I baptize thee in the name of Jesus?
Or
I baptize thee in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit!
"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.
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I baptize thee in the name of Jesus?
Or
I baptize thee in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit!
we were here first so the 16th century gospel is another gospel
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
“While I was lying in darkness . . . I thought it indeed difficult and hard to believe . . . that divine mercy was promised for my salvation, so that anyone might be born again and quickened unto a new life by the laver of the saving water, he might put off what he had been before, and, although the structure of the body remained, he might change himself in soul and mind. . . . But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of rebirth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards, through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man” (To Donatus 3–4 [A.D. 246]).
APHRAAHAT THE PERSIAN SAGE
“From baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters, and those who are baptized are clothed in him. The Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of rebirth, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . n the second birth, that through baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit” (Treatises 6:14:4 [A.D. 340]).
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10:38]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness” (Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12 [A.D. 350]).
BASIL THE GREAT
“For prisoners, baptism is ransom, forgiveness of debts, the death of sin, regeneration of the soul, a resplendent garment, an unbreakable seal, a chariot to heaven, a royal protector, a gift of adoption” (Sermons on Moral and Practical Subjects 13:5 [A.D. 379]).
COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE I
“We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins” (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]).
AMBROSE OF MILAN
“The Lord was baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those waters, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of baptism. Whoever comes, therefore, to the washing of Christ lays aside his sins” (Commentary on Luke 2:83 [A.D. 389]).
AUGUSTINE
“It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture too” (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:24:34 [A.D. 412]).
“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).
“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).
“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).
“While I was lying in darkness . . . I thought it indeed difficult and hard to believe . . . that divine mercy was promised for my salvation, so that anyone might be born again and quickened unto a new life by the laver of the saving water, he might put off what he had been before, and, although the structure of the body remained, he might change himself in soul and mind. . . . But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of rebirth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards, through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man” (To Donatus 3–4 [A.D. 246]).
APHRAAHAT THE PERSIAN SAGE
“From baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters, and those who are baptized are clothed in him. The Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of rebirth, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . n the second birth, that through baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit” (Treatises 6:14:4 [A.D. 340]).
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10:38]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness” (Catechetical Lectures 3:10, 12 [A.D. 350]).
BASIL THE GREAT
“For prisoners, baptism is ransom, forgiveness of debts, the death of sin, regeneration of the soul, a resplendent garment, an unbreakable seal, a chariot to heaven, a royal protector, a gift of adoption” (Sermons on Moral and Practical Subjects 13:5 [A.D. 379]).
COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE I
“We believe . . . in one baptism for the remission of sins” (Nicene Creed [A.D. 381]).
AMBROSE OF MILAN
“The Lord was baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those waters, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of baptism. Whoever comes, therefore, to the washing of Christ lays aside his sins” (Commentary on Luke 2:83 [A.D. 389]).
AUGUSTINE
“It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture too” (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:24:34 [A.D. 412]).
“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).
“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).
“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).
Johann
Well-Known Member
...so rightly cutting straight the scriptures and explain to him the whole salvation plan
apostolic tradition with the authority of Christ
polycarp is a disciple of John same as Timothy is of Paul having apostolic succession and authority
Matt 28:19 and Jn 16:13 applies to the apostles till Christ returns
Okay:
Christ being the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last...is the apex--literally the beginning and the end of the whole salvation plan of God. He stands in the middle. It is He who is mentioned in the book of Revelation who has "his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land." Which is to say that He has walked the earth among us, born of the flesh, made of the dust...but also with the Father, in spirit, in the heavenly realm on high. By Him the first man Adam dies in the flesh, and the second Adam is made alive in the spirit of God. Both are in His hands.
Just as the apostle Paul explained, that those who are saved "were" (past tense) crucified and also raised up with Jesus--our times are complete in Him. And where it is true of our personal experiences that "each comes in his own order", the greater truth in God, is that each was begun and is finished in Christ--again, past tense. Our times being given to us by God on this would be timeline do not change that--they explain it. These are the times of God's revelation--not in a way that we could not bear (as He told His disciples), but in a way that we can bear it. Time is mercy. But the scriptures are clear--the timing and tense of when all has and will happen, happen in Christ--in His time, not actually in ours.
So then, it was right that Israel and all the nations looking on at that light upon a hill should look forward to His coming and believe, and that we who having come after should look backward...just as it is written of the "son of the right hand" (the sons of the sea, meaning of the spirit)--"Look behind you!" Hosea 5:8
But what does all of this mean? It means that those born of the first Adam and of the flesh, die in Christ...and that those born of the spirit of God live in Christ. Which was before Christ death to all born of the flesh, and after Christ life. This is what is referred to in the scriptures as "the dead in Christ" and "the living in Christ." All of whom are characterized as "Israel" who died before salvation in Christ had come--the first "fold" of His sheep...and as the "gentiles"--that "other fold" that Christ "must also bring", to whom salvation by the spirit of God came to first, even though they came last, for which Jesus, explained: "But many who are first will be last, and the last first." Matthew 19:30
This is that dividing line of "rightly dividing the word of truth" of which Paul spoke. This is that dividing line between life and death, just as Moses set before Israel prior to them crossing into that foreshadowing of entering into the heavenly promised land of God. Which Jesus also set before His church, saying, “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death"...which He did with Peter--who denied Him three times...which we should examine, for it concerns our times--perhaps another time. Matthew 16:17
All of which speaks of our need of "rightly dividing the word of truth", between the first fold and death, and the second, which is life. By saying this, Paul has told us that the gospels include both narratives, one concerning the first and the other concerning the last. Thus, if we do not "rightly divide the word of truth", we are mixing death with life--which do come together in Christ for salvation, but are separated for us to "rightly" know what is true for our distinctly different times, before and after Christ. Which Paul would not have made a point of saying, if it were not right to do so.
Therefore, only by "rightly dividing the word of truth" according to what speaks to those times of Christ taking on death and those of taking on life, are we able to "rightly" and fully understand the means of our salvation. This could easily be done by reading the gospels and highlighting each with two different colored highlighters--but who has done it? Who in the past two thousand years has done what Paul instructed by the Spirit of Truth?
Only in this way is the plan of God for salvation made clear. Only in this way will we prevail to escape what first fell upon Israel? Only in this way are the words unsealed by the One who has "prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals." Revelation 5:5
Such is the whole salvation plan of God.
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No...I was not referring to what you wrote in the post--but to the fact that you wrote your response to what I said within your quote of what I said...as if I said both my comment and your answer. Which I did not.
As for what you just said in this above post-- It's mostly religious nonsense and errors, perpetrated by the church fathers.
Johann
Well-Known Member
What about repentance, Justification (liberating news) sanctification, redemption, forgiveness of hamartia..what about denying self, take up your cross and follow Me...3 Imperatives in one verse...what about the sealing of the Holy Spirit and the co-witnessing together with our spirit that we ARE sons and daughters of Christ Jesus?
What are we saved from?
Your lengthy responses of religious jargon and history, only serve to enter into evidence in writing, the errors perpetrated by the church fathers into the legers against them for the Judgement.
Indeed, there are many details to salvation. But those details have obscured our ability to have a basic understanding. What Israel did with the law, we have done with salvation...and just as Jesus rightly brought it back to what can be summarize in only two laws, I have summarized in only two--which is not because I have said so, but because that is what God has done, but men have obscured.
Thus, if we are to discuss the details you mention--fine, but it should be prefaced with the explanation of how it is not to become the mountain that has come up between us and God--that mountain of our own making, for which we should have learned by Israel's error, was wrong to expand upon in the way in which the church is already guilty.
We are saved from ourselves.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
We are saved from our heinous sins and our alienation from God brother which brings reconciliation to the table as well, we are saved from Hell and eternal damnation...and the majority do not believe there is a Hell with everlasting burnings
Read Rom 6,7 and 8
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