The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20 presents two resurrections separated by a thousand years.

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained?

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[ewq1938]

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained?

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

This is false.
Revelation 20 is the only book to tell us how much time is between the resurrection of the saved VS. the resurrection of the unsaved. It shows that there is a thousand years inbetween the two mass resurrections.

Rev 20 speaks of two groups of the dead that resurrect/live again.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of this first group of the dead because they resurrect first. The rest have to wait for their resurrection:

"the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" (Rev 20:5)

This is the last resurrection of those who are dead. One group resurrected and "the rest" or the remaining ones did not resurrect when the others did.

This proves they partake of the second resurrection also known as the last resurrection because no one is still physically dead after they "live again". This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections separated by a thousand years.

The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The resurrection of life is the first resurrection of Revelation 20 that happens BEFORE the thousand years. The resurrection of damnation is the resurrection that is AFTER the thousand years mentioned by Revelation 20:5.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Obviously this is speaking of the resurrection to life, eternal life. The unsaved dead are not mentioned because they are not part of that resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

This also addresses only those of the resurrection to eternal life, the first resurrection group of Revelation 20.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

That is the day of the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ) which is the last day of this Earth before the new Earth is seen in Revelation 21.

 

[ewq1938]

13. The opening of the pit in Revelation 9 is the same exact event and time when the pit is opened in Revelation 20?

The problem here is that in Revelation 9 and onward satan is powerful and successful against his enemies even to the point of overcoming and killing the saints. In Revelation 20 satan fails completely with no success against the saints. The other issue is that Revelation 9 is the 5th trump/1st woe but Revelation 20 is decidedly after the 6th trump/2nd woe and even after the 7th trump/3rd woe so how can the two openings be parallel events? They can't. The details do not match. Not to mention, Revelation 9 is before the Great Tribulation starts and Revelation 20 is clearly after it has ended based on the beheaded saints being killed during the Great Tribulation. It is said they refused to take the mark or worship the image so that cannot be the same timeframe of Revelation 9.

 

[GEN2REV]

This proves without a doubt that there are two separate days of resurrections separated by a thousand years.

The first group resurrects before the thousand years begins and the second/last group resurrects after the end of the thousand years.

That's a long hour.

John 5:28

 

[GEN2REV]

13. The opening of the pit in Revelation 9 is the same exact event and time when the pit is opened in Revelation 20?

But wait!

Revelation is CHRONOLOGICAL, dang it!

 

[ewq1938]

That's a long hour.

John 5:28

Hour isn't the best translation, time is.

(GW) Don't be surprised at what I've just said. A time is coming when all the dead will hear his voice,

 

[ewq1938]

But wait!

Revelation is CHRONOLOGICAL, dang it!

Some parts are but some are not.

 

[ewq1938]

14. Is satan released from the pit immediately before the 7th trump?

Amillennialism sometimes teaches that satan is released in the 1st woe, Revelation 9:2, and somehow again immediately after the 3rd woe/7th trump return of Christ. This not only ignores the 2nd woe completely but contradicts that the unsaved trample Jerusalem for 42 months within the 2nd woe. It also ignores that the locust have 5 months in the first woe to torment the unsaved. If Amillennialism is correct about Revelation 9:2 being the same releasing of satan in Revelation 20, there is a conflict of time and events.

 

[GEN2REV]

Hour isn't the best translation, time is.

'Best' as in the word that most closely supports the full structure of your preferred doctrines?

Ok.

 

[GEN2REV]

@ewq1938

Looks like 'hour' is the best translation.

[the] hour
ὥρα (hōra)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 5610: Apparently a primary word; an 'hour'.

Usage: (a) a definite space of time, a season, (b) an hour, (c) the particular time for anything.

Hmm.

The time will come for two events to take place A THOUSAND YEARS APART.

Yeah, I'm not buying it.

 

[GEN2REV]

Some parts are but some are not.

And you determine which parts are, and which are not, based on what doctrine you're intending to support at a given time, right?

That's fair.

So, basically, Revelation is the perfect go-to book for any doctrine you need to twist-up some Scriptural support for then.

Ok, ok. That makes sense.

 

[Earburner]

The post was doing fine until this personal opinion that totally upended the point you were trying to make. The Spirit would not make a claim that changes the nature of the Word. Stating a chronological order may or may not be the Spirit's intent. But you phrase it as a command: The book of Revelation should not be interpreted or understood in a chronological manner."

And I gave the reason why it should not be interpreted or understood chronologically:
Isaiah 55:8-9
5. The book of Revelation is from the Mind of God the Father, who thinks and speaks in the past, the present and the future, all at the same.
Our minds do not and cannot think in the way that God thinks. Therefore, for us to understand Him, we must do so by the Mind of Christ, through His Holy Spirit ("by my spirit").
Our faith in Christ should not stand in the wisdom of man's teachings (doctrines of men).

Also there are 4 witnesses: 2 olive trees and 2 lampstands. I am sure the two olive trees were covered in the OT. The 2 lampstands?

You are thinking as a man for your interpretation.
It's not about the olive trees or the lampstands, it's about the "two anointed ones", those who are the two "branches" having "oil", which is meaning "two anointed ones" shall have the Holy Spirit of God permanently within themselves, when NO ONE ELSE could.
In this particular scripture from Zechariah, it's pointing forward to two "anointed ones", who were to come, being born with the Holy Spirit at birth.
Zechariah 4:14 has been fulfilled.

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938

Looks like 'hour' is the best translation.

[the] hour
ὥρα (hōra)
Noun - Nominative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 5610: Apparently a primary word; an 'hour'.

Usage: (a) a definite space of time, a season, (b) an hour, (c) the particular time for anything.

Hmm.

The time will come for two events to take place A THOUSAND YEARS APART.

Yeah, I'm not buying it.

That's up to you but there are two separated by a thousand years in Revelation 20, your most favorite chapter in the bible

 

[Timtofly]

And I gave the reason why it should not be interpreted or understood chronologically:
Isaiah 55:8-9
5. The book of Revelation is from the Mind of God the Father, who thinks and speaks in the past, the present and the future, all at the same.
Our minds do not and cannot think in the way that God thinks. Therefore, for us to understand Him, we must do so by the Mind of Christ, through His Holy Spirit ("by my spirit").
Our faith in Christ should not stand in the wisdom of man's teachings (doctrines of men).

You are thinking as a man for your interpretation.
It's not about the olive trees or the lampstands, it's about the "two anointed ones", those who are the two "branches" having "oil", which is meaning "two anointed ones" shall have the Holy Spirit of God permanently within themselves, when NO ONE ELSE could.
In this particular scripture from Zechariah, it's pointing forward to two "anointed ones", who were to come, being born with the Holy Spirit at birth.
Zechariah 4:14 has been fulfilled.

That is why you claiming it is not chronological, a human attempt at an explanation, will not work. Many claim it is not chronological, then attempt a reasonable explanation. Then we have multiple different human interpretations. See how this cannot work?

Why is your interpretation any better than any one else?

 

[Earburner]

That is why you claiming it is not chronological, a human attempt at an explanation, will not work. Many claim it is not chronological, then attempt a reasonable explanation. Then we have multiple different human interpretations. See how this cannot work?

Why is your interpretation any better than any one else?

Why?
Because the "two anointed ones", being the "two witnesses" for the KoG, were John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Zech.4[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the LORD of the whole earth.
Rev.11[3] And I will give power [oil] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Isa.55[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Luke.12[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matt.25[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Matt.13[30] Let both [the tares and the wheat] grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn [Heavenly Jerusalem]- see Hebrews 12:22-23, Galatians 4:22-31

 

[GEN2REV]

That's up to you but there are two separated by a thousand years in Revelation 20, your most favorite chapter in the bible

I don't have anything against Revelation at all, but it's prime real estate for heretics to misuse and make all manner of false claims about sheerly because it is not easy to understand. That's their M.O. Take something that is vague and make it anything you want/need it to be.

And there are not two resurrections in that chapter, either. Plain and simple. Nor are there in John 5.

 

[Timtofly]

Why?
Because the "two anointed ones", being the "two witnesses" for the KoG, were John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Zech.4[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the LORD of the whole earth.
Rev.11[3] And I will give power [oil] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Isa.55[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Luke.12[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Matt.25[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Matt.13[30] Let both [the tares and the wheat] grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn [Heavenly Jerusalem]- see Hebrews 12:22-23, Galatians 4:22-31

It is your word that declares John the Baptist and Jesus as the 2 witnesses, not God's Word.

 

[ewq1938]

I don't have anything against Revelation at all, but it's prime real estate for heretics to misuse and make all manner of false claims about sheerly because it is not easy to understand. That's their M.O. Take something that is vague and make it anything you want/need it to be.

And there are not two resurrections in that chapter, either. Plain and simple. Nor are there in John 5.

Wrong as usual. Anyone can see the two resurrections. You are just blindly defending your bad doctrine.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Here we have two groups of the dead "living again". One lives again before the thousand years and one must wait until the thousand years are over. If the rest of the dead resurrect a thousand years later then we know for a fact that some of the dead just resurrected. This is basic English comprehension. In verse 4 "live" is the Greek word Zao. It is the same word in this verse:

Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive (zao) for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Christ used the same exact word regarding the result of his own physical resurrection. Did Christ not live again physically and in immortality after being dead?


Mat 9:18 While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live (zao) .

Here is the same word. Anytime someone who is dead is said to "live" (zao) it's a reference to physical resurrection.

Amillennialism changes the "first resurrection" from a reference to the first of two groups of the dead being raised back to life in Revelation 20 to somehow being a reference to Christ's own resurrection found in the gospels. It is clearly not speaking of Christ's resurrection for many contextual reasons. It is speaking of the first of two groups of the dead resurrecting.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (zao) and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Most Amillennialists deny there was a resurrection that caused these people to be alive again but that is wrong. These people experienced the same type of resurrection that Christ did and were alive (ZAO) after having been dead. This proves Premillennialism to be correct in the exegesis of Revelation 20, in that it has two different days of resurrection, one before the thousand years and one after it.

 

[Earburner]

It is your word that declares John the Baptist and Jesus as the 2 witnesses, not God's Word.

Isa.55[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

 

[Timtofly]

Isa.55[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Are you implying God is posting?