James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Titus]

That isn't even remotely true. Verse #29 clearly says it is the "work of God". You are ADDING to the Scriptures.



God gave them to control lawless humanity and to establish guilt in all of humanity. They were never made to establish righteousness.

When you look at the "law", you think you see liberty when in fact, YOU CONTINUALLY BREAK the law. You are a law breaker. Not a law "doer".



By all means. Show me the Scriptures that say such. I can read John 6:28. You don't have a "John 6:28" for your list.

John 6:28-29
Then they said to Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God
Jesus did not correct them did He?
No He told them how to work the works of God,
-29 then Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

Jesus told them to believe.

You teach God does the believing for us.
That is not what Jesus taught.

Now, if I am not the one doing the believing.
Then who is responsible if I never come to faith?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am getting to understand you.
You are of the belief that we are not under law today,

Gentiles were never given the Torah. Those are not my laws at all. Do you claim to be a Jew?

There are no pure blooded Jews left in this world. Jews have continually broken the law requiring the obedience to not marry among Gentiles. So much so, their very lives are a testament to their utter failure to keep the law given them.

Explain Paul's admonition that we are under law,
Galatians 6:2
Bear one another's burdens and so fullfil the law of Christ.

The law of liberty cannot be the Mosaical law.
You know the old law does ot set you free.
Do you think James being the brother of Jesus does not know His brothers gospel?

That is fabricated nonsense. No one knows this "James".... you don't know him. He wrote a few word someone decided to include in their canon. T

Do you really believe that James was not aware that the old covenant God made with the Jews was not perfect?

I don't believe "James" had any authority whatsoever to establish anything. No. He clearly taught that the law he was accustom to, the Torah, was a liberating law. That man could find forgiveness in that law and SERVE the law properly as his penance.

Which is exactly what you believe. You're just fabricated a "new law" that contains much of the same principles of the old.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

The Jews that held to the Torah never accepted and obeyed Jesus as their Messiah friend.

That absolute rubbish. It is central theme in the fight of the Gospel including Gentile nations. The apostles @ Jerusalem didn't reach out to the Gentile world for over a decade after the death of Jesus Christ. Jesus had to repeatedly deal with Peter to get him to obey the command to go into all the world.... and preach to every living creature.

The early church were filled with people like yourself. Those who pretend they don't continually sin.

 

[Titus]

Gentiles were never given the Torah. Those are not my laws at all. Do you claim to be a Jew?

There are no pure blooded Jews left in this world. Jews have continually broken the law requiring the obedience to not marry among Gentiles. So much so, their very lives are a testament to their utter failure to keep the law given them.






That is fabricated nonsense. No one knows this "James".... you don't know him. He wrote a few word someone decided to include in their canon. T



I don't believe "James" had any authority whatsoever to establish anything. No. He clearly taught that the law he was accustom to, the Torah, was a liberating law. That man could find forgiveness in that law and SERVE the law properly as his penance.

Which is exactly what you believe. You're just fabricated a "new law" that contains much of the same principles of the old.

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.



That absolute rubbish. It is central theme in the fight of the Gospel including Gentile nations. The apostles @ Jerusalem didn't reach out to the Gentile world for over a decade after the death of Jesus Christ. Jesus had to repeatedly deal with Peter to get him to obey the command to go into all the world.... and preach to every living creature.

The early church were filled with people like yourself. Those who pretend they don't continually sin.

Would you please explain to me how sin occurs today?
Given your belief that no one is under law.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Would you please explain to me how sin occurs today?
Given your belief that no one is under law.

The law of sin and death has been from the beginning. Do you not know the book of Romans?

 

[praise_yeshua]

John 6:28-29
Then they said to Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God
Jesus did not correct them did He?
No He told them how to work the works of God,
-29 then Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.

Jesus told them to believe.

Yes. He did. He commands men everywhere to repent.

You teach God does the believing for us.
That is not what Jesus taught.

I never said that. I said that faith isn't "work". Your false gospel teaches that faith is meritorious.

Faith is not a work. It is relying upon the work of another. Get it?

 

[Titus]

Yes. He did. He commandments men everywhere to repent.



I never said that. I said that faith isn't "work". Your false gospel teaches that faith is meritorious.

Faith is not a work. It is relying upon the work of another. Get it?

Do not falsely accuse me of merit salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 condemns works of merit.

That is a strawman argument.
It is dishonest for you to make this accusation against me.
Why would I teach meriting salvation when I believe that is impossible?
I never have, never will.

You are not paying attention to what I have taught with faith.
Faith is a WORK OF GOD.
It is not a work of man.
Therefore there is nothing meritorious about faith saving us.

Works do not equate merit.
Works of men are merit.
Works of God, is grace.

Yes. He did. He commandments men everywhere to repent.

Good, now explain how we obey the commandment to repent yet there is no work involved?
Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.

Who does the repenting?
Does God repent for us?
Or do we obey His commandments and repent?

The law of sin and death has been from the beginning. Do you not know the book of Romans?

Are you teaching we are still under the Mosaical law?
btw, no gentile ever was held to obey all of the old law that was for jews.

What law causes Christian's to commit sin today?

Faith is not a work. It is relying upon the work of another. Get it

How is obeying the commandment to believe not a work, 1 John 3:23-24.

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

When do we work righteousness?
How do we work righteousness?
Answer:
When we obey Gods commandments,
Psalm 119:172,
My tongue shall speak of your word, for all your commandments are righteousness.

You understand that when we obey His commandments we are doing works of righteousness?

How is obeying the commandment to believe in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24 not a work of righteousness?

 

[Titus]

had to repeatedly deal with Peter to get him to obey the command to go into all the world.... and preach to every living creature.

Where did Jesus have to force Peter to obey the great commission, Matthew 28 19 ; Mark 16:15-16?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Where did Jesus have to force Peter to obey the great commission, Matthew 28 19 ; Mark 16:15-16?

I shouldn't have to tell you this. You obvious know some Scriptures. The issue is with your reliance upon men to discern the Scriptures.

Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
Act 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Jesus told the disciples to go into all the world and yet the apostles had stayed in around Jerusalem.

Did you know that we have no idea who first evangelized those at Rome? It wasn't the apostles. Paul couldn't do it all himself.

Jesus repeated to Peter what he had heard before when Peter denied our Lord Jesus Christ. Thrice being told the same thing over again. Go into all the world.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do not falsely accuse me of merit salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 condemns works of merit.

You do make faith meritorious by claiming that it is a work. It is not a false accusation. You're proving it every time you respond.

That is a strawman argument.
It is dishonest for you to make this accusation against me.
Why would I teach meriting salvation when I believe that is impossible?
I never have, never will.

What you say betrays your heart. You can claim that you're not saying that salvation is merited but when you claim that faith is a work, you make faith void.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

You are not paying attention to what I have taught with faith.
Faith is a WORK OF GOD.
It is not a work of man.
Therefore there is nothing meritorious about faith saving us.

You have repeatedly said that faith is a work of obedience. You said that. I didn't say that. I would never say that. You are contradicting yourself.

Good, now explain how we obey the commandment to repent yet there is no work involved?
Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.


Who does the repenting?
Does God repent for us?
Or do we obey His commandments and repent?

Here you go AGAIN... contradicting yourself.

It is either works or it is not. It is not BOTH. You can't mix faith and works. Yet, here you are doing it once more.

Repentance is a change of mind. Changing your mind isn't work.

 

[Titus]

I shouldn't have to tell you this. You obvious know some Scriptures. The issue is with your reliance upon men to discern the Scriptures.

At this time, in Peter's life and all Jews for this matter.
How many gentiles did God include into His chosen people?
I'm referring from the time of the first covenant with Abraham till Acts 10 as this time in history, with the Jews and gentiles.

Jesus repeated to Peter what he had heard before when Peter denied our Lord Jesus Christ. Thrice being told the same thing over again. Go into all the world.

Peter and all the apostles except John lost their faith in Jesus before, during and after His crucifixion.

It was until Jesus was ressurected from the dead, that Peter and Jesus' chosen disciples became baptized with the Holy Spirit, Luke 24:49 ; Acts 1 through Acts chapter 2.
The last thing Jesus taught to His chosen apostles before He ascended back to His Father in heaven was His great commission, Matthew 28:19 ; Mark 16:15-16.

Peter after he saw Jesus raised from the dead never lost his faith in Christ.
Once the apostles received the power from the Holy Spirit they no longer were ignorant of what The whole will of God was.

You need to explain why you think Peter was rebelling against God when he was commanded by Jesus in a vision to go to the gentiles.

No contradiction,
What is a contradiction Is to claim there is no obedient works in commandment keeping to be saved while claiming at the same time obedience is required in salvation.

You have repeatedly said that faith is a work of obedience. You said that. I didn't say that. I would never say that. You are contradicting yourself

The Bible teaches faith is an obedient work.
You agree that faith is obedience.
Then you contradict yourself by saying obeying commandments I'd not a work.

If you cannot understand Acts 10:35 = Psalm 119:172, then God is not going to hold you accountable.

The Bible teaches works of righteousness are obeying Gods commandments.
When you obeyed the commandment to believe in Jesus, 1John 3:23-24.
You did a work of righteousness.
Whether you understand or believe that is what obeying commandments is.
Does not change this fact that the Bible defines obeying Gods commandments as works of righteousness.

Faith because it is a command is a work of righteousness.
This is a Biblical fact.

Repentance is a change of mind. Changing your mind isn't work.

Repentance is a direct commandment from God,
Acts 17:30
Truly these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.

Repentance just like belief in Jesus is a commandment of God in Jesus' gospel.
Acts 10:35 ...works of righteousness....

Again works of righteousness are obeying the Lords commandments

Psalm 119:172
My tongue shall speak of Your word,
For all Your commandments are righteousness.

Do you understand that when you do the commandments of the Lord, you are working righteousness?

Do you understand that only those who are accepted by Jesus are those who work righteousness?

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Every time you claim you do no works you are admitting that God does not accept you.

Every time you say you obey God by obeying the commandment to believe, 1John 3:23-24,
Then say no works in salvation.
You are not making sense and contradicting yourself.

 

[Titus]

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness and the love of our God Savior toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Titus is not teaching no obeying of Gods commandments are needed in salvation ie Psalm 119:172 works of righteousness.

Listen to verse 4,
When did the kindness and love of God appear for mankind?
Did it appear while we were wicked sinners that never did a work of righteousness?
Yes!
Jesus chose to save us before we every did any works of righteousness!

That is what Titus is teaching.
He is not teaching we do no works of righteousness to be saved!

If he did teach this, then guess what?
There could be no faith involved in salvation.

For faith is a commandment 1John 3:23-24.
That we must obey.
Again obedience to Gods commandments are works of righteousness,
Acts 10:35.

 

[praise_yeshua]

At this time, in Peter's life and all Jews for this matter.
How many gentiles did God include into His chosen people?
I'm referring from the time of the first covenant with Abraham till Acts 10 as this time in history, with the Jews and gentiles.

There are no excuses for the actions of the church of Jerusalem. Jews didn't want Gentiles in their assemblies. Peter resisted the Lord Jesus Christ as he had often done. I'm not casting stones at Peter. I'm as bad or worse. YOU ARE TOO.

However, WE MUST see the things for what they are. You can't have absolute truth and wear "rose colored glasses".

Peter after he saw Jesus raised from the dead never lost his faith in Christ.
Once the apostles received the power from the Holy Spirit they no longer were ignorant of what The whole will of God was./QUOTE]

Nonsense. You do greatly error not knowing the Scripture.......

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

As you do with most things, you're only living in your little view of what you know.

Peter was very hypocritical. Which is common among Christians. Include you. Including myself. You're just pretending to be earning the Grace of God.

You need to explain why you think Peter was rebelling against God when he was commanded by Jesus in a vision to go to the gentiles.

Jesus told Peter to feed His Sheep in ALL THE WORLD. Peter resisted. Peter FINALLY gave in. That is what the Scriptures declare.

Jesus broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile at Calvary and it took over a decade for the church of Jerusalem to even start including Gentiles.

No contradiction,
What is a contradiction Is to claim there is no obedient works in commandment keeping to be saved while claiming at the same time obedience is required in salvation.

Faith isn't a work. You're "back dooring" faith as a work in your theology. You have hobbled together a deceptively false doctrine that makes faith meritorious because YOU teach that faith is a work of obedience. You're use of the term "work" is deceptive and purposely. You introduce your own meritorious action in salvation. That is your false Gospel.

You're a sinner. You continually sin without ceasing. You haven't keep any commandment worth of salvation.

Do you not NOW.... deserve death?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness and the love of our God Savior toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Titus is not teaching no obeying of Gods commandments are needed in salvation ie Psalm 119:172 works of righteousness.

Listen to verse 4,
When did the kindness and love of God appear for mankind?
Did it appear while we were wicked sinners that never did a work of righteousness?
Yes!
Jesus choose to save us before we every did any works of righteousness!

That is what Titus is teaching.
He is not teaching we do no works of righteousness to be saved!

If he did teach this, then guess what?
There could be no faith involved in salvation.

For faith is a commandment 1John 3:23-24.
That we must obey.
Again obedience to Gods commandments are works of righteousness,
Acts 10:35.

That is the most convoluted nonsense I have read in some time. All you're doing is repeating yourself.

You refuse to acknowledge your lack of righteousness in failing to do good without ceasing. I encourage you to see salvation for what it is. God's own work to Atone for humanity. You dishonor him by promoting your own righteousness. Which you do not have.

 

[Titus]

That is the most convoluted nonsense I have read in some time. All you're doing is repeating yourself.

You refuse to acknowledge your lack of righteousness in failing to do good without ceasing. I encourage you to see salvation for what it is. God's own work to Atone for humanity. You dishonor him by promoting your own righteousness. Which you do not have.

This is a purposeful misrepresentation of what I have taught you this entire conversation.
Sad, you use a strawman. Why? It does you nor I any good.

At least we can agree on one point.
It is the work of God that saves us.

What does this prove?
It proves that faith alone cannot be the gospel of Jesus Christ.

For, the true gospel saves by works!
The works of God!

Salvation is by,
Gods grace(Gods work) our Belief and obedience(working the works of God)

James 2 :24

Man:
You do not have faith in God.
You do not believe that He has kept His promise and preserved His Holy word to keep it infallible.

You lack faith in God,
You do not believe His chosen disciple James is teaching Jesus.
Therefore you reject the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

John 5:24,
Most assuredly I say to you , he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death to life.

Jesus commands all believe the word and in Him.
Only those who believe all of Gods word and have faith in 1Corinthians 15:1-4 will be given everlasting life.

 

[praise_yeshua]

At least we can agree on one point.
It is the work of God that saves us.

Yes.

What does this prove?
It proves that faith alone cannot be the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And you reject what you just claimed we agree upon.

For, the true gospel saves by works!
The works of God!

They why are you making faith a work of men?

Salvation is by,
Gods grace(Gods work) our Belief and obedience(working the works of God)

James 2 :24

It is ridiculous how you appeal to the work of God and then appeal to the work of Abraham in James 2:24. One is not the other.

Man:
You do not have faith in God.
You do not believe that He has kept His promise and preserved His Holy word to keep it infallible.

The preservation of God's word has nothing to do with any bible translation or canon. God word is Eternal and can never cease to exist. It is alive because God is alive forever more.

The very fact you equate the preservation of God's word to be equal to the whim s and silly actions of men. There is no pristine written copy of the Scriptures. Just like your issue with not knowing faith, you have no idea what you're talking about in the canon much less the transmitting of the Scriptures throughout history.

You lack faith in God,
You do not believe His chosen disciple James is teaching Jesus.
Therefore you reject the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

You wouldn't even know about James if some man had not included the writing in his canonical list in the 4th century. There is NO witness to James in the 1st nor 2nd century at all. NONE. Nada.

I reject James because he made silly arguments that contradict the teaching of the Scriptures. "James" mentions the name of Jesus only twice in his entire writing.

Such people never really care about Jesus. I've used the name of Jesus more in this single post than "James" did in his entire writing.

You have nothing more than the traditions of men.

 

[Titus]

Then tell me what is the Inspired revelation of the Holy Spirit?
You just denied the Bible as Gods Holy infallible Word.

You just denied what Jesus said in John 5:24.

You are not a believer.

1Peter 1:24-25
Because all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass,
The grass withers and its flowers falls away.
But the word of the Lord endures forever.

You do not believe Gods promises,

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

1Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace.

By you saying the Bible is full of error. You are the confusion not James.
Certainly not the Holy Bible.

Psalms 12:6-7
The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
You shal keep them O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.

You do not believe King David's prophecy that God will work will work His power to preserve
His word FOREVER!

If James is not from God, then God failed to preserve His revelation to man.

How can you obey Gods commandments if His revelation cannot be trusted?
How can you?
1Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God.

Prove to me you speak the truth, when I cannot trust Gods Holy word!
How then can I know what is truth? Give an answer.

Jude 1-4
Jude a bondservant of Jesus Christ and brother of James
-3
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS.

You do not believe Jude nor James. You do not contend for the faith.

If James is error, then Man is without hope.
We have no way of knowing the true will of God.

If James is an addition God has no power to preserve His revelation to man!
We are all fools for believing in the Bible.

Revelation 22:18-19

You are guilty of taking away the book of James.

 

[Titus]

You did not give an answer to where Peter went against God by not preaching the gospel,

There are no excuses for the actions of the church of Jerusalem. Jews didn't want Gentiles in their assemblies. Peter resisted the Lord Jesus Christ as he had often done. I'm not casting stones at Peter. I'm as bad or worse. YOU ARE TOO.

However, WE MUST see the things for what they are. You can't have absolute truth and wear "rose colored glasses

Give me book, chapter and verse where Peter rebelled against God.
Show me where God had to repeatedly as you claim make Peter obey Him?

Give a Biblical example of when Peter began his ministry. God had to repeatedly tell him to go preach? Where did Peter not want to obey God and preach the gospel?

 

[Titus]

You did not answer my question,
this time, in Peter's life and all Jews for this matter.
How many gentiles did God include into His chosen people?
I'm referring from the time of the first covenant with Abraham till Acts 10 as this time in history, with the Jews and gentiles.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then tell me what is the Inspired revelation of the Holy Spirit?
You just denied the Bible as Gods Holy infallible Word.

You just denied what Jesus said in John 5:24.

You are not a believer.

1Peter 1:24-25
Because all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass,
The grass withers and its flowers falls away.
But the word of the Lord endures forever.

You do not believe Gods promises,

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

1Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace.

By you saying the Bible is full of error. You are the confusion not James.
Certainly not the Holy Bible.

Psalms 12:6-7
The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
You shal keep them O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.

You do not believe King David's prophecy that God will work will work His power to preserve
His word FOREVER!

If James is not from God, then God failed to preserve His revelation to man.

How can you obey Gods commandments if His revelation cannot be trusted?
How can you?
1Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God.

Prove to me you speak the truth, when I cannot trust Gods Holy word!
How then can I know what is truth? Give an answer.

Jude 1-4
Jude a bondservant of Jesus Christ and brother of James
-3
Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was ONCE FOR ALL DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS.

You do not believe Jude nor James. You do not contend for the faith.

If James is error, then Man is without hope.
We have no way of knowing the true will of God.

If James is an addition God has no power to preserve His revelation to man!
We are all fools for believing in the Bible.

Revelation 22:18-19

You are guilty of taking away the book of James.

I was starting to think you were one of those crazy KJVOists. You proved it here. So go ahead. Claim your King James is the ruler of your theology. King James hated the Scriptures in the Geneva Bible and banned the Word of God in England.

Nasty tyrant king James runs your life. You really do love your James' don't you?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You did not give an answer to where Peter went against God by not preaching the gospel,


Give me book, chapter and verse where Peter rebelled against God.
Show me where God had to repeatedly as you claim make Peter obey Him?

Give a Biblical example of when Peter began his ministry. God had to repeatedly tell him to go preach? Where did Peter not want to obey God and preach the gospel?

I already have. God condemned Peter's position at the cross. The roaster crowed thrice. God condemned Peter's position in Acts 10 by thrice demand that Peter eat what he claimed was unclean. Just like you here, you have a mind issue. You can't accept that God makes choices He didnt approve through you first.