For those who think Christ is not God.

[Johann]

He got that from me (lol):

And guess where I got it from?:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
J.

 

[Johann]

No one is saying thay. God the Son prayed/talked to God the Father.

Before you get blasted TLHKAJ...it is the Huios/Son of God..
Shalom
J.

 

[APAK]

Paul said Jesus was the seed(singular) of Abraham, right?

Of course, the spiritual seed that is one of the promises given to Abraham, the gateway seed to salvation in faith to immortality.
Gal 3:16, 26, 28-29. We are spiritually clothed in Christ's spirit given from his Father, today.

 

[APAK]

Ignoring is not a good idea but maintaining context is APAK

Our view becomes limited when context is dismissed.....and the context of 'us and our' re God is scattered from Genesis to Revelation.

Cristo's view is limited because the perspective of the broader context is ignored.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Colossians 1:16-17
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Well QT I'm glad you brought up context. This is a valid point and then these questions of his (@Cristo Rei - Cristo's) from scripture should be viewed always from the proper local and macro context. I agree 100%. So when can we start to do this work?

Context for scripture is woefully lacking on this site. Scripture is usually just chucked out en masse without any explanation or context. It's the shotgun effect or its blast, or throwing things up on the wall hoping something will stick. That is what I usually get as a response to many of my posts.

How about starting off with the Garden of Gethsemane scripture when Christ was praying to his Father? What is the local and surrounding context of these passages? Who is the subject, who is the object? Why did Christ weep and became very sad on the heels of his glory he wished and hoped to have, promised to him by his Father? What does it say about Christ? He was human, with a human nature, not a Father God nature, although his Father spoke 'into' him all the time since his birth as with his angels.

 

[marks]

God was manifest in the flesh of Jesus or...

God was manifest INTO(turned into) His own flesh?

Pick one.

The Word became flesh.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
J.

AMEN, BROTHER!

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The Bible's writers have exercised a great deal of care tracing Christ's
biological ancestry to Adam and Eve, and yet there are actually folks out
there who honestly believe they can sweep all that tracing aside by quoting
1Cor 15:45.

• Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word for "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah) which is a
bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to
biological progeny; for example:

• Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny; whereas David's is biological
because it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

So, we must concede that Jesus was Adam's biological progeny unless
someone can prove beyond a hint of sensible doubt that David and Adam
weren't blood.
_

 

[Johann]

AMEN, BROTHER!

Shalom @Qoheleth
J.

 

[Johann]

.
The Bible's writers have exercised a great deal of care tracing Christ's
biological ancestry to Adam and Eve, and yet there are actually folks out
there who honestly believe they can sweep all that tracing aside by quoting
1Cor 15:45.

• Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David
according to the flesh

The Greek word for "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper'-mah) which is a
bit ambiguous because it can refer to spiritual progeny as well as to
biological progeny; for example:

• Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed.

That seed is obviously spiritual progeny; whereas David's is biological
because it's "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.

So, we must concede that Jesus was Adam's biological progeny unless
someone can prove beyond a hint of sensible doubt that David and Adam
weren't blood.
_

Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Would be interesting, as I saw on another thread, to dig a bit deeper into important words, others giving their input, DONE IN LOVE...no one "better" than the other but in the assembly to "grow" however I have seen too many mud slinging, not edifying.
J.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hey Johann:

Your choices are not necessarily the best for your question. By saying a 'mere' man is this meant to connote a normal human being without the influence of his Father, his God? Well if so then that one cannot be right, as he was not just a mere man pulled out from the crown so to speak. He was definitively a human being carrying his Father's spirit. Even Christians, true believers in Christ are not considered 'mere' carnal human beings anymore. They are special, having the spirit of truth within them. Now Yahshua was the/a 'son of man' which was a common expression for any human man, even for you or I. People make a real big deal as if it is means something special.

You choices of sources are rubbish, sourced for the same teachings and mentality of main stream trinitarians - biased against the scripture if it conflicts with their man-made doctrine. How possibly can you get any real truth from it?!

When a source starts out with 'loud' seemingly indisputable blanket statements of this is the truth about something then you can suspect that they are hiding something. Used car sales people act this way.

I think the teaching was sound. Probably about 97% of 2.65+ billion Christians are Trinitariams. So most of us would say your rebuttal is rubbish!

 

[marks]

John 17:5 KJV
5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

John 17:5 KJV
5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Much love!

What do you believe this glory to be?@marks

 

[marks]

What do you believe this glory to be?

Glory. What do you mean?

Glory Jesus shared with the Father before creation.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

Glory. What do you mean?

Glory Jesus shared with the Father before creation.

Much love!

John 17:6-9 KJV
[6] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. [8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. [9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Who’s Jesus talking about here?

 

[marks]

John 17:6-9 KJV
[6] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. [8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. [9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Who’s Jesus talking about here?

?

Do you have something in mind?

Much love!

 

[marks]

John 17:6-9 KJV
[6] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. [8] For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. [9] I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Who’s Jesus talking about here?

Is Jesus Christ God?

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I think the teaching was sound. Probably about 97% of 2.65+ billion Christians are Trinitariams. So most of us would say your rebuttal is rubbish!

Thank you Ronald, I don't bear grudges against APAK...if my sources is rubbish I guess he can show me his resources and the veracity of it.
Anything for peace among the brethren and sisters, not compromising one bit on the Word of the Lord Christ Jesus though.
It is by grace that I can stay online, don't know for how long but my trust is in Christ and Him alone.
Shalom.
J.

 

[APAK]

I think the teaching was sound. Probably about 97% of 2.65+ billion Christians are Trinitariams. So most of us would say your rebuttal is rubbish!

And then I'm sure you can explain your answer as to why YOU think it is rubbish, or maybe you do not need to think as all the nearly other 2.65+billion as you say won't or cannot either. And then how is your statement meaningful to me and not said as a dig or a sly remark ? Well you can now entertain me if you wish and explain to me why this teaching IS NOT rubbish. Can you do this is the real question? I'm all ears and eyes Ron. I have my doubts though because I believe you really do not care about the subject that much as I do.

 

[Waiting on him]

Is Jesus Christ God?

Much love!

If he is indeed, Then would this mean he was speaking to himself in the Scripture You quoted?

 

[APAK]

John 17:5 KJV
5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Much love!

I suspected and planned for this verse to pop out of my post to @quietthinker QT, and here it is...The words you have bolded there beyond the word 'glory,' are they literal or figurative as a local idiom expression? Can you explain it marks?

Thanks in advance.