The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Davy]

The act of being beheaded is that witness. Just refusing the mark is not getting rid of Adam's flesh and blood. Being alive without loosing one's head will not get one resurrected. They are only resurrected, because they cut off their heads. Being beheaded was their witness statement. How big of a difference would it be if they accepted Christ and then instead of being baptized, they cut off their head? What if cutting off their head was their confession of faith? What you think is that they get saved, then go to the government and ask to have their head cut off? If they never get their head cut off, they can never be resurrected! Their salvation is a symbolic baptism of fire. Their salvation is one literally having their heads chopped off.
....

Not everyone of the 1st resurrection is from having their head chopped off.

Those persecuted for The Word of God are also of that "first resurrection" and reign with Jesus. And we KNOW per His Word that not all of His Church get their heads chopped off during the "great tribulation" at the end, otherwise there would be no saints left to gather by Jesus and His angels at His future coming!

 

[Timtofly]

As you are aware, the Three concepts of thought, concerning "a thousand years" are: Amillenialism, Premillennialism and Postmillennialism.

It is evident, that we are definitely discussing only two concepts of thought here, of how "a thousand years" is to be interpreted and applied, being that of Premillennialism vs. Amillennialism.

For the sake of argument, I am only focussing on two of the three concepts of "a thousand years", which drives and directs our understanding for either of the two belief systems, for an understanding of what God means by "a thousand years".
Premillennialism
1. A literal period of a thousand years after Jesus returns, for Him to reign ON the earth WITH His chosen saints, OVER unsaved people.

Amillennialism:
2. A symbolic period of a thousand years before Jesus returns, for Him to reign WITHIN the earth of His chosen saints, AMONG unsaved people.

In concept #1, the book of Revelation is being applied, in order to interpret all the NT scriptures.

In concept #2, all the NT scriptures are being applied, in order to interpret the book of Revelation.

Both of these views are wrong.

The Millennium is after the conclusion of Daniel's 70th week.

The Cross was not the conclusion of Daniel's 70th week.

No one will get the Millennium correct, if they cannot even interpret Daniel's 70 weeks correctly.

 

[Timtofly]

Nice try to equate Premillennialism with Dispensationlism and all Premillennialists with Dispensationalists but it fails as all your other arguments do. Pre-millennialism is way over a thousand years older than Darby and Dispensationalism. You should read up on Classic (historic) Premillennialism.

Would that argument also be making Amillennialism fit under dispensational theory? Some Amil are just as dispensational as any other eschatological view. The harder one argues against dispensations they have to create some type of dispensational view, themselves. Even if only two dispensations.

Is it that bad for there to be a dispensation without sin and death, and Satan?

Was it wrong that Adam and Eve lived in a dispensation without sin in the world? Is it wrong to call 6,000 years of sin a dispensation? Are the OT and NT different dispensations or just the same long 6,000 year dispensation?

What exactly determines a dispensation to begin with?

 

[Davy]

@Davy Added: If you choose to change the meaning of what Paul was saying to mean a body other than the flesh-and-blood body that was sown into the earth in death and raised a non-flesh-and-blood (spiritual) body then that's something I have no control over. But I know what Paul was saying, and I don't try to change it

It would be good if you don't falsely claim or imply that I've said anything except what Paul said in the verses I list, but whether it's you falsely accusing me of pushing soul-sleep and being a Judaizer or what you falsely imply above, I also have no control over.

That in red DOES NOT keep to the actual Bible Scripture by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, nor 2 Corinthians 5.

Flesh and blood CANNOT be changed to a spirit, just as Jesus Himself said...

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV


But YOU instead say our flesh body is raised to become a spirit body, which Paul did NOT say that.

So it is YOU that is pushing men's false leaven doctrines about that, not me.

 

[Davy]

You've made it obvious now that you are the one who's adding through conjecture saints from other epochs or ages. But I don't do that. I stick to the text. The text does not say anything that suggests we need to go using conjecture and other scripture talking about different things or other saints in other epochs to the narrative.

I really get tired of your continuous false claim that you stick to Scripture when you obviously do not.

The Revelation 20:4 Scripture is not about 'only' believers that are beheaded. Proof?
There is NO later resurrection for those who remained faithful in Christ. The ONLY ones available to be saved after that "first resurrection" are those only of the nations to convert to Jesus DURING the "thousand years" reign with His elect.

Only the OVERCOMERS in Christ Jesus will reign with Him for that "thousand years", or did you MISS that too in His Book of Revelation? And to infer there have been no 'overcomers' in Christ prior to the "great tribulation" is to be totally defunct from Bible doctrine.

 

[Timtofly]

Thusly, that verse is NOT ALL about those being beheaded. I don't know who keeps pushing that false idea that they all are either about saints during the tribulation, or saints only that are beheaded.

If all the church is on earth for 1,000 years, who comes down as the Bride in the New Jerusalem?


"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Jesus is not the groom coming down in the New Jerusalem. Jesus is the groom on the earth. Who is the bride coming down as the New Jerusalem? You claim the church was on the earth the whole time. If the church is on the earth as the groom, who is the bride coming down from heaven?

At the end of the Millennium Jesus is handing back the kingdom, yes, but no! Jesus already presented the OT redeemed to God at the Cross and Resurrection. Jesus already presented the church as His bride at the Second Coming. If the bride was presented to God and in Heaven, why does Jesus need another 1,000 physical years on earth? That is why Amil question your logic. The Millennial Kingdom is another separate body of Christ than the bride coming down as the New Jerusalem. See 1 Corinthians 15:23-24. There are 3 presentations: Christ the firstfruits; those glorified at the Second Coming; and finally those born during the 1,000 year reign of Christ physically on the earth. 3 separate presentations with 3 separate groups of redeemed individuals. None of the previous groups return to earth to mix it up with the other groups. If people want to label that as dispensational, that is on them. We know the OT are currently not alive on earth. Why would we return to earth for the last 1,000 years, if they have not during the last 1992 years?

The Church does not need more time on earth, and neither would the OT redeemed need to come back and live on earth since the Cross, like the Amil would have to conclude if the Millennium was between the Cross and the Second Coming. They like you would force all the OT saints to be reigning with Christ on earth in the here and now, yet they claim they are in heaven. The redeemed will still be in heaven for the next Millennium. The difference is that Satan will be bound. There will be no more sin and no more Adam's dead flesh and blood.

The church is currently not living on earth and never dying for hundreds of years. Nor will the church be on the earth in the future never dying for hundreds of years, on this earth.


The church will not return until after that final GWT, after current reality ceases altogether.

That is why Revelation 20:4 is not the resurrection of Abel on the earth. Abel has been in Paradise after the physical resurrection of Christ allowed all the OT to be physically back in Paradise. All the NT church that has passed into eternal life are physically enjoying Paradise. No one in Paradise is currently waiting a physical body. They are waiting for the putting on of the Spirit, the robe of white. Being glorified in the full image of God, soul, body, and spirit. The soul puts on the physical body, and has since the Cross. At the Second Coming the soul puts on the spirit over the physical body. We alive today still need to put on both the physical body and the spirit over the physical body.

That is the only view if you reject the old Judaism teaching about Adam's flesh being put on at the resurrection. You are denying God's permanent incorruptible physical body, which has been available to all the redeemed since the Resurrected physical body of Christ. That is not the teaching of the Pharisees. The Pharisees rejected everything that had to do with their Messiah. Now you reject God's Word using the Pharisees as a strawman argument.

 

[Zao is life]

Nah..., Apostle Paul did NOT teach that it is our flesh that is raised at the resurrection.

Nah. I never said that Paul taught that it's our flesh that is raised, so another false implication on your part that I said something I did not. Everyone else can see me referring to the body that is raised as a non-flesh-and-blood body, multiple times. So I never bothered reading anything else you said. Too many false implications about what I'm saying in your posts.

 

[Timtofly]

Not everyone of the 1st resurrection is from having their head chopped off.

Those persecuted for The Word of God are also of that "first resurrection" and reign with Jesus. And we KNOW per His Word that not all of His Church get their heads chopped off during the "great tribulation" at the end, otherwise there would be no saints left to gather by Jesus and His angels at His future coming!

That is why the Second Coming is the 6th Seal, before the final harvest, not at the end of a harvest remotely carried out from heaven.

You deny Jesus and the angels are literally here during the final harvest even though Matthew 13 declares just that. Armageddon is 42 months after the final harvest, not the start of the final harvest.

We are to endure until we physically die. We are not told to endure until the battle of Armageddon. How can those 100 years ago be saved if they had to endure until the battle of Armageddon? Was only one generation told to endure or the whole NT church from Stephen until now?

 

[Zao is life]

Would that argument also be making Amillennialism fit under dispensational theory? Some Amil are just as dispensational as any other eschatological view. The harder one argues against dispensations they have to create some type of dispensational view, themselves. Even if only two dispensations.

Is it that bad for there to be a dispensation without sin and death, and Satan?

Was it wrong that Adam and Eve lived in a dispensation without sin in the world? Is it wrong to call 6,000 years of sin a dispensation? Are the OT and NT different dispensations or just the same long 6,000 year dispensation?

What exactly determines a dispensation to begin with?

Dispensational Premillennialism consists of a lot more than only talking about "different dispensations in God's gradually unfolding plan of salvation" (or whatever words Disp. uses to define it). Dispensationalism also teaches something that Amillennialists and Historic/Classic Premillennialists certainly do not teach, i.e Two Israel's: One being the church, and the other being the unsaved Jews who they regard as still being God's chosen people, and Disp. also has all Old Testament prophecy that is fulfilled in Christ and in the New Jerusalem, instead being fulfilled in 'national Israel' (or whatever they choose to call it), where the nations are going up to the land of Israel in that geographic location in the Middle East every year (in the millennium) to worship Christ who has become seated on "His throne" in earthy Jerusalem and is the Messiah of Israel ruling all nations from there, in a day when all Jews are saved.

Some even have a 'third temple' in earthly Jerusalem (a building made with human hands) as the throne of Christ.

There is a lot of teaching in Dispensatonalism that is totally rejected by all Amillennialists and by all Historic Premillennialists.

I believe it's this Disp. teaching that @Earburner was referring to in that post (which he put up in reply to @ewq1938) .

I know I kept replying to posts he made that were not replying to me, but because he is speaking about all Premillennialists and misrepresenting Premillennialism, I replied to what he said.

 

[Timtofly]

That in red DOES NOT keep to the actual Bible Scripture by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, nor 2 Corinthians 5.

Flesh and blood CANNOT be changed to a spirit, just as Jesus Himself said...

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV


But YOU instead say our flesh body is raised to become a spirit body, which Paul did NOT say that.

So it is YOU that is pushing men's false leaven doctrines about that, not me.

Are you saying that Adam never had a physical body, until he ate from the tree?

This "spiritual" body is still a physical body. The body is physical. The spirit is spiritual.

Adam's body is flesh. Christ's body is physical but permanent.

Flesh indicates a fallen corruptible sin nature condition. The physical body from God is permanent incorruptible, but still physical and tangible, just without a sin nature.

That is the difference with the effect of sin. Not the point one is no longer physical. Adam was in a spiritual physical body and died both physically and spiritually. The spirit is with God. Adam's flesh returns to dust. The soul gets a different physical body that is permanent from God, and the spirit is returned to put on over the physical body. The soul puts on the body, incorruptible, then puts on the spirit, putting on immortality. Putting on God around the physical body of Christ.

The Holy Spirit dwells within controlling the soul/mind. Demons, reprobate spirits, dwell within controlling the soul/mind. Our spirit is a robe of white, an outer "garment" put on around the physical body. The example is Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration. Jesus demonstrated what happens when the spirit surrounds the physical body. That is what Adam and Eve were before Adam disobeyed God, and literally died. The soul lost both the permanent incorruptible physical body and the spirit, the robe of white. Adam was given dead corruptible flesh. Adam and Eve passed that dead corruptible flesh to all their offspring. That is why Adam's flesh cannot live on during the Millennium. The last time Adam's flesh lived with the sons of God, the sons of God procreated with Adam's flesh and blood. The church now glorified as sons of God in the full image of God, will not live together with those humans on earth who are not glorified. Those on earth are not in Adam's dead flesh mixing it up with those in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. There is no sin nor sin nature, period! Jesus as Prince is ruling with an iron rod. Disobedience is instant Death. NOT the same death as Adam. Adam was allowed to live in sin and death. Those in the Millennium will be placed in Death, not allowed to live on in sin and corruptible flesh.

That is why the Millennium is not in the here and now, and why those in the here and now will not live on earth again for 1,000 years. This is the Sabbath Day period after Adam's 6,000 years of sin and death. It is separated and a Holy creation, and Satan is bound to prevent any interaction with these humans until the very end, and only after the 1,000 years will those humans be given a short opportunity to follow Satan like all the rest of humanity did in the previous 6,000 years of Adam's disobedience. Those resurrected at the very beginning cannot choose to follow Satan a second time, as in their previous life on earth. They are represented as the camp of the saints, the original humans who had many generations of offspring. But their offspring now have the choice presented to fallow Satan and rebel, or remain faithful to the Prince. Perhaps my interpretation does not make any sense to you, and you are stuck with man's indoctrination no matter how much you deny that point. All pre-mill were taught Adam's flesh and blood live on and sin continues to rule. That is not found in Scripture any where. You tend to carry on the Amil thought that sin reigns just like the here and now. Satan is bound just like the here and now.

You do not allow for a new creation after the Second Coming to begin the Millennium reign, even though Isaiah 65 declares a new heaven and earth. You claim the same old sin bound creation since Adam. The only difference is you claim a "spiritual body", that you cannot even define, and Christ reigns on earth. Just saying the words "spiritual body" is meaningless. Paul declares it is permanent and incorruptible. It is still physical, as Adam and all sons of God had a physical body. That is how procreation occurs. However after life on this earth, life in Paradise no longer has the ability to procreate. But that does not mean the lack of the physical. It means the physical lacks that attribute. But that cannot be a restriction in the Millennium, because Isaiah indicates many offspring. If there is offspring in the NHNE, why would there be none in the Millennium? It is not like one species on earth is trying to change another species into their species as some biological test of God, while one species cannot procreate, and the other one is allegedly being curtailed from over coming the earth with rampant procreation abilities. It is the return to before Adam and Eve, and the ability of having many generations of offspring on earth, just without sin and Satan. Instead of one couple, there are millions of redeemed starting out the Millennium. These are the firstfruits of the Millennium during the final harvest. These are the sheep and the wheat gathered during the Trumpets and Thunders. The sheep and wheat are not beheaded, but they certainly will be changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh into permanent incorruptible physical bodies.

They are given the same bodies as those resurrected who were beheaded. This is still a physical change. The sheep and wheat do not need a resurrection from physical beheading. They just need a change/resurrection out of Adam's dead flesh. John never mentions a harvest nor the sheep and wheat. John is not about every day life in general with mundane details. John writes in events and judgments, not about the people going through everyday experiences.

 

[Timtofly]

Dispensational Premillennialism consists of a lot more than only talking about "different dispensations in God's gradually unfolding plan of salvation" (or whatever words Disp. uses to define it). Dispensationalism also teaches something that Amillennialists and Historic/Classic Premillennialists certainly do not teach, i.e Two Israel's: One being the church, and the other being the unsaved Jews who they regard as still being God's chosen people, and Disp. also has all Old Testament prophecy that is fulfilled in Christ and in the New Jerusalem, instead being fulfilled in 'national Israel' (or whatever they choose to call it), where the nations are going up to the land of Israel in that geographic location in the Middle East every year (in the millennium) to worship Christ who has become seated on "His throne" in earthy Jerusalem and is the Messiah of Israel ruling all nations from there, in a day when all Jews are saved.

Some even have a 'third temple' in earthly Jerusalem (a building made with human hands) as the throne of Christ.

There is a lot of teaching in Dispensatonalism that is totally rejected by all Amillennialists and by all Historic Premillennialists.

I believe it's this Disp. teaching that @Earburner was referring to in that post (which he put up in reply to @ewq1938) .

I know I kept replying to posts he made that were not replying to me, but because he is speaking about all Premillennialists and misrepresenting Premillennialism, I replied to what he said.

Unless the Millennium is a totally different dispensation altogether, then it is pointless to even have a Millennium. Of course people try to define this period of time. Amil could call it the A-dispensation, that cannot exist, because Revelation 20 is just the same time loop mentioned in Revelation several times. Amil invent this recapitulation of time.

Even in Augustine's day that was the argument that there cannot be another dispensation after the one they actually lived in.

I was never taught any pre-mil view as you describe. I can never even remember needing such pre-mil error as the Jews needing the Millennium to fulfill prophecy. Especially outside of Christ. Did I think that every Israelite ever born lost or redeemed would only be resurrected at a Second Coming? It is possible that I did. But that would put me still at odds with classical pre-mill dispensational thought, as they also included redeemed Gentiles. Now the argument turns to replacement theology. Israel became the church, and stopped being genetic. Now the dispensation went from Israel remaining Israel and set aside, to now the church, and Gentiles are just the lost sheep of Israel and still Israel. Still a form of dispensational thought even though historist and amil deny such a dispensational divide. This still leaves us with only Israel was redeemed and another group outside of the Gentiles as those never redeemed at all. Yet still Israel rejects the Messiah and are not forced out, because they can still choose on their own volition, they just remain in a rejective state of their choosing, not God's.

That sounds great, and the national political Jew can still seek a Jewish state, but the lost are still the lost sheep of Israel and not the other nationalities of the earth. If that were true, then if a person admits redemption, they have to make the whole earth the lost sheep of Israel and no other ethnicity exist separate to Israel as the idealist justify their gospel. Yet even among Israel, Jesus in Matthew 25 now points out there are goats in with the lost sheep of Israel at the end. The metric is not nationality. The metric is one's attitude:

"Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Certainly these are all of Israel ideally or genetically, but not all of Israel are Israel. The idealist cannot deny their spiritual nor ambiguous definition of Israel. Now they have to admit these are not even spiritually redeemed humans at all. The Atonement is based on what God did on the Cross, not what humans do or not do. Are we now going to say the goats were not ideally nor genetically ambiguous, but outside of Israel totally? Yet these sheep are as well, "outside of Israel" as the metric for these particular sheep is not the Atonement (Israel) but works or one's attitude. So what are the actual words:

"And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Israel is not even named. Jesus is not separating the righteous from the unrighteous. Jesus is sitting and judging all nations and separating them as a shepherd divides. Jesus is claiming sheep who never were sheep prior to this point. Am I being hypocritical in stating that now, after the church has been removed Jesus is calling Israel out of the nations? Or is Israel being called out of the nations and then separated into sheep and goats? Are there many humans still left on earth not nationally Israel that will be separated at a later time? And this is just the living, not all the dead of Israel resurrected from all time since Jacob. Is Jesus not sitting on His throne in His Temple in Jerusalem on earth? The one that after this final harvest, Satan will be allowed to sit on and desolate? The one that will be the camp of the saints for 1,000 years?

I am not denying dispensations nor arguing for them. I am saying those who make the loudest arguments against are still defining dispensations, because it is impossible not to.

 

[ewq1938]

22. Jesus returns at the 5th trump or the 7th trump, or both?

Amillennialism sometimes teaches that Jesus is the angel descending from Heaven to the Earth to open the pit in the 5th trump. They also claim that is the same event of the 7th trump which they place in Revelation 20:9. They claim Revelation 9:1 is the same exact event as Revelation 20:1 yet Revelation 9:1 is the 5th trump and Revelation 20:9 is the 7th trump (according to Amillennialism). How can the same exact event be in two different trumps especially when the 6th trump between them is the Great Tribulation?

Does Jesus descend from heaven to open the pit in the 5th trump or the 7th trump?
Does Jesus descend from heaven to open the pit before the tribulation/6th trump or after it has ended?
Is Revelation 9:1 truly the same event as found in Revelation 20:1?
Why are they in different trumps?

The truth is the angel is not Jesus in either passage. The angel opens the pit in the 5th trump and returns to lock satan in the pit in Revelation 20 after the second coming has been completed.

 

[Truth7t7]

The angel opens the pit in the 5th trump and returns to lock satan in the pit in Revelation 20 after the second coming has been completed.

No place in scripture doesn't it teach that humans and this earth survive the Lord's second coming in fire and judgement

This earth will be dissolved by fire at the Lords return, and every living thing in it (The End)

Your dream of a Millennium on this earth after the second coming is found no place in scripture, it's a man made fairy tale

 

[Earburner]

Both of these views are wrong.

The Millennium is after the conclusion of Daniel's 70th week.

The Cross was not the conclusion of Daniel's 70th week.

No one will get the Millennium correct, if they cannot even interpret Daniel's 70 weeks correctly.

This has been covered before. The 70th week was fulfilled by Jesus in His first appearance.
Here is the scripture challenge, whereby most Christians get derailed and begin fabricating speculations, all because of misinterpreting one word and it's application.
Daniel 9[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

This has been covered before. The 70th week was fulfilled by Jesus in His first appearance.
Here is the scripture challenge, whereby most Christians get derailed and begin fabricating speculations, all because of misinterpreting one word and it's application.
Daniel 9[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"No" Jesus Christ Isn't The "He" In Daniel 9:27 Below As You Suggest, He Doesn't Make Abomination Or Desolation

Daniel's (Little Horn)

This "Future" figure will be present on earth to see the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ and (Final Judgement), as this figure will be slain by Jesus Christ and cast into the lake of fire (Future) unfulfilled

"Future" (Second Coming, Final Judgement) Below

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[ewq1938]

No place in scripture doesn't it teach that humans and this earth survive the Lord's second coming in fire and judgement

It is taught in Revelation 19 where the verb RULE is in the future tense proving the nations will be ruled post-Armageddon.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus ruling with a rod of iron, is the Lords destruction of the wicked at his return, as a Potter uses the rod of Iron to destroy his clay vessels Revelation 2:27

There won't be a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man, found no place in scripture

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus ruling with a rod of iron, is the Lords destruction of the wicked at his return

False. The RULE is in the future tense so it takes place AFTER the return. Do you even know how to look up the verb tense? Or do you even care? Just stick to your incorrect doctrine no matter what?

 

[ewq1938]

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19 :: King James Version (KJV)

Revelation 19:15 Interlinear: and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and he doth tread the press of the wine of the wrath and the anger of God the Almighty,


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

 

[ewq1938]

The Sword and the smiting and the treading the winepress of wrath are happening at the Armageddon second coming. The RULE over the nations with a rod of iron is NOT HAPPENING at Armageddon.

Rule:

G4165
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
ποιμαίνω
poimainō
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901



The rule is a peaceful rule where Christ and his saints take care of the nations like a Shepherd takes care of his flock. Obviously that isn't happening at the violent battle of Armageddon. Anyone that tells you Christ is using a rod of iron at Armageddon to kill the nations does not understand the bible. Ignore them.