"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[farouk]

As does anyone born from above.

@ScottA The John 3 passage about the new birth ought to be simple for ppl to understand but a lot of ppl seem to be able to make it complicated.

It does take the work of the Holy Spirit truly to have a faith understanding of Scripture.

 

[farouk]

It unfortunate those who have been manipulated by religious sections out there…

sad life

there are people out there who make it difficult to know what the scriptures do say.

they can use scripture to make their own decisions and desires to be like Man.

God is not a man, and the Bible is there to help you increase you faith in having newness of life by the spirit

Hi @MatthewG 2 Peter 1:20-21 says:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

 

[ScottA]

no not birthed again

KJV
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water and the spirit!

You keep quoting the scripture, but do not see your error:

Earlier you repeatedly said that one must "be born again of water and of the Spirit."

You added it--that is not what it says, nor is it required.

 

[MatthewG]

Serve the living and true God by faith.

don’t be manipulated by the religious teachings of men.

learn and grow and become aquatinted with the Bible does say, and what God desires.

 

[ScottA]

twisting!

KJV
Matt 16:17-19
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The revelation was not by flesh but from God!

why does Jesus say “thou art Peter”?
Why change his name?
God changed names to indicate a office of ministry

And you ignore all these scriptures and questions

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Call it what you like, but just as Moses set life and death before Israel and told them to choose life, Christ also set life and death (the Father vs. flesh and blood) before the church...and your fathers chose flesh and blood.

And this you all do, because you have not heard His voice. John 10:16 John 10:27 John 18:37

 

[theefaith]

This is what you have when the Spirit is quenched by flesh and blood...for which there are grave consequences.

You have been warned.

warn yourself

Hierarchical jurisdictional authority or spiritual anarchy

can’t be both!

 

[MatthewG]

People will and won’t care if someone disagrees with them or not. Everyone has to live their faith subjectively between God and themselves.

I’m glad it’s not my responsibility to “save” others. My responsibility is to share Christ and to also try to teach so people can learn and grow in their faith of trusting in God as they live by faith, in the Gospel of Christ.

It’s not so much what you know as how it is you go about your approach to get people to know the truth at least lead by the spirit. Though even so all of make us mistakes and it’s good to hold on to what is good by testing all things by the spirit.

God bless

 

[theefaith]

You keep quoting the scripture, but do not see your error:

Earlier you repeatedly said that one must "be born again of water and of the Spirit."

You added it--that is not what it says, nor is it required.

added what?

John 3:5
King James Version

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Both are required
Water and the spirit

baptism

John prepared the way by baptism


vs 22 they went to the river and baptized

what don’t you get

ask saint Augustine

There are three ways in which sins are forgiven, in baptism, in prayer, and in greater humility of penance, yet God does don’t forgive sins except to the baptized!

Why does eph 4:5 say

one baptism

why not one “faith alone” in “Christ alone” thru “grace alone”?

(Born of God) faith and baptism

Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Born of God by baptism

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)

 

[MatthewG]

Great you proved your point, @theefaith

To you: you believe in the need to be baptized in water. I see no problem with it. I was baptized three times but I still never knew Christ as a kid… when it all happened.

The real change having an experience with the living God and having Jesus send the Holy Spirit in me when I was 26. God changed my life and heart, by seeking him out, and listening to the word of God.

I see nothing wrong with people being baptized but I’m living proof nothing changed until 26, when I decided to make the decision to read the Bible.

 

[theefaith]

Call it what you like, but just as Moses set life and death before Israel and told them to choose life, Christ also set life and death (the Father vs. flesh and blood) before the church...and your fathers chose flesh and blood.

And this you all do, because you have not heard His voice. John 10:16 John 10:27 John 18:37

we are talking about who governs the church and administers the kingdom in place of Christ

 

[ScottA]

warn yourself

Hierarchical jurisdictional authority or spiritual anarchy

can’t be both!

You don't know what you are purposing/saying.

You are apparently supposing that the Holy Spirit in the possession of individuals is not biblical, but in fact is hierarchical and instead of leading unto all truth as appointed by Christ, leads to spiritual anarchy.

Wow--it is worse than I thought! Talk about being spiritually deaf and blind--do you not hear yourself? Are you sure you want to seal that fate here in writing?

 

[MatthewG]

I believe the days of playing material church are over and done because of Jesus and his victory over Satan, sin, death, hell, and separation from God.​

 

[theefaith]

People will and won’t care if someone disagrees with them or not. Everyone has to live their faith subjectively between God and themselves.

I’m glad it’s not my responsibility to “save” others. My responsibility is to share Christ and to also try to teach so people can learn and grow in their faith of trusting in God as they live by faith, in the Gospel of Christ.

It’s not so much what you know as how it is you go about your approach to get people to know the truth at least lead by the spirit. Though even so all of make us mistakes and it’s good to hold on to what is good by testing all things by the spirit.

God bless

what happened to the new covenant church the communion of saints!

me and Jesus floating in the clouds I guess

 

[theefaith]

Great you proved your point, @theefaith

To you: you believe in the need to be baptized in water. I see no problem with it. I was baptized three times but I still never knew Christ as a kid… when it all happened.

The real change having an experience with the living God and having Jesus send the Holy Spirit in me when I was 26. God changed my life and heart, by seeking him out, and listening to the word of God.

I see nothing wrong with people being baptized but I’m living proof nothing changed until 26, when I decided to make the decision to read the Bible.

biblical mandate!

You can only be baptized once!
Eph 4:5

yes you changed you just did not have knowledge
You were supposed to be taught the faith. Lk 1;4

Effects of baptism!

Faith and baptism accomplish justification
With these effects:
born again Jn 3:5
New creation in Christ 2 cor 5:17
Passed from death to life 2 Tim 1:10
Out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light 1 pet 2:9
All sins (original and personal) washed away acts 22:16
Washed in Christ’s blood 1 pet 1:2
Member of Christ and His church
1 cor 12:13
Put on Christ gal 3:27
Died with Christ rom 6:3
Risen with Christ col 2:12
Sealed by God in the ark of salvation 1 pet 3:20-21
Sealed with the Holy Spirit eph 1:13

 

[theefaith]

Four marks or signs of the new covenant

one, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic!

apostolic built on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20

As the creed says verified by scripture acts 2:42

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

 

[ScottA]

Four marks or signs of the new covenant

one, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic!

apostolic built on Peter and the apostles eph 2:20

As the creed says verified by scripture acts 2:42

Nicene Creed!

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made; one in being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven; he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; he suffered and was buried. The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life. He proceeds from the Father and the Son, and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified. He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

Okay, your fate is sealed.

It is finished.

 

[theefaith]

You don't know what you are purposing/saying.

You are apparently supposing that the Holy Spirit in the possession of individuals is not biblical, but in fact is hierarchical and instead of leading unto all truth as appointed by Christ, leads to spiritual anarchy.

Wow--it is worse than I thought! Talk about being spiritually deaf and blind--do you not hear yourself? Are you sure you want to seal that fate here in writing?

only the apostles have the guarantee the HS Jn 16:13 then they must teach us Matt 28:19

 

[theefaith]

Okay, your fate is sealed.

It is finished.

to reject the creeds is to reject the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 is to reject the apostolic tradition by the the authority of Christ is to reject christ

 

[ScottA]

only the apostles have the guarantee the HS Jn 16:13 then they must teach us Matt 28:19

That is not biblical.

Let me help you, here is just one of many:

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38​

 

[ScottA]

to reject the creeds is to reject the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 is to reject the apostolic tradition by the the authority of Christ is to reject christ

No, but to continue promoting your non-biblical other gospel, rejection is exactly what you stand to receive from Jesus. Matthew 7:21-23