Run AWAY from Calvinism!

[Lifelong_sinner]

Yep! It looks biblical!

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Anyone familiar with the Canons of Dort should know that Calvinists do not believe that God works on his people by means of forcible coercion. Instead, we believe that God supernaturally, sovereignly, and irresistibly renews our hearts so that we can feel and choose and do what we ought.
If this means we are to be puppets, so be it. Choosing God is not about our lot in life, i dont care if im a billionaire living the best life, or dying in a hospital bed with stage 4 cancer, give me God first and foremost. But, He has to want us first, so that we can want Him at all.

John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

But I would disagree with you about double election. God does not elect anyone to hell. All are born lost and already condemened! He only elects teh saved!

see? This guy ^^^^^^^ gets it. I love it when calvinism is taught correctly.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Redemption is not a quasi-theological, zero-sum equation exercise for me. Sorry. I see it as a living, breathing, vital force—Jesus. I rarely see any meaningful mention of Him in any of these ridiculous orthodoxy volleyball games. You're free to cling to the reactionary, partisan 5-point box. I really don't mean to be dismissive but I'll take the Bible as it reads. That's just where I'm at.

You've stated plainly that, in your judgment, I don't understand the issues, and that I definitely believe in Arminianism (which reminds me so much of the current state of American politics that it makes me feel sick to my stomach to hear from a Christian).

So far, what I've heard of the "Calvinist" Gospel is just a mess of disjointed information and denunciation that strikes no chord in my heart. I'll take Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. Hold the 5 points, please.

I can scarcely believe I've even spent as much time as I have considering it—again. I suppose it was for my good, new friend @Johann's sake. I'm so glad to have met him and seen him wrestle this thing to victory in Jesus.

then stop writing on these theological threads! But the personal is based on the theological. We evangelize in the personal because we know the theoloogical.. It is not and either/or but a both /and!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

see? This guy ^^^^^^^ gets it. I love it when calvinism is taught correctly.

Calvinism when taught correctly is merely reiterating biblical truth.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Calvinism when taught correctly is merely reiterating biblical truth.

i could not agree more. Calvin never introduced anything new, he merely stated that he agreed 100% with Paul.

 

[Johann]

There is no substitute for heart preparation in facing church attendance. I'm sure that's been your experience as well.

See the title "pastor" on my profile?
I was not a pastor of a church, but in the heart of hearts, the toughest ministry ever, outreach in Durban...know what I'm sayin' Barn?
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

NOW you’re getting somewhere. Now goto Romans 9:15-21 and you will see the doctrine of election as well as the correct response to it;

“For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?”

Romans 9 proves calvinism is Biblical. Calvin didnt create any doctrine, his TULIP is nothing more than him saying he agrees 100% with paul.

I guess those of you who God has refused to save might try to comfort one another. It would not work to comfort me. I came to the realization one day that everything was very insufficient. It was all insufficiency, it was too difficult, it was all ugly, and no little occasional comforts here and there changed that. And I thought, if this is all there is and then death, then those who commit suicide are the wisest men among us. If I had been told there was good news only to then be told it was only good news for others but not me and that God had decided I would be made to suffer, not just in this life but continued for eternity, my hopelessness would only have increased if I believed it and suicide would no longer have been just a musing or a thought but a certainty for me.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yeah, the problems keep snowballing until you wind up with something that looks nothing like our Lord.

Like I say, a theological train wreck. Jesus is nowhere to be found in it. Some of the early reformers had a way of stating things that modern armchair Internet scholars tend to twist into not-so-pleasing fables that somehow even manage to captivate the hearts of those who search for God. It is the strong drink of Babylon's daughters.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Like I say, a theological train wreck. Jesus is nowhere to be found in it. Some of the early reformers had a way of stating things that modern armchair Internet scholars tend to twist into not-so-pleasing fables that somehow even manage to captivate the hearts of those who search for God. It is the strong drink of Babylon's daughters.

Ive not read anywhere where a man pleaded to be given sight where Jesus ever refused to heal him.

 

[BarneyFife]

then stop writing on these theological threads!

Make me.

At least I can admit that I don't have it all figured out.

I think the burden of proof might be on you folks in this thread.
I'm not convinced.
I'm trying to become changed by beholding Christ.
Are you ready to behold the brightness of His coming?
I hope 5-point-ism has prepared you.
I truly do.

 

[BarneyFife]

See the title "pastor" on my profile?
I was not a pastor of a church, but in the heart of hearts, the toughest ministry ever, outreach in Durban...know what I'm sayin' Barn?
J.

You asked me what to do next. I didn't know it was meant rhetorically.
God calls men to be pastors because He knows it's the only way He can save them.
Some of the most wretched men I've known have been pastors...
...which is probably why I have such a soft spot for them.
When I transfer to a new church (I relocate often), the first thing I do is to get close to the pastor and find out what I can do to lighten his load. The devil is relentless in his attacks against them and their families. He gets them too busy to stay connected with God—works every time. They're often unappreciated and misunderstood. They think that their work will keep them connected. Martin Luther prayed for at least 2 hours a day. Jesus often prayed all night long. I knew a pastor once (of a church of 600 members) who got so buffeted by the enemy that he just took off one day in his van. We finally found him living in it 250 miles away. He was a mess. We got him cleaned up and returned home and he became a parochial schoolteacher—eventually the principal. I don't think he was ever called to be a pastor by the way he talked. Wonderful fellow—just not the man for the job, you know? I did a few months in Bolivia about 25 years ago. I operated a little machine shop and did some door-to-door medical missionary work. But I'm rambling.

 

[Grailhunter]

Westminster Confessions chpt 28, parts 3, 4, 6, and 7;
“3. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.

4. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ, but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.

6. The efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered; yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in his appointed time.

7. The sacrament of baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.”

And you say infant baptisms are biblical....show me....I would like that.
I mean from the Bible.....infant baptisms....

 

[Renniks]

These 2 things bring hope that despite being soooooo depraved, God still loves and will save them.

Lol, not if they aren't chosen. What kind of hope is that anyway? Do you hope to be saved but don't care about all the people that aren't given your hope? Paul said he could almost wish himself damned to save the Jews. Was Paul more merciful than God?

 

[Renniks]

see? This guy ^^^^^^^ gets it. I love it when calvinism is taught correctly.

Only he's wrong. Calvinism teaches double election either by default or by God deliberately choosing most for hell... same thing, really.

 

[Grailhunter]

Anyone familiar with the Canons of Dort should know that Calvinists do not believe that God works on his people by means of forcible coercion. Instead, we believe that God supernaturally, sovereignly, and irresistibly renews our hearts so that we can feel and choose and do what we ought.
If this means we are to be puppets, so be it. Choosing God is not about our lot in life, i dont care if im a billionaire living the best life, or dying in a hospital bed with stage 4 cancer, give me God first and foremost. But, He has to want us first, so that we can want Him at all.

John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Free will to choose....everything and anything.
Or not?
I heard it explained so many ways. I choose to believe in free-will.
Whether its slaves to God's will or unable to resist God it all plays out to be a very long, boring, and cruel set of predetermined history that resulted in misery, sadness, cruelty forced on mankind. And in the process paints God as a monstrous puppet master and mankind as helpless victims

for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13 Do you think that God enjoys the misery and sorrow He orchestrated?

 

[BarneyFife]

NOW you’re getting somewhere. Now goto Romans 9:15-21 and you will see the doctrine of election as well as the correct response to it;

“For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?”

Romans 9 proves calvinism is Biblical. Calvin didnt create any doctrine, his TULIP is nothing more than him saying he agrees 100% with paul.

You just outed yourself as a Romans 9 worshipper. You need to repent and believe on The Real JC for the remission of sins. As long as you keep acting like a lost sinner, that's the way you're going to be treated by everyone. You can't be trusted to instruct others if you are yet in your sins. Can't you see that? Your fellow creedalists all just stand by and watch you suffer. How utterly disgusting! Believe the Gospel according to Jesus Christ—not Romans 9—and you will be saved.

 

[BarneyFife]

Lol, not if they aren't chosen. What kind of hope is that anyway? Do you hope to be saved but don't care about all the people that aren't given your hope? Paul said he could almost wish himself damned to save the Jews. Was Paul more merciful than God?

Moses, too.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And you say infant baptisms are biblical....show me....I would like that.
I mean from the Bible.....infant baptisms....

Not exactly biblical I guess. It’s sort of like…how they used to present a child to the priest, with an offering. Or…a way to say, I want this child to be dedicated to God. Sacraments of the church are like…pictures of the spirit of the matter. They portray a spiritual reality. They aren’t in themselves the thing they portray. This includes circumcision, marriage, water baptism. They speak of spiritual realities.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

You just outed yourself as a Romans 9 worshipper. You need to repent and believe on The Real JC for the remission of sins. As long as you keep acting like a lost sinner, that's the way you're going to be treated by everyone. You can't be trusted to instruct others if you are yet in your sins. Can't you see that? Your fellow creedalists all just stand by and watch you suffer. How utterly disgusting! Believe the Gospel according to Jesus Christ—not Romans 9—and you will be saved.

romans 9 last i checked was still in the Bible. Romans 9 is truth. Not smart to ignore it.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Not exactly biblical I guess. It’s sort of like…how they used to present a child to the priest, with an offering. Or…a way to say, I want this child to be dedicated to God. Sacraments of the church are like…pictures of the spirit of the matter. They portray a spiritual reality. They aren’t in themselves the thing they portray. This includes circumcision, marriage, water baptism. They speak of spiritual realities.

infant baptism is absolutely Biblical. We do quite a bit of them at my church and its great to see the kids getting baptized.