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"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by ScottA, Dec 30, 2021.

  1. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    By definition salvation (being the gift of eternal life), is forever.

    Still, there are many who are confused by the ongoing sin of people who claim to be saved. This is a great misunderstanding-- but it does not mean that salvation can be lost. And yes, there are many scriptures that can be cherry picked and presented to argue the point...but that does not take anyone who is actually saved, having been born [again] of the spirit of God, out of His hand, or that they can loose their salvation, because: It is no longer you who live, but God who lives-- salvation means you gave you life to God...and God is forever.

    Yes, there are many ways you can ho hum your way around thinking about actually giving your life to God, but if and when you totally do surrender your life to God and give it to Him, it is finished: You are forever "in God" and He in you--and He is forever.

    "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever."​

    So...now the matter of ongoing sin:

    Just as Peter, having been "washed clean" by Christ, was embodied by Satan, causing Jesus to say "Get behind me Satan" to Peter...after we are born again of the spirit of God we can sin in the flesh without loosing our salvation-- Why? Because "we are alive and remain" in the world. This is the stumbling block that causes people to believe they can lose their salvation. But, again, this is a misunderstanding of what actually occurs. At no other time in history, not even those times when most of the scriptures were written, have people died and lived on in the flesh. These are those times...and the terms are different. And yes, it is written of in the scriptures-- If you don't know of them, keep searching, nocking, and asking.

    Nonetheless, if you are saved, having been born again of the spirit of God, it is no longer you who lives, but God who lives...and He is forever. While you remain in the world...your old flesh is still subject to death and decay..and sin. But that body of flesh is passing away, just as all the world is passing away...and this is why we are counselled to remain faithful to the end--because it is as if we have been left in the grave, in death...without which we could not survive without faith and the knowledge that it is no longer we who live, but God who lives in us.

    And we are here to serve--that is why we are left in the world...not to act out of our fleshly old bodies, but rather, to walk in the newness of life-- that life we have been given in the Spirit. Walk in the spirit.

    So, yes, it is a daily labor to keep the old flesh under subordination of the spirit of God. But it is in Him that we have the strength to do so.

    Until the End.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
  2. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    The New Testament teaches how to be saved and how to stay saved.

    It is certainly possible for a born again believer to be lost. The New Testament warns the believers about the consequences of willingly returning to sin after receiving the gospel.

    You’re position does not incline men to the fear of God. The fear of God is essential in keeping men from sinning.

    “Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.” (Proverbs 3:7)

    “by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6)
     
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  3. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    What you have described is not salvation. Just hearing the gospel, even superficially believing it, is not salvation. That is a "maybe."

    So, no, the New Testament does not warn about loosing ones salvation... But rather, yes, if you hear the gospel and begin to follow, but not loose your life to God-- not give up your life to God-- not surrender-- not completely...it's just some good news you heard and didn't take wholeheartedly. That is not receiving it, nor is it salvation. You can't just hear the gospel and think "that's cool" and start going to church, etc. and think you are saved. That is not how it works. No-- as Paul counsels, we must die with Christ in order to be raised up with Him.

    Salvation is laying down your life--giving it to God, and being resurrected by the Spirit of God. It is rebirth, meaning the old you is dead, and the new you is God in you and you in God. It is not you who then lives, but God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
  4. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    The Bible doesn’t warn those who “superficially” believe the gospel; it warns those who believe it, period.

    Once a man believes the gospel and is born again, he must take heed to continue faithful in it until the end to be saved.

    “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:21-23)

    Jesus taught the same doctrine:

    “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)
     
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  5. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    AMEN!

    God Offered TO BE “WITH” OT men...”IF”....”THEN”.
    If...they heard and believed.
    If...they heard, obeyed to confess by their word to believe....
    THEN...God would be “WITH” them.
    If....they stopped hearing, believing, obeying...
    ......THEY RENEGED on their word.
    THEN...God would ALSO stop...being “WITH” them.
    If...they continued (ENDURED) hearing, believing, obeying
    TO...the end of their PHYSICAL BODILY LIFE...
    THEN...God would SAVE THEIR SOUL.
    THEN...their SAVED SOUL would WAIT for redemption (claiming)

    God SENT His WORD out of His mouth, TO Earth, IN the likeness AS a man, IN a body God Prepared...
    TO:
    Fulfill ... Accomplish ... the express limit & extent OF Gods WILL

    EVERY, express limit & extent OF Gods WILL...BY, THROUGH, OF;
    Gods WORD sent forth out from Gods Mouth to EARTH, IS expressly (according TO: Gods Order and Way....
    revealed in the Knowledge of Scripture...)

    * ALL of mankind IS naturally “FLESH Born IN SIN.”
    * ALL of mankind “COMMITS ACTS of SIN.”
    * SIN IS AGAINST GOD.
    * ONLY GOD forgives what IS AGAINST GOD.
    * THE natural Flesh of mankind IS Against God.
    * THE natural Acts of mankind IS Against God.
    * ONLY GOD Forgives SIN.

    SENT forth from Heaven, ENTERED a virgin womb, REVEALED forth from a Virgin womb, on Earth for earthly men TO SEE...
    And earthly men TESTIFY having SEEN and HEARD....
    Gods......SALVATION.....Gods Word in the likeness as a man.
    An ADDITIONAL NEW PROMISE of God given mankind According to the WORD of God.

    Gods WORD....”IF”....”IF”....”IF”....will freely choose....
    ”THEN” shall Gods WORD of Promise.... BE FUL-FILLED THEN

    **** SEE the STARK DIFFERENCE?
    * OT promise...Of IF.
    IF one endures...to continue Belief,
    Shall BE Saved...WHEN their physical body dies.
    * NT promise...OF IF.
    IF one Shall BE CONVERTED...they shall be Saved RIGHT THEN.

    ****ADDITIONAL STARK DIFFERENCE....
    God WITH a man....IS ONLY when a man IS with God.
    A man can one day be with God...believing.
    A man can the next day ..be not believing...not with God.
    And God is then, NOT WITH that man, who is not believing.
    * Wishy, washy, moment to moment, day to day, a man believes, doubts, believes, denies, believes....
    * And we find historical Scriptures...of God with, and without men.
    * And we find historical Scriptures...of God with men and THEN without men “for long periods of time” Because of wishy washy BEHAVIORS of men...God is NOT with men, and LETS such men, SUFFER the consequences for them to EXPERIENCE the NEGATIVE results of “their Choices”....God NOT WITH THEM.

    ^^^ NOTHING has CHANGED ^^^ THAT absolutely continues from the Beginning...TO THIS DAY.

    * Gods OFFERING, of HIS NEW PROMISE...was OFFERED to EVERY SINGLE earthy man.
    * THAT OFFERING...was ALREADY PAID FOR...For every single earthy man.
    * BECAUSE it was already paid for, for every single earthly man...THAT GIFT “IS” every single earthy mans.
    * IT’s A DONE DEAL...the GIFT “IS” THEIRS!!!!

    * NO ONE CAN “MAKE, FORCE” anyone to “TAKE” a gift from another.

    I can buy, pay for a gift...a tangent present...a gift card...for anyone....and offer it to any other....it is theirs, for them.
    I can hold the gift in my hand, extend my hand with the gift, and say here this is FOR YOU.......AND WHAT?
    YOU DO NOT POSSESS that GIFT....UNTIL WHAT?
    YOU reach out and TAKE THE GIFT

    Is the gift still yours? Yes
    But you do not possess the gift UNTIL YOU reach out and TAKE the Gift!

    Do you have to TAKE the GIFT to refuse it? No
    Do you have to TAKE the GIFT to lose it? No.
    You LOSE the Gift THAT IS YOURS, BY NOT TAKING IT!

    ** The FLAWED teaching and preaching by some men, IS...
    They cannot LOSE Gods gift of Salvation, UNTIL AFTER they HAVE received the Gift.

    THAT ^ teaching IS FALSE ON ITS FACE!
    BECAUSE...the WORD of GOD....EXPRESSLY teaches...
    ONCE any man HAS, reached out and TAKEN, Gods Offered GIFT OF “PROMISED CONVERSION”....(according TO Gods WAY of receiving).......GOD HIMSELF KEEPS HIS GIVEN GIFT WITH and IN that individual.........FOREVER!!!)

    GOD fulfilling HIS PROMISE, is BY GODS WORKS.
    A man CANNOT cause GOD TO BREAK HIS FULFILLMENT OF HIS PROMISE.
    A man CANNOT cause GOD TO “UNDO” HIS WORKS.
    ^ that is ludicrous on its face!

    ONCE God has fulfilled His promise IN a man...
    That individual man IS forever, saved, quickened, converted...
    Which IS the VERY basis of the teaching of the Word of God; that GOD IS FAITHFUL and CANNOT LIE.

    OSAS applies expressly to a man that GOD HIMSELF FULFILLED His PROMISE in that one man; of forgiveness, salvation, quickening, Gods Spirit IN that man and Gods PROMISE to BE WITH that man FOREVER.

    THAT man CAN NEVER BE NOT with GOD and GOD CAN NEVER NOT BE with that man.

    AND WHY is expressly BECAUSE...THE KEEPING OF THAT MAN with God and THE KEEPING OF GOD with that MAN....
    IS
    EXPRESSLY....BY Gods POWER.

    For men to teach and preach, MEN have greater POWER than GOD....is an absolute fallacy and ludicrous....
    AND ESPECIALLY ludicrous, when such false teaching and preaching is coming out of the mouth of a “person” who CLAIMS to be “themselves” converted in Christ (falsely preaching THEY can Change Gods fulfilled Promise and THEY can Undo Gods fulfilled Works)!! Utterly false nonsense.


     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
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  6. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Amen Scotty! The gift that God gives to those who accepts His salvation.
     
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  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You are referring to the times when the gospel was first being preached. Therefore it is right that Paul (and Jesus, and the apostles) continue a message of conversion from unbelief to full belief. That generation was on the cusp-- as Jesus said "this generation." But that does not (as you are now doing) take away the great amount of the gospel that says it is finished for those who are actually born again of the spirit of God and are a new creation.

    You are confusing the scriptures that pertain to that generation, with the full message of the gospel. You are not "rightly dividing the word of truth."
     
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  8. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    HOO-RA !!!!!

    The sad thing is, those that believe sin can cause a person to lose their salvation are actually declaring that jesus did not pay for all of a person's sins. for the ones they think they can lose what Jesus purchased for them, they believe Jesus died for just most of their sins.
     
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  9. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is the forgiveness of sins. That is your first mistake. Just make sure you are among the wise virgins ready and waiting, and not one of the foolish ones who also believed in God, but were not prepared at the end. Anyway, believe whatever you like, I wish you well, just keep following Jesus all the days of your life and don't do an Adam.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
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  10. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    Christ’s work of availing salvation to men is finished, not your walk in Christ. While you are alive and breathing you must endure to the end. Paul and Jesus said so and spoke the same truth. I quoted both of their words that confirmed this.

    Listen to the Bible, not the doctrines of men.
     
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  11. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    According to the scripture Christ died for all of our sins up to the day of belief and conversion. He certainly did not die for your future willful sins.

    “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)

    Obey your Lord:

    “go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11)

    Otherwise:

    “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth” (1 John 1:6)
     
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  12. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    So you are taking what Jesus told the hooker as absolute doctrine for every soul?

    Every sin is willful. We do not sin against our own will.

    And will you post SCripture that proves your first sentence?
     
  13. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    This statement is a contradiction of what the scriptures teach. There are sins committed in ignorance and there are sins that are committed presumptuously.

    “And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring …a sin offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the LORD, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.” (Numbers 15:27-28)

    “But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.” (Numbers 15:30-31)
     
  14. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God” (Romans 3:25)

    “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.” (2 Peter 1:9)
     
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  15. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    So yu want to be a Mosaic Law Christian. do you refrain from eating prok also? and shell fish? do yo not wear mixed fabrics or are you just cherry picking the Mosaic Laws you wish?
     
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  16. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    So, if you have a bad day and commit a willful sin- you think all that is left for you is the smoking section of eternity?
     
  17. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    I want to be a scriptural Christian. The Old Testament is scripture for Christians to learn from and be perfect in the faith.

    Paul says so too:

    “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:15-17)
     
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  18. Michiah-Imla

    Michiah-Imla Well-Known Member

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    What sin would a “bad day” lead you to commit?

    And why would a bad day lead to sin?

    We should rejoice in bad days!

    “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.” (1 Peter 4:12-15)
     
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  19. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    It is important not to mix those thing that were preached to Israel for Israel, with those things which were preached regarding the "other fold" which Jesus said He "must also bring." We need to remember that the bulk of what Jesus preached was to Israel, who are "the dead in Christ", of whom Jesus was "the Last."

    Both the narrative preached to Israel, and the narrative regarding that "other fold" are in the same gospel record, for which Paul preach "the word of truth" (the gospel) must be "rightly divided."

    This is the error of those not set free of sin.
     
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  20. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You contradict yourself.

    If I am "in Christ" it is finished. To say it is not, is to say that Christ is not finished-- which you just said He was.

    The matter of "enduring to the end", is not what you make of it-- It is not the end of the flesh living in the world. "We who are alive and remain" in the world, have already come to "the End." The End is Jesus. It is no longer we who live, but He who lives. "For me, to live is Christ."

    Having quoted both Jesus and Paul, surely you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth", but are mixing what they preached to Israel for Israel, with what they also preached regarding the "other fold" whom Jesus said He "must also bring." Both narratives are in the gospels, but indeed, they must be "rightly divided", or those captives whom Christ came to set free-- are not free. That whole line of thinking makes Jesus out to be a liar.

    But, that whole line of thinking is only confusion, for we are free indeed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
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