, which is how it is meant that He fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:8-10
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(KJV)
When Paul says, "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself," he is quoting directly from Leviticus 19, from God's laws. If we heed that then like he showed, doing that summarizes us fulfilling God's law.
He did not say God's laws against murder, stealing, bearing false witness, coveting, adultery, or any other like commandments are no longer in effect. One should easily know that by visiting the jails and prisons because of their breaking some of those commandments. Paul is simply teaching that IF we love our neighbor as ourself per God's commandment, then we will not be guilty of breaking those other commandments. It's that simple. That is how we in Christ Jesus then become as dead to the law like Paul also taught (Gal.5).
That is the New Covenant relationship to God's laws.
Do Christian brethren sometimes mess-up and fall under penalty of those laws? Yes, some brethren fall away and wind up in jail for... stealing as one example. The reason is because many laws in society parallel God's laws He gave through Moses. His commandment against murder is another one. We as Christians don't have to go back to the Old Testament and read that to know murder is wrong, for God has already shown us that through His Son by The Holy Spirit.
Some of men's doctrines try to hide this from Christian brethren. Some wrongly preach that a Christian regarding ANY of God's laws is an attempt to be justified by following the law. By saying that, they are actually contradicting that very commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself, for that is a commandment from God's laws, and now is a major New Covenant Doctrine for all Christians.
What about the Jews that believe on Jesus? Are they somehow different than us Gentiles in respect to God's commandments? NO. This matter is the same for all of Christ's Church. So trying to use one group of believers on Christ against another group of believers is a cop out, a false teaching from men.
What Paul shows in 1 Timothy 1 about God's laws is how they are still very much in effect for the unrighteous and unholy. That is a good thing, because it is one of the ways how our LORD protects us from the unrighteous and evil workers in this world. Travel to foreign countries which have no law structure like ours and you'll know exactly what I mean.
In Daniel 7:25 it is prophecy for the last days that a false one would come thinking to change the times and the laws. That is the real basis of those who defy the purpose that God's laws were created for. They want us Christians to turn a blind eye to the need for God's laws in our Christian society. And now, with Islamic communities popping up in the West with being allowed their Sharia laws to overtake existing law, that is a direct attack upon our nation's laws from God.
goodshepard55
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tomwebster
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The laws of Moses were written by Moses on paper and the laws of God were written by the hand of God, and were written on stone. The Ten Commandments are considered Gods Law.
This web site does a good job explaining the two sets of laws: http://www.preparingforeternity.com/mosevs10.htm
I have not read the other studies on this site.
God's laws (I'm assuming this is about the OT
God's laws (I'm assuming this is about the OT) were to keep the Israelites morally, spiritually, and physically healthy. God has not changed one bit. Some of the laws, such as the dietary laws don't apply now. Back then, they didn't know how these animals could harm them. We now know.
God's dietary law does still apply, we just don't always apply it. It's that we have the freedom to use it based on the situation like Paul taught.
1 Cor 10:25-28
25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
28 But if any man say unto you, "This is offered in sacrifice unto idols", eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
(KJV)
It's important to understand that God's dietary laws align with the way He created our flesh bodies to work. I was raised on country ham, sausage and biscuits and gravy for breakfast, but eating too much of it will cause health problems to our body. Because we as Christians have permission to eat outside God's clean list of foods in cases like Paul showed above, that doesn't mean its effect on our bodies no longer happens. Lot of older Christian brethren usually find that out after it's too late.
When I speak of "God's laws" about this I'm basically speaking of laws that He placed into effect for all His creation. Those laws are like natural law of how He set bounds for His creation to operate. We cannot upset those laws, for they are a firm part of His natural creation of this earth. God's health laws are aligned with true science, not moral issues.
I cannot believe that some here are still trying to force 'the works of the Law' upon us.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:
And I can't believe that a claimed believer on Christ Jesus would think they can do anything they want and get by with it.
If you heed Christ's, Apostle Paul's, and James' commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself from Leviticus 19, then you are abiding by God's law, for all the law is summarized in that commandment (like Apostle Paul said in Romans 13 and Galatians 5).
That almost sounds like a lie.
Which has nothing to do with what we eat. There are ZERO dietary restrictions in the NT.
A Christian thinking they can practice anything since having believed on Christ Jesus is a lie. It's called the "once saved, always saved" doctrine of men.
1 Tim 4:1-4
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
(KJV)
That part in bold is where Paul declared just 'which' meats he was talking about, meats which God created to be received. That very much is according to God's dietary laws first given in the Old Testament. That part is Paul's qualifier for the next verse too.
What does that have to do with me?
Actually Paul was calling dietary restrictions "doctrines of demons".
"4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:"
Col 2:16 ESV
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Ok Lord, I won't.
tomwebster
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No, Paul was not calling God's law the "doctrines of demons", and good job taking Scripture out of context again.
Col 2:16 ESV
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Ok Lord, I won't.
Hopefully nothing, that is, if you follow Christ's commandments.
Pulling that one verse apart from the 1 Timothy 4:3 verse is often done to try and make the Scripture justify us eating anything we want. Paul was specific as to which meats he was talking about with meats that God created to be received. That means strike out those meats God did NOT create to be received, for Paul was not including those in his discussion.
Paul's Message there is indeed about those today who want us to deny the eating of meats. Yet it is not about eating just any meat, for Paul was specific of which meats he was talking about. I'm not going to judge anyone for what they eat, but I won't deny how God created certain things for our body that are healthy for us either. Each believer must decide for theirself what they will do regarding this matter.
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