James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[praise_yeshua]

There are many problematic issues with this senseless view.

With sinners yes. Whether Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist...

Jesus very clear said that the soul is lost.

Scripture is clear that the soul which sins dies. No soul is dead, except he sins.

All have sinned.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

It is more than just flesh being sinful.

It has nothing to do with flesh being sinful, because no flesh nor any natural thing on earth is unclean and sinful of itself.

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Hilarious......

You're ripping verses from their context.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Paul is referencing the eating of meat.

This about as far I'm going to go with you. You can stop the "one liners" ripped from their context.

 

[Titus]

All have sinned.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;





Hilarious......

You're ripping verses from their context.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Paul is referencing the eating of meat.

This about as far I'm going to go with you. You can stop the "one liners" ripped from their context.

Why should anyone believe you have the truth when we cannot trust the Bible as inerrant?
You teach James is not Inspired.
How can you know the truth?
Explain?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You need to learn the order in which things occurred in the history of the Bible.

The gentiles were not saved by Jesus' gospel until Acts 10.

Show me one gentile Christian before Acts 10?

Really? Do you remember Nineveh? God saved a city full of Gentiles himself......

Do you hate Gentiles like Jonah did?

Did you even pay attention what Peter said in his sermon in Acts 10?

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

The gentiles could convert to Judaism in the old testament.
Then they became part of Gods people.
You will not find any saved born again gentile until Acts 10.

Yes, Jesus ended the chosen people only being Jews on His cross. Both jew and gentile were now chosen equally. But it was not until Acts 10 that gentiles began being saved.

Yep. Dispensationalism causes "mind rot".

You're rejecting what Paul said....

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

THE CROSS destroyed any semblance of differences between Jews and Gentiles. The CROSS..... Not the fact that church at Jerusalem still hated Gentiles and refused to evangelize them.

Rome was evangelized by some that was not part of the church of Jerusalem. There was a long stand assembly in Rome before Paul arrived. The idea that NO GENTILE was saved before Acts 10 is absolutely ridiculous. That would of meant that is was many YEARS after the wall was broke down between Jew and Gentiles before any Gentile was offered Eternal Life. That is absolute utter.... rubbish.

 

[Titus]

Really? Do you remember Nineveh? God saved a city full of Gentiles himself......

Do you hate Gentiles like Jonah did?

Did you even pay attention what Peter said in his sermon in Acts 10?

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.




Yep. Dispensationalism causes "mind rot".

You're rejecting what Paul said....

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

THE CROSS destroyed any semblance of differences between Jews and Gentiles. The CROSS..... Not the fact that church at Jerusalem still hated Gentiles and refused to evangelize them.

Rome was evangelized by some that was not part of the church of Jerusalem. There was a long stand assembly in Rome before Paul arrived. The idea that NO GENTILE was saved before Acts 10 is absolutely ridiculous. That would of meant that is was many YEARS after the wall was broke down between Jew and Gentiles before any Gentile was offered Eternal Life. That is absolute utter.... rubbish.

You need more learning Sir,
Yes, gentiles were saved in the Old testament.
But not then!

Tell me when were all those in the old testament that obeyed God, when were their sins washed away?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why should anyone believe you have the truth when we cannot trust the Bible as inerrant?
You teach James is not Inspired.
How can you know the truth?
Explain?

I have explained it to you several times now. James was written late. Probably in the late 2nd or 3rd century. It was not written by anyone with an authoritative position.

The ONLY reason you believe James is "Inspired" is because someone the late 3rd and 4th century added it to the list of "approved" works.

I'm not bound by the choices of men.

I all seriousness. It is rather obvious that you've "drank the Kool-Aid" feed you from men your entire life. If you want to debate the Biblical Canon, then start a thread.

For the record. I don't want "James" removed from any Bible. I just others to take it for what it is. Evidence that there was "war" to control the narrative of what the death of Jesus Christ meant to this world. People must make choices. I just want them to be informed. That is all....

Using "Inspiration" as means to "SELL" your false narrative is shallow and self defeating. You can't past the first line of any canonical discussion. You obviously know nothing about it. I've been studying the subject for decades.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You need more learning Sir,
Yes, gentiles were saved in the Old testament.
But not then!

Tell me when were all those in the old testament that obeyed God, when were their sins washed away?

Sin was defeated/Atoned for at the Cross. Many were forgiven long before.

Jesus chided Nicodemus because he didn't recognize the "New birth".

 

[Titus]

Really? Do you remember Nineveh? God saved a city full of Gentiles himself......

Do you hate Gentiles like Jonah did?

Did you even pay attention what Peter said in his sermon in Acts 10?

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.




Yep. Dispensationalism causes "mind rot".

You're rejecting what Paul said....

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

THE CROSS destroyed any semblance of differences between Jews and Gentiles. The CROSS..... Not the fact that church at Jerusalem still hated Gentiles and refused to evangelize them.

Rome was evangelized by some that was not part of the church of Jerusalem. There was a long stand assembly in Rome before Paul arrived. The idea that NO GENTILE was saved before Acts 10 is absolutely ridiculous. That would of meant that is was many YEARS after the wall was broke down between Jew and Gentiles before any Gentile was offered Eternal Life. That is absolute utter.... rubbish.

When did both jew and gentile from the old testament get there sins washed away?

 

[praise_yeshua]

When did both jew and gentile from the old testament get there sins washed away?

Wow, that sure was difficult to answer.....

Truth is often very simple. It is UNBELIEF that clouds the mind. You're missing the obvious because it goes against what you've been taught by men.

 

[Titus]

Sin was defeated/Atoned for at the Cross. Many were forgiven long before.

Only the shed blood of Jesus Christ cleansed the sins of those in the old testament.
No animal sacrifices could atone for the sins of Jews or gentiles in the old testament.

Now go to the new testament.
When did God first begin to save gentiles with the gospel of Jesus Christ?
All those in the old testament that are now dead, had remission of sins when Jesus shed His blood on the cross.

Now we are in the new covenant.
When did the gentiles begin to be saved in the new covenant?
Answer Acts 10.

You are in error that the Jews did not preach to the gentiles in Acts 2 because of hating the gentiles.
Or because of rebelling against God.
The Jews did not know, that God had included the gentiles into His kingdom until when?
Answer Acts 10.

So, you are simply wrong that Peter was rebelling against God.
You do not know your Bible well enough.
Peter was the first jew told by God to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to a gentile.

No gentiles in the old testament became christians.
They only became jews.

The gentiles in the old testament did not get saved until Jesus' death on the cross.
God purposely did not tell Peter or the rest of the apostles in Acts 2 that He has also chosen the gentiles.

Nowhere is there any example of the apostles not obeying Gods commandments to preach the gospel to all nations. They did exactly what God told them when God told them to go to the gentiles, Acts10.

 

[Titus]

Why should I believe you have the truth?
You do not believe the Bible is inerrant?

 

[Titus]

I have explained it to you several times now. James was written late. Probably in the late 2nd or 3rd century. It was not written by anyone with an authoritative position.

The ONLY reason you believe James is "Inspired" is because someone the late 3rd and 4th century added it to the list of "approved" works.

I'm not bound by the choices of men.

I all seriousness. It is rather obvious that you've "drank the Kool-Aid" feed you from men your entire life. If you want to debate the Biblical Canon, then start a thread.

For the record. I don't want "James" removed from any Bible. I just others to take it for what it is. Evidence that there was "war" to control the narrative of what the death of Jesus Christ meant to this world. People must make choices. I just want them to be informed. That is all....

Using "Inspiration" as means to "SELL" your false narrative is shallow and self defeating. You can't past the first line of any canonical discussion. You obviously know nothing about it. I've been studying the subject for decades.

Good! I'd love you to teach me what is the true gospel of Jesus Christ, since I cannot trust certain writers of the Bible. Explain it to me?

 

[robert derrick]

Again, James is not talking about Initial Salvation and so to assume that his statement that says faith without works is dead (James 2:17) applies in our Initial Salvation is incorrect. James is talking to those who are believers already in James chapter 2. James therefore must be referring to what happens to a believer AFTER they are saved by God’s grace. Sanctification is what follows after a believer is saved by God’s grace. Paul on the other hand says to the Ephesian believers that they are saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (made alive). This is a one time event when you first accept Christ. So Paul is talking about Initial Salvation and Foundational Salvation and Paul is not referring to 2 Thessalonians 2:13 that says that God has chosen you to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit (Which is a call of the gospel - 2 Thessalonians 2:14).

Again, James is not talking about Initial Salvation and so to assume that his statement that says faith without works is dead (James 2:17) applies in our Initial Salvation is incorrect.

Really. I never thought that reading can faith save him, not apply to being saved.

What is incorrect is speaking of some 'initial' salvation that appears nowhere in Scripture, and then is presumed to be used for changing Scripture elsewhere to keep it initially saved and not just saved.

James is talking about salvation by faith with works in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You are talking about 'initial' salvation by your own faith in another gospel that is accursed.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Only a destroyer of one's own mind can think to try and make difference between being saved from being initially saved, and so changing can faith save him? to can faith initially save him?

You peddle your stuff to yourself and one another with fine words like 'initial' and 'foundational' all you wish. It's rubbish and childishly insulting to normal intelligence and reasonable readers of Scripture.

That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.

 

[Titus]

Again, James is not talking about Initial Salvation and so to assume that his statement that says faith without works is dead (James 2:17) applies in our Initial Salvation is incorrect.

He is talking about initial salvation friend,
James 2:14
What does it profit my brethren. If someone says he has faith (alone) but does not have works? Can faith (alone) save him?

James is asking the question, can faith alone save us?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Good! I'd love you to teach me what is the true gospel of Jesus Christ, since I cannot trust certain writers of the Bible. Explain it to me?

Like a good KJVOist, you can't possibly accept anything but king jimmy approved for you. The Scriptures were given by God to humanity long before king james came around. It is sad you believe everything he approved for you.

I have a different King. I believe King Jesus.

Your response is unlearned and shallow. Even if I wanted to remove "James" it would do anything to "weaken" the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

I wonder just how the disciples made it when all they had were the OT Scriptures...... poor poor disciples.

You can tell you've never question anything your Dispensational KJVOist masters have taught you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

He is talking about initial salvation friend,
James 2:14
What does it profit my brethren. If someone says he has faith (alone) but does not have works? Can faith (alone) save him?

James is asking the question, can faith alone save us?

The answer is yes. Faith alone saves. James is asking a silly question.

What saved Abraham?

 

[Titus]

The answer is yes. Faith alone saves. James is asking a silly question.

What saved Abraham?

Not until Jesus shed His blood on the cross.

I'm waiting for you to teach me "How we can know which writers in the Bible are teaching the true revelation of God".

 

[praise_yeshua]

Why should I believe you have the truth?
You do not believe the Bible is inerrant?

You don't even understand Inerrancy. Inerrancy deals with the process of imparting the Scripture via Inspiration "AS ORIGINALLY" given.

Your KJV is far from being inerrant. There are horrible translations in the KJV. Ones that make men the masters of other men.

Take for example. Hebrews 13

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Your puppet masters have been keeping you control all these years with verses like these. You are THERE puppet.

The Greek source for the English word RULE is not found in Hebrews 13. In fact, read the Geneva....

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the oversight of you,

Heb 13:8 Remember them which have the oversight of you,

BIG difference between "OVERSIGHT" and "RULE"..... You're being ruled by men.

 

[Titus]

he answer is yes. Faith alone saves. James is asking a silly question.

What saved Abraham?
This us how Abraham was saved,
]You are incorrect about initial salvation.
No one was saved by belief without obedience. Not one example in all the bible teaches this.

You are incorrect about James' teachijg.
James taught salvation comes only by an obedient faith, James 2:14 ; 2:24-26.

James gives us the example of Abraham being saved by faith and obedience to Gods commandments.

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
-23
And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God.

James is quoting Genesis 15:6,
And he believed in the Lord and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Did Abraham become righteous in the eyes of God by doing nothing? Just belief?
No, His faith was justified made perfect because he believed then obeyed God!

Genesis 22:12,
And God said, Do not lay your hand on the Lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God since you have not withheld your son, your only son from Me.

Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness because it had obedient works!

Genesis 26:5,
Because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.

It was an obedient faith that saved Abraham.
If Abraham only believed God but never obeyed Gods commands to leave his homeland.
God would have never said in Genesis 15:6 that Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness.

Did Abraham do nothing before Genesis 15:6? Just believe?
No, With his faith he obeyed God.

Genesis 12:1-20 obedience not faith only
Genesis 13:1-18 obedience not faith only
Genesis 14:1-24 obedience not faith only

Genesis 15:6 God tells Abraham because of his faith with works of obedience, God accounts his faith as righteousness.

No one is justified or made righteous by God with belief and no obedience ie faith alone.

James 2:19,
You believe there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe (alone) and tremble.[/QUOTE]

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not until Jesus shed His blood on the cross.

I'm waiting for you to teach me "How we can know which writers in the Bible are teaching the true revelation of God".

Paul didn't preach the book of James.

Jesus didn't reference the book of James.

King David didn't reference the book of James.....

 

[Titus]

Funny you know me so well, considering I am a complete stranger to you!

English translations are not inerrant.
But the revelation of God is.
Now teach me what is the true revelation of God