Remember Lot

[aspen]

I like your post Insight,

I guess I try to look for examples of love in the lives of people. Granted, the picture we see of Lot is very narrow - the guy could have been full of love - I just don't see it. The fact is, he was pretty good at looking out for his own needs, throughout the biblical account of his life. Perfect love not only casts out all fear, it leaves no room for sin; no sin equals righteousness - Paul reminds us that no man is righteous. Based on the Biblical account of Lot, he was not righteous before God, perhaps he was righteous in comparison to his generation

 

[jiggyfly]

Hello,

The difficulty with this subject is whether one takes a macro or micro view of Lot’s life. If we took a telescope and zoomed in on our lives, especially on the awful bits, how would we be viewed by the Spirit? However, should the Spirit decide to reveal those events that present us in a more favourable light? Well, you get the picture.

Did God bless Lot with a similar wealth to Abraham? We must say yes! In many ways, Abraham takes the part of the Father who was willing to sacrifice all for the welfare of Lot (us).

Aptly Lot's name means "veiled or covered", my view is it was given because he enjoyed the protection of Abram (my opinion) for most, if not all his life. And yes, he (we) made many mistakes, especially moving to Sodom, a vile city! (See Rom.11:7-8, 25; 2 Cor. 3:15,16)

Again, it is my view that Lot represents those in life who are guided by others, maybe men like yourselves have those who look up to you and see you as examples? But you see them as often failing when left to their own resources? Lot to me speaks of a man whose spiritual vision was “veiled” though he consciously understood what was right; his chosen circumstances often work against him to his hurt. It is also proved that Lot lacked the initiative that Abraham possessed, but again in our own lives we see, or, are these type of people. We can also prove that he struggled to manage his servants and asserting his authority did not come naturally, as it did Abraham.

Ultimately, if we are not able to accept the macro view of Lots’ life, as being righteous, I am left wondering how much further the Father should zoom out the telescope on my life?

“Let everyone answer in their own heart”

Insight

Very good post, I tried to generate this same thinking by my first post. Thanks Insight .

 

[Groundzero]

Lot the Judge

Has anyone ever considered the fact that Lot may have been very high up in Sodom's civil system?


Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: . . . .


Hasn't it ever struck anyone as odd that Lot should be sitting in the gate at even? Let's face it, the man had his family, and it was even, time to head inside for the night! In ancient times, the gate was a place of judgement. It was here that judges of the city would reside. Could it be that Lot was sitting at the gate because he was one of the judges?


Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge:


The probability of Lot being a judge is backed up by the statement made by the men who surrounded his house, ". . . and he will needs be a judge." Do you think that if Lot had said that for the first time, that they would get so agitated? No. They probably would have laughed! In fact, Lot, if he had been unable to reprove them in a normal situation, do you honestly think that he would suddenly have the guts to SHUT the door behind him, FACE them, and REPRIMAND them? I think not. He who cannot do that which is little, will fail in the face of the big. When Lot reproved the crowd, in their frenzy, they completely lost any self-control and wanted to do away with him. They were fed up with him reproving them.


Chances are, that with his great wealth and company of people in his tribe, Lot took a position of prominence in the city. It is more than likely that he was very vigorous in reproving the evil that he saw EVERY day.


2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)


The word 'vexed' in the above Scripture is referring to 'torture'. It's not a light word. Can you imagine what it must have been like? Day aftter day, for several years, Lot was tortured inside by what he saw! That is a sign of being righteous! Lot was righteous in every sense! He never got use to the sin and degradation, because each day, his soul was tortured by what they did. This might seem a little off what I've just been discussing, but let's think about it: If you are being stirred every day about something, would you just sit in your chair and do nothing? NO! You would act. I believe that Lot acted. He went into the area of civil matters in an attempt to straighten it out.


Perhaps we can get a grasp on the heart of this man who so many deride. His soul was tortured by the sin that he saw each day, yet, out of what must have been a sense of duty, he held on and sacrificed so much in an attempt to save the cities of the plain!

 

[Groundzero]

Hello,

The difficulty with this subject is whether one takes a macro or micro view of Lot’s life. If we took a telescope and zoomed in on our lives, especially on the awful bits, how would we be viewed by the Spirit? However, should the Spirit decide to reveal those events that present us in a more favourable light? Well, you get the picture.

Did God bless Lot with a similar wealth to Abraham? We must say yes! In many ways, Abraham takes the part of the Father who was willing to sacrifice all for the welfare of Lot (us).

Aptly Lot's name means "veiled or covered", my view is it was given because he enjoyed the protection of Abram (my opinion) for most, if not all his life. And yes, he (we) made many mistakes, especially moving to Sodom, a vile city! (See Rom.11:7-8, 25; 2 Cor. 3:15,16)

Again, it is my view that Lot represents those in life who are guided by others, maybe men like yourselves have those who look up to you and see you as examples? But you see them as often failing when left to their own resources? Lot to me speaks of a man whose spiritual vision was “veiled” though he consciously understood what was right; his chosen circumstances often work against him to his hurt. It is also proved that Lot lacked the initiative that Abraham possessed, but again in our own lives we see, or, are these type of people. We can also prove that he struggled to manage his servants and asserting his authority did not come naturally, as it did Abraham.

Ultimately, if we are not able to accept the macro view of Lots’ life, as being righteous, I am left wondering how much further the Father should zoom out the telescope on my life?

“Let everyone answer in their own heart”

Insight

Very good point about the telescope. Doesn't matter which man of God we look at, they ALL have faults if we zoom up enough. Even Moses, the meekest man on earth, had faults!

About Lot and Abraham, I think they had different personalities. Lot was NOT a born leader. Abraham was. This is evidenced when their herdmen were fighting. Who took initiative? Abraham. Not only was he senior, but he was much more outgoing and independent.

 

[Groundzero]

I like your post Insight,

I guess I try to look for examples of love in the lives of people. Granted, the picture we see of Lot is very narrow - the guy could have been full of love - I just don't see it. The fact is, he was pretty good at looking out for his own needs, throughout the biblical account of his life. Perfect love not only casts out all fear, it leaves no room for sin; no sin equals righteousness - Paul reminds us that no man is righteous. Based on the Biblical account of Lot, he was not righteous before God, perhaps he was righteous in comparison to his generation

I think that if we look over it, we can be righteous. A relative righteous. By this, we are referring to the fact that God has set a mark for us to achieve, and we reach it. No one will ever be righteous in the full sense of the word accept God, but we can be righteous by reaching the mark that God has set.


Gen_7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.


Mat_25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?


1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


I think that we can be righteous, because if we couldn't, we wouldn't be able to enter into heaven! As I have previously stated, the only way we can be righteous is do reach the mark of purity that God demands of us. In this dispensation of grace, we can find righteousness through the sacrifice Jesus made. Back in Lot's day, it was through works.


Strange that Aspen should say that 'according to the Biblical account of Lot, he was not righteous before God, . . .' since I don't read of that. I do find that his days are paralleled with Noah's days. Perhaps if we looked closer, we would see many more similarities between Noah and Lot. Are we going to say Noah isn't righteous as well?

Noah and Lot

1. Both stood alone with their family
2. Both reprimanded the evil that they were faced with
3. Both had supernatural judgement of God on their generation
4. Both were delivered
5. Both gave the unsaved a chance to escape the coming judgement. Noah was in the ark for seven days before the flood came; Lot would have spent well over three hours travelling to Zoar. More than enough time for the people of Sodom to flee into the mountains which were closer and were a popular hideout for times of trouble
6. Both have the last instance of their life recorded in Scripture end in a 'dubious' incident.

 

[aspen]

I think that if we look over it, we can be righteous. A relative righteous. By this, we are referring to the fact that God has set a mark for us to achieve, and we reach it. No one will ever be righteous in the full sense of the word accept God, but we can be righteous by reaching the mark that God has set.

Gen_7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Mat_25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

I think that we can be righteous, because if we couldn't, we wouldn't be able to enter into heaven! As I have previously stated, the only way we can be righteous is do reach the mark of purity that God demands of us. In this dispensation of grace, we can find righteousness through the sacrifice Jesus made. Back in Lot's day, it was through works.

Strange that Aspen should say that 'according to the Biblical account of Lot, he was not righteous before God, . . .' since I don't read of that. I do find that his days are paralleled with Noah's days. Perhaps if we looked closer, we would see many more similarities between Noah and Lot. Are we going to say Noah isn't righteous as well?

Noah and Lot

1. Both stood alone with their family
2. Both reprimanded the evil that they were faced with
3. Both had supernatural judgement of God on their generation
4. Both were delivered
5. Both gave the unsaved a chance to escape the coming judgement. Noah was in the ark for seven days before the flood came; Lot would have spent well over three hours travelling to Zoar. More than enough time for the people of Sodom to flee into the mountains which were closer and were a popular hideout for times of trouble
6. Both have the last instance of their life recorded in Scripture end in a 'dubious' incident.

Actually, I believe I was the first person to compare Lot to Noah on this thread. In fact, I have no problem with the idea that Lot, like Noah were righteous compared to their respected generation. The problem is - if you read the whole thread - Ducky was not satisfied with this limited view of Lot's righteousness - he has proven himself to be a concrete-thinking fellow.

 

[Insight]

The NT speaks of Lot in three ways:

1. Lot Leaving Sodom the same day it was destroyed Luke 17:9

2. Lot's wife Luke 17:32

3. Lot's deliverance from Sodom in that he walked away from the filthy conversation of the wicked sodomites 2 Peter 2:7

What say we were not provided with the above NT references of Lot? We removed them totally from the Holy Writ altogether, only drawing on the Old Testament record for his character and position before God.

Firstly, would we draw to the same conclusion as Jesus & Paul? Could you find in Lots life a measure of worth, faith, love and could we see the fear of God in him?

I believe given the time I could demonstrate to you all the above, and more in Lots life...but what would this prove here? And how would it change us? A person is known by their actions, and if this is true, Jesus and Paul both agreed with Lot's decision to leave Sodom as being right-eous.

Do you also agree?

If your answer is yes, then you understand the righteousness imputed by the Father upon his faithful servant.

If you say no, you would be likened to his wife and your judgements preserved in salt, awaiting the righteous Judge and his Word.

We must be careful of Rom 1:29,30,31,32..and acknowledge Lot was not amongst this group...he actually came out from among them and was seperate...not as seperate as we may like, but nonetheless seperate.

I am mindful of speaking of a man who I may soon live with for eternity, and while this reality escapes some, for me the realisation of Lot one day sitting next to me reading these posts is rather overwhelming.

Imagine if I were speaking about the lives of Aspen, Groundzero or Jigglyfly etc?

How would you want me to respect your life in this forum? its failings and acts of faith? If our lives were written within the Holy Word knowing they were given for our learning? Rom 15:4

What comfort and hope would you want me to gain from your life, if I were studying you and your behavoiurs?

Insight

 

[Groundzero]

The NT speaks of Lot in three ways:

1. Lot Leaving Sodom the same day it was destroyed Luke 17:9

2. Lot's wife Luke 17:32

3. Lot's deliverance from Sodom in that he walked away from the filthy conversation of the wicked sodomites 2 Peter 2:7

What say we were not provided with the above NT references of Lot? We removed them totally from the Holy Writ altogether, only drawing on the Old Testament record for his character and position before God.

Firstly, would we draw to the same conclusion as Jesus & Paul? Could you find in Lots life a measure of worth, faith, love and could we see the fear of God in him?

I believe given the time I could demonstrate to you all the above, and more in Lots life...but what would this prove here? And how would it change us? A person is known by their actions, and if this is true, Jesus and Paul both agreed with Lot's decision to leave Sodom as being right-eous.

Do you also agree?

If your answer is yes, then you understand the righteousness imputed by the Father upon his faithful servant.

If you say no, you would be likened to his wife and your judgements preserved in salt, awaiting the righteous Judge and his Word.

We must be careful of Rom 1:29,30,31,32..and acknowledge Lot was not amongst this group...he actually came out from among them and was seperate...not as seperate as we may like, but nonetheless seperate.

I am mindful of speaking of a man who I may soon live with for eternity, and while this reality escapes some, for me the realisation of Lot one day sitting next to me reading these posts is rather overwhelming.

Imagine if I were speaking about the lives of Aspen, Groundzero or Jigglyfly etc?

How would you want me to respect your life in this forum? its failings and acts of faith? If our lives were written within the Holy Word knowing they were given for our learning? Rom 15:4

What comfort and hope would you want me to gain from your life, if I were studying you and your behavoiurs?

Insight

Firstly, doesn't it strike you as interesting that Jesus said the same day that Lot left Sodom? Jesus never called Lot righteous for leaving Sodom. In fact, from what I read, it seems that Lot was the only person who was standing in the way of God's judgement falling on the cities!

Paul never mentions Lot, Peter does. He doesn't say anything about Lot leaving, other than the fact God delivered him from those cities right before judgement fell as a proof that God can not only protect the righteous, but judge the wicked!


2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Here alone do we find any mention of Lot being just/righteous. Nowhere do we find him condemned or reprimanded.


Here are some verses that can be readily associated with Lot:

Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

Some of you are probably thinking, what in the world? Let me explain. Jesus said that the same day Lot left Sodom, judgement fell. Imagine how much sooner it could have come if he wasn't there? The very fact he was there gave them a few hours to flee to the mountains to save themselves. As we all know, Lot requested God to go to Zoar instead of the mountains. Have a look at geography, and think about it. Was Lot really scared? The mountains were closer and were a popular hideout in times of trouble. They were also much higher. Zoar not only was close to the same state as Sodom, but it was in the plain, much further away from the city than the mountains were! Could have been that Lot was interceding for Zoar? Notice in brackets what he say, "it is but a little one." This is what makes Lot such an incredible man to me. Though just an ordinary man, he did some amazing things. For years he underwent torture in his soul from the sin surrounding him, and when judgement was coming, he didn't just leave them, though they were so nasty to him, he tried his hardest to somehow save at least some of them. He stood in the gap until it became too big for just him to fill.


Gen 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
Gen 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.


More coming on this subject

 

[jiggyfly]

The NT speaks of Lot in three ways:

1. Lot Leaving Sodom the same day it was destroyed Luke 17:9

2. Lot's wife Luke 17:32

3. Lot's deliverance from Sodom in that he walked away from the filthy conversation of the wicked sodomites 2 Peter 2:7

What say we were not provided with the above NT references of Lot? We removed them totally from the Holy Writ altogether, only drawing on the Old Testament record for his character and position before God.

Firstly, would we draw to the same conclusion as Jesus & Paul? Could you find in Lots life a measure of worth, faith, love and could we see the fear of God in him?

I believe given the time I could demonstrate to you all the above, and more in Lots life...but what would this prove here? And how would it change us? A person is known by their actions, and if this is true, Jesus and Paul both agreed with Lot's decision to leave Sodom as being right-eous.

Do you also agree?

If your answer is yes, then you understand the righteousness imputed by the Father upon his faithful servant.

If you say no, you would be likened to his wife and your judgements preserved in salt, awaiting the righteous Judge and his Word.

We must be careful of Rom 1:29,30,31,32..and acknowledge Lot was not amongst this group...he actually came out from among them and was seperate...not as seperate as we may like, but nonetheless seperate.

I am mindful of speaking of a man who I may soon live with for eternity, and while this reality escapes some, for me the realisation of Lot one day sitting next to me reading these posts is rather overwhelming.

Imagine if I were speaking about the lives of Aspen, Groundzero or Jigglyfly etc?

How would you want me to respect your life in this forum? its failings and acts of faith? If our lives were written within the Holy Word knowing they were given for our learning? Rom 15:4

What comfort and hope would you want me to gain from your life, if I were studying you and your behavoiurs?

Insight

What I would want you to gain from my example is that I am a failure when it comes to walking like Christ and I have given that up and instead I simply walk with Christ.

My righteousness is like that old soured dish cloth, it stinks and makes everything it touches stink. But because of Christ's death on the cross I am found faultless by the Judge.

 

[Insight]

Thank you I meant to say Peter.

 

[Groundzero]

Thank you I meant to say Peter.

No probs.

 

[aspen]

Well, I am looking at this a bit differently this afternoon - I could go along with the idea that Lot is righteous, if time, itself, was taken out of the equation. If the Bible is describing Lot as righteous, as a redeemed saint before God, rather than based on the character he appears to have, as recorded in the Bible - I would agree. Time really does not exist anyway - so we are being born, living, dying, and before God or in Hell, all at the same moment, from God's perspective.

So, if you were to call me righteous, not based on my standing today - in the context of time, but as I am standing before God in a redeemed state - you may be saying the same thing about me as the Bible is saying about Lot.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Groundzero]

I think that if we look over it, we can be righteous. A relative righteous. By this, we are referring to the fact that God has set a mark for us to achieve, and we reach it. No one will ever be righteous in the full sense of the word accept God, but we can be righteous by reaching the mark that God has set.


Gen_7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.


Mat_25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?


1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,


I think that we can be righteous, because if we couldn't, we wouldn't be able to enter into heaven! As I have previously stated, the only way we can be righteous is do reach the mark of purity that God demands of us. In this dispensation of grace, we can find righteousness through the sacrifice Jesus made. Back in Lot's day, it was through works.


Strange that Aspen should say that 'according to the Biblical account of Lot, he was not righteous before God, . . .' since I don't read of that. I do find that his days are paralleled with Noah's days. Perhaps if we looked closer, we would see many more similarities between Noah and Lot. Are we going to say Noah isn't righteous as well?

Noah and Lot

1. Both stood alone with their family
2. Both reprimanded the evil that they were faced with
3. Both had supernatural judgement of God on their generation
4. Both were delivered
5. Both gave the unsaved a chance to escape the coming judgement. Noah was in the ark for seven days before the flood came; Lot would have spent well over three hours travelling to Zoar. More than enough time for the people of Sodom to flee into the mountains which were closer and were a popular hideout for times of trouble
6. Both have the last instance of their life recorded in Scripture end in a 'dubious' incident.

Relative righteousness is probably not the correct term. Let me explain it this way:

Righteous in Lot's day was whether you adhered to what God had commanded, whether you obeyed your conscience.

Righteous in our day is whether we put Jesus' righteousness on and follow what he commands us to.

None of us are righteous in ourselves.

The righteousness of Lot's day and today was the same. God hasn't changed his standards.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

That's a lie. Lot did not turn his daughters over to be raped. It didn't happen if you'd simply read the Scripture.

Nor was Lot responsible for what his two daughters did in getting him drunk to preserve his seed.

By your own words you convict yourself for it shows you have no intention of allowing God's Word to speak, but to serve your own political agenda against The Bible instead.

Well then what happened my Bible tells me that he did try to turn his daughters over and that they did get him drunk and lay with him.

 

[Groundzero]

Well then what happened my Bible tells me that he did try to turn his daughters over and that they did get him drunk and lay with him.

It doesn't say that he tried. He volunteered them. We cannot really know whether he really meant it. As I said, it was a custom of the land, second, we don't know if he actually would have done it, third, at best, all he did was say something wrong in the heat of the moment.

Lot was responsible for getting drunk, but he had no idea about what happened while he was drunk.

Here's something to think about: Could it be that the Ammonites and Moabites at some stage actually know the ONE true God? Could it be that Lot passed on some of his wisdom to his children?


Deu_2:9 And the LORD said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession; because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot for a possession.

Deu_2:19 And when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, distress them not, nor meddle with them: for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon any possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession.

 

[Insight]

Let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes

If this was accepted literally speaking this vile suggestion would reveal how completely the Sodomite environment had influenced Lot.

Thankfully dear readers it had not!!!

I don’t believe this suggestion was meant to be taken seriously.

I believe the context was a form of reproach, to bring home to the Sodomites the enormity of their conduct! The men evidently viewed it in that light, for they took issue with Lot for acting as judge against them (See Gen 19:9). In support of a literal interpretation of his words, it is sometimes alleged, in defence of Lot, that he was bound by the custom of the time to defend his guests at the risk of his own life; but even so, that would not justify him purchasing their safety at the sacrifice of his daughters.

Insight

 

[tomwebster]

Let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes
... that would not justify him purchasing their safety at the sacrifice of his daughters.

Lot knew those "men" did not want girls, they wanted boys!

 

[Insight]

Groundzero, Luke 17:32

In the case of Lot’s wife being much weaker in mind than Lot, she was clearly tempted to retain her comfortable life style and her many party friends. However, Lot was willing to leave this behind although as Aspen stated he was a worldly-minded believer he repented of this life and fled the doomed city. This was clearly assisted by the righteous plea of Abraham!!!

There is a fine moral line between Lot and his wife...she dragged her feet and lagged "behind him looking back on what she had lost. I can see her grieving over the loss of material comforts and high social position among her ungodly neighbours.

The Master uses this lesson on Luke 17 is to demonstrate to us the two camps 1. Abraham & Lot 2. Lot’s wife and the Sodomites

She listened to her carnal desire to preserve all she had known and in doing so lost her opportunity of real “life”. So while Jesus uses his wife as a negative example, he indirectly teaches the positive example of Lot.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Mat 16:26.

Would you agree?

 

[Groundzero]

Groundzero, Luke 17:32

In the case of Lot’s wife being much weaker in mind than Lot, she was clearly tempted to retain her comfortable life style and her many party friends. However, Lot was willing to leave this behind although as Aspen stated he was a worldly-minded believer he repented of this life and fled the doomed city. This was clearly assisted by the righteous plea of Abraham!!!

There is a fine moral line between Lot and his wife...she dragged her feet and lagged "behind him looking back on what she had lost. I can see her grieving over the loss of material comforts and high social position among her ungodly neighbours.

The Master uses this lesson on Luke 17 is to demonstrate to us the two camps 1. Abraham & Lot 2. Lot’s wife and the Sodomites

She listened to her carnal desire to preserve all she had known and in doing so lost her opportunity of real “life”. So while Jesus uses his wife as a negative example, he indirectly teaches the positive example of Lot.

"For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Mat 16:26.

Would you agree?

I like how you are thinking it out. I only agree a little. Firstly, I don't think Lot was worldly-minded. If you are worldly-minded, do you think you would get vexed inside day after day for several years? I don't think so. I think you would settle in. I think we don't give Lot enough credit for what he endured! The word 'vexed' is a very strong word. It means tortured!

About Lot's wife, interesting points. Something to think about, it's probable that they had other children STILL in the city.


Gen 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
Lot could very well have had sons, but we never hear of them. Whether he only had two daughters is also questionable.

Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
Gen 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
It is plain to the reader that Lot ALREADY had sons in law. Therefore he must have had OTHER daughters, since the two he had with him had not known any man.

Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Here's some food for thought: There was a gap of over six hours since the angels came to the city. WHAT was Lot doing in that time? I don't think he was gathering possessions as many would like to think. He was going from door to door, urging people to flee! He was trying to convince his family that all was NOT ok, that judgement was coming! He was doing his best to save those he could. The anguish of his soul can be seen when he pleads with God to send him to Zoar. Lot realised that the judgement would not fall on Zoar (which had been slotted for destruction) if he was there. Imagine the faith! Imagine how passionate he was about saving people!

A very good point you made about Lot's wife's negative example highlighting Lot's positive example. My pastor (who did a study about Lot, which is what prompted me to look into it) said, "Don't just remember Lot's wife, remember Lot."

Lot was a shining light in a darkness that our world is spiralling towards at a frightening speed. Our world needs more men like Lot. It needs more women like Lot. Normal people whose souls burn with a passion to save people from the coming judgement. People who will stand in the gap and sacrifice their own comfort for others, regardless of results.

 

[Insight]

Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Here's some food for thought: There was a gap of over six hours since the angels came to the city. WHAT was Lot doing in that time? I don't think he was gathering possessions as many would like to think. He was going from door to door, urging people to flee! He was trying to convince his family that all was NOT ok, that judgement was coming! He was doing his best to save those he could.

Sound thoughts in your post thank you.

"And when the morning arose" Gen 19:15

The word שחר shachar signifies the dawn which is so typical of the future judgement coming, but this time it will not be executed by angels, but the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth from the political heavens as in Mal 4:1,2.

"Then the angels hastened Lot"

I believe Lot was in a state of utter terror, which brought him extremely low, if not depressed. I also can see him running through the dark streets of this doomed city seeking to save his family and others, so conscious of the lost opportunities of the past, and now the dread realisation came to him that most of his family were lost.

I endeavour to place myself in his shoes as I realise how wasteful my life appears. When we considered he undoubtedly had a large family and trusted servants, all lost.

"Saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here"

If you look at the AV margin the literal Hebrew is stated are found (מצא matsa'). This implies that the others were lost.

How useless as a Father would you feel in this moment?

"Lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city"

The urgency to separate himself from the doomed city, if he really wanted salvation was pressed hard against him by the angels. The same will apply at the coming of the Lord before the destruction of Babylon the Great in Rev. 18:4 but on a much larger scale.

One cannot comprehend the world wide destruction that will cover this planet upon Christs return. Like the inhabitants of Sodom, so too will the world be in derision at his coming.

Sobering thoughts.