The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[GEN2REV]

Some Amillennialists claim that the beast of Revelation 13 existed in John's time, yet John was told that this beast did not exist in his time. That also eliminates the possibility that the beast could be Rome. The fact that Revelation 13's beast is destroyed at the second coming (Revelation 19) further disproves Amillennial's interpretation of who/what the beast is and when it exists.

None of this disproves the beast being Rome, nor that it is Rome. You are claiming Revelation is literal and linear against what Revelation claims about itself.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Ironically, this is PROOF POSITIVE that Revelation is not linear at all.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour. Yet John was told that this beast did not exist in his time, that it would come to be again in the future.

And that is accurate.

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus said there was two, he did above and in Revelation 20 and there are other passages that speak of two as well. Only Revelation 20 tells us how much time is inbetween the two resurrections.

Two resurrections:

1. Those that have done good. Revelation 20:4
2. Those that have done evil. Revelation 20:11-13

The Bible NOWHERE speaks of TWO resurrections; and NOWHERE are the words found Second Resurrection.

 

[GEN2REV]

The word reign isn't even in that verse!

This is when Christ rules on this Earth, the 7th trump:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

At least my verse has the word "reign" lol

"He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and (has) transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,"
Colossians 1:13

Not many people argue that this is not the church age. These two verses prove that the church is the current kingdom.
Matthew 16:18-19

Jesus sits right now "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion."
Ephesians 1:20-21

The kingdom of heaven is now.
Matthew 3:2

Only the king has authority over all flesh throughout the entire world. Jesus has that now.
John 17:2

The people alive in Jesus' time saw the kingdom come with power.
Mark 9:1

Plenty more.

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible NOWHERE speaks of TWO resurrections; and NOWHERE are the words found Second Resurrection.

I have already proven there are two.

 

[ewq1938]

The kingdom of heaven is now.

Yes, but only spiritually inside believers. It is not anywhere else on this planet.

 

[ewq1938]

Like all zealous Pre-Mils, you are banking on Revelation being literal and linear. It is your rock-solid evidence of all Pre-Mil doctrine points and claims.

No serious student of Revelation does that.

lol, I don't do that either. I know Revelation is not always linear, but it is in certain places and I also know there are symbolisms along with literals.

 

[Keraz]

There is no support for a 1,000 year period after Christ's return anywhere in Scripture outside of Revelation 20.

This shows your lack of Bible study.
Luke 13:32 ....Listen: today and the next day I will be driving out demons and working cures, on the third day I will achieve My goal.
Luke 13:33 However, I must go on My way today, tomorrow and the next day, because it is necessary for Me to meet My death in Jerusalem.

2 verses, which are plainly NOT parallel:
Verse 33, is a prophecy for the near future and did happen as Jesus said.

Verse 32 is a prophecy for the distant future and the 'days' there are 1000 year periods. As per Psalms 90:4 & 2 Peter 3:8

Jesus ‘goal’, His reward; is to reign as King of the earth for 1000 years.
Psalms 2:8, Psalms 47:8-9, Zechariah 14:16-21, Revelation 20

This truth is confirmed by the fact of the 2 'days' = 2000 years, having nearly passed and the future 1000 years of Jesus reward, to follow after His Return.
Hosea 6:2 is the OT reference.

Jesus HAS continued to work during this Christian era. I have a book full of instances where people have fervently prayed and He has appeared to them and has done many miraculous healings.

 

[Marty fox]

Again, you are banking on the assumption that Revelation is literal and linear.

Castles made of sand.

There is no support for a 1,000 year period after Christ's return anywhere in Scripture outside of Revelation 20. And the fact that Rev. 20:10-15 is a re-telling of 1 Cor. 15:20-27 discounts all possibility that this man-made doctrine has any Biblical legitimacy at all.

Actually revelation 19 also isn’t the second Corinthians but Jesus coming in judgement with His sword just like in the verse below

Rev 2:16
. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

This is a repeated event over the church age

 

[GEN2REV]

I have a book full of instances where people have fervently prayed and He has appeared to them and has done many miraculous healings.

Would that be an extra-biblical book?

I have a book that shows no support for a 1,000 year period after Christ's return. Within it is a book called 1 Corinthians where, in chapter 15, it shows that there will be no Millennium after His return.

Also, that chapter shows that Rev. 20 is simply a re-telling of it.

You should check it out.

 

[GEN2REV]

I have already proven there are two.

No.

You've just twisted Scripture that plainly presents ONE resurrection with two outcomes to say there are two different, separate by 1,000 years, resurrections - which no verse states anywhere in the Bible.

Proof would consist of even ONE verse that claims there are two different resurrections, or show the words Second Resurrection. The words First Resurrection found in Revelation don't prove the complex concept that there are two resurrections separated by 1,000 years; especially when that completely contradicts plain Scripture from multiple other sources within the Bible.

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes, but only spiritually inside believers. It is not anywhere else on this planet.

Yes, but God dwells within those believers. Does He not?

Therefore, God dwells upon the earth as king of His kingdom upon the earth. All over the entire earth. Which kingdom will end at Christ's physical return to the earth in Judgment of all the wicked upon the earth.

So where is, and what need is there for, a 1,000 year period on the same fallen, physical, earth beyond that?

The doctrine has no Biblical legs to stand upon.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And how they became alive is through a resurrection. Christ said it about himself:

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Christ used the same exact word regarding the result of his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Most Amills deny there was a resurrection that caused these people to be alive again but that is wrong. These people experienced the same type of resurrection that Christ did and were alive (ZAO) after having been dead. This proves Premillennialism to be correct in the exegesis of Revelation 20, that it has two different days of resurrection, one before the thousand years and one after it.

You're not paying attention to what I'm saying. The word zao is not a word that is used to describe a resurrection (coming to life) and it is not only used to describe someone who is alive that was formerly dead. If it was, then you'd have a point, but it's not.

The word zao is used to describe people living their lives or to indicate that they are alive. In Rev 1:18 it's used to reference the fact that Jesus is alive even though He was once dead, but, again, that is not the only way the word is used. It can refer to people who are alive and have never died as well. And it's not used in Rev 1:18 to describe His actual resurrection itself, either.

The word to describe a resurrection (coming to life) itself is anazao, not zao. The word anazao is used to describe the coming back to life of the rest of the dead in verse 5. So, Revelation 20:4 is talking about the souls of physically dead people living and reigning with Christ and verse 5 is talking about the rest of the dead being resurrected after the thousand years.

Explain why the word zao is used in Revelation 20:4 instead of anazao if Revelation 20:4 is talking about the bodily resurrection of the dead martyrs John saw.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said there was two, he did above and in Revelation 20 and there are other passages that speak of two as well. Only Revelation 20 tells us how much time is inbetween the two resurrections.

Two resurrections:

1. Those that have done good. Revelation 20:4
2. Those that have done evil. Revelation 20:11-13

You're just ignoring the context of what Jesus said and not using scripture to interpret scripture. He said there is a single time (day, event) coming when ALL of the dead will be resurrected. You are turning the one resurrection event of all of the dead that Jesus talked about into two resurrection events. You should not twist His words to support your interpretation of Revelation 20, you should use His words as an aid to understanding Revelation 20.

 

[GEN2REV]

lol, I don't do that either. I know Revelation is not always linear, but it is in certain places and I also know there are symbolisms along with literals.

Everything in Rev. must be supplemented with Scripture from other books in order to properly align its contents with the whole of the Bible.

So many people, including very well known TV/Radio pastors, use Rev. as the go-to rock-solid proof of certain claims and doctrines. That's not what Revelation is for and it can't be used that way honestly while maintaining Biblical accuracy.

It's used as evidence to convince those who don't know their Bible well.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The word reign isn't even in that verse!

LOL. And the word rapture isn't in 1 Thess 4:14-17, so that means that passage isn't about the rapture? Come on. Please don't waste time with weak argument like this. Look at the passage again:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John called Jesus "the prince of the kings of the earth" and said "to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever", but that somehow means Jesus wasn't reigning yet at that time? That's nonsense. You clearly don't understand what it means for Jesus to reign. And the fact that His people were already made "kings and priests unto God and his Father" shows that they were reigning with Him already back then.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You have to dismiss a lot of scripture in order to deny that Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection and that His people have been reigning with Him since then.

This is when Christ rules on this Earth, the 7th trump:

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

At least my verse has the word "reign" lol

Oh, that was hilarious. lol.

Once again, you have failed to look closely enough at a verse. Notice that it says the kingdoms become the kingdoms of our Lord...and of his Christ. The Lord is the Father. This verse is referring to the time when the kingdom will be delivered to the Father at which point He and the Son will reign together on the new earth (not this earth as we know it). That happens when Christ returns at the end of the age, as indicated in scripture like 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 and Matthew 13:36-43. You falsely have Him delivering the kingdom to the Father 1,000+ years after His return at the end of the age.

Also, when that verse says "and he shall reign for ever and ever" it's talking about the Father because the kingdom will be delivered to the Father at that point.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have already proven there are two.

But, you have not proven that they occur 1000+ years apart. What Jesus said in John 5:28-29 makes it impossible for the resurrection of the righteous and resurrection of the wicked to be 1,000+ years apart. He spoke of one singular event that is coming during which the resurrection of ALL of the dead will occur, including the resurrection of all of the the righteous and all of the wicked.

 

[Marty fox]

Everything in Rev. must be supplemented with Scripture from other books in order to properly align its contents with the whole of the Bible.

So many people, including very well known TV/Radio pastors, use Rev. as the go-to rock-solid proof of certain claims and doctrines. That's not what Revelation is for and it can't be used that way honestly while maintaining Biblical accuracy.

It's used as evidence to convince those who don't know their Bible well.

Yes this below is a rule that I go by

The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

The above method is the best way to interpret scripture especially prophecy

 

[Marty fox]

LOL. And the word rapture isn't in 1 Thess 4:14-17, so that means that passage isn't about the rapture? Come on. Please don't waste time with weak argument like this. Look at the passage again:

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

John called Jesus "the prince of the kings of the earth" and said "to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever", but that somehow means Jesus wasn't reigning yet at that time? That's nonsense. You clearly don't understand what it means for Jesus to reign. And the fact that His people were already made "kings and priests unto God and his Father" shows that they were reigning with Him already back then.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

You have to dismiss a lot of scripture in order to deny that Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection and that His people have been reigning with Him since then.

Oh, that was hilarious. lol.

Once again, you have failed to look closely enough at a verse. Notice that it says the kingdoms become the kingdoms of our Lord...and of his Christ. The Lord is the Father. This verse is referring to the time when the kingdom will be delivered to the Father at which point He and the Son will reign together on the new earth (not this earth as we know it). That happens when Christ returns at the end of the age, as indicated in scripture like 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 and Matthew 13:36-43. You falsely have Him delivering the kingdom to the Father 1,000+ years after His return at the end of the age.

Also, when that verse says "and he shall reign for ever and ever" it's talking about the Father because the kingdom will be delivered to the Father at that point.

Yes most people miss verse 18

The Seventh Trumpet
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

Yes this happens at the end of our world on the great white throne judgement day as shown in the last section of Revelation 20 which is also at the rapture a Paul says happens at the last trumpet which is the 7th trumpet

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes most people miss verse 18

The Seventh Trumpet
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”

Yes this happens at the end of our world on the great white throne judgement day as shown in the last section of Revelation 20 which is also at the rapture a Paul says happens at the last trumpet which is the 7th trumpet

Right. It indicates that the seventh trumpet signals that "the time has come for judging the dead". And Revelation 20:11-15 makes it clear that the time of judging the dead occurs AFTER the thousand years (and Satan's little season). Therefore, Christ will return and the seventh trumpet will sound AFTER the figurative thousand years.

 

[GEN2REV]

Yes this below is a rule that I go by

The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

The above method is the best way to interpret scripture especially prophecy

Yes, I think the witchcraft of Isaiah 29:16 is on display for all to see in modern Christendom's massive teaching, and acceptance, of Pre-Mil doctrine.

Meaning that due to Rev.'s symbolic, signified nature, it should be used to support other, more sound, doctrines founded upon Jesus', and the apostles', plain words in other books of the Bible. Instead, these big name charlatans, and modern mainstream churches, are doing the opposite. They are creating doctrine, literally building it, upon a book that is loaded beginning to end with symbolism and visions; and using that as the proof of the doctrine itself. Circular reasoning.

Yes, there are other prophetic books that deal with sound doctrine, but those doctrines are well supported by other books in the Bible. A 1,000 year period upon the fallen earth, after Christ's return, just is not.