For those who think Christ is not God.

[Pearl]

I do not truly know what you mean here Johann, unless you want to kickstart another round of I know it and you do not....right on target in what...ignorance of what is really being said by some others?

She, as you, are pretty ignorant of scripture. It is crucial that both of you and others get into scripture with all the tools available and even available on line. It is important to really understand by ones self and not by teachers who tend to lead people astray. As if you listen to teachers that might tell you something like this.... to say, "she'll be right, trust me, don't believe those fringe groups and heretics, we are on the winning team..".lol. And truly, as honest I can be, both of you are really off I'm afraid, you are in the 1st class of bible study and stick stuck in there..it shows in your writings.

Just saying since you asked me a question of people being 'on target.' YOU opened this door, not me Johann.

I could go on and entertain the theme of being 'on target' but I won't...

It would seem we have different views, but until I started to visit online forums I had never heard the things that you believe. The scriptures tell you something completely different to what they tell me.

 

[Johann]

How many spirits do we have in us? Or do both the Father and the Son share the same Spirit?

Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. ​

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

J.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He also said to be as children in malice, but in understanding be as men.

I had to look up malice. Never knew it is connected to the juice from and apple MALIC - Definition from the KJV Dictionary

MA'LIC, a. L.malum, an apple. Pertaining to apples; drawn from the juice of apples; as malic acid.

 

[Waiting on him]

Are you guys saying Jesus impregnated Mary?

 

[Waiting on him]

I hate to look up malice. Never knew it is connected to the juice from and apple MALIC - Definition from the KJV Dictionary

MA'LIC, a. L.malum, an apple. Pertaining to apples; drawn from the juice of apples; as malic acid.

Could possibly say that’s what they gave Jesus on the cross.

 

[Johann]

If so provide your understanding.

It has nothing to do with my understanding F2F, we dare not lean to our own understanding, it is dangerous and the narrow way is hemned in, thlipses, full of obstacles.
What I DO see, is a lot of philosophizing re the Scriptures, not believing what stands written, Perfect Tense, and a whole lotta worldly terminologies foreign to scripture.
J.

 

[APAK]

Cristo...these questions are from a restricted human rational. If we were to rely on that rational for our answers, Mary falling pregnant by the spirit would fall into the category of fantasy/ delusion.

God is invisible by Jesus' own testimony and whats more, he tells us that no man has seen the Father save himself.......so this is my deduction from the available information.....Jesus is the human face/person of God.

Did Adam walk and talk with God?....I think so.....it was also Jesus who John the apostle says created all things.
What is also interesting is that Abraham also saw the human face/person of God.....it must have been who we today know as Jesus.

We need to get over the inane questions we ask to validate our poor understanding and restricted view of God.......an understanding that neither John the Baptist or Jesus shared, otherwise they would never have made statements along the lines of the stones crying out given certain circumstances or them turning into children of Abraham.

QT: So are we to ignore the obvious explicit scripture that @Cristo Rei just cited in his last few posts? I think not! Why don't you address them, each one of them? Don't they need to be answered?

If possibly you think it is not important then and to just ignore them, by introducing another sidebar discussion of the 'limited human view of God' and the 'face of God' that says nothing about its relevancy to who is Christ and God, his and our Father without now expounding on this new area in scripture and connecting it with Cristo's questions.

They, all this scripture, must all knit/mesh together without force in harmony...

And I do not buy into your own idea that Cristo's questions are from ONLY a restricted limited human view and thus should not be addressed via inference. If you did not mean this at all, then an apology is given ahead of time. What about the spirit of truth living in a true believer? You present your post for me as a secular view, imo.

And John never said that Jesus created "'all' things" QT. For another discussion if you want to participate.

 

[Johann]

She, as you, are pretty ignorant of scripture.

Glad you've mention my ignorance APAK, I would prefer to be the least since pride, the ego eimi, is still in most of us, I am no learned scholar but what I DO know I'll gladly share.
You guys are giants friend but we are all in this race.
The Holy Spirit our Helper and Christ Jesus our Friend and we cry "Abba" Father, our Father.
J.

 

[Johann]

After 25 years I still distinctly remember how much scripture came to life after accepting the Sabbath.

Amazing, every day is my Sabbath.
J.

 

[Waiting on him]

Glad you've mention my ignorance APAK, I would prefer to be the least since pride, the ego eimi, is still in most of us, I am no learned scholar but what I DO know I'll gladly share.
You guys are giants friend but we are all in this race.
The Holy Spirit our Helper and Christ Jesus our Friend and we cry "Abba" Father, our Father.
J.

How can one be the least, yet demanding his own personal absolution?

 

[Truther]

How familiar are you with Logical Fallacies? Nothing fancy to knowing what they are, they just help to identify parts of a debate that don't actually mean anything.

This is of course a complex question. And I can equally ask you, why are you avoiding the meaning the Scriptures?

How useful, how accurate, is that? Not at all, really.

Much love!

Who creates the meanings?

Strongs? Thayer? Dake etc?

You think anyone can redefine words that the Bible doesn't include, huh?

 

[Truther]

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

@Truther

Will you add to this? Will you take away from this? Will you accept this? Or deny it?

Much love!

God was manifest in the flesh of Jesus or...

God was manifest INTO(turned into) His own flesh?

Pick one.

 

[Waiting on him]

Who creates the meanings?

Strongs? Thayer? Dake etc?

You think anyone can redefine words that the Bible doesn't include, huh?

I would think only the author.

 

[Truther]

Do not agree with your very last statement. Christ could never be a direct human seed or human DNA of Abraham, not happening. Christ was given the created physical DNA from God's spirit as was the first Adam. They never had the inclination to sin even when they grew up in their teens. And it therefore took a lot for Adam to sin beyond being just tempted.....

Paul said Jesus was the seed(singular) of Abraham, right?

 

[Truther]

I thought the thread was "Is Christ Jesus God?"

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
OJB

Isa 55:11 So shall My Davar (the Word of Hashem) be that goeth forth out of My mouth; He shall not return unto Me reikam (empty, void) but He [the Davar Hashem, see Yn 1:1,14] shall do that which I please, and He [the Davar Hashem] shall accomplish the purpose whereto I sent Him.


Forget the "commentary", read the scriptures, and believe what you read
J.

Egad!

 

[quietthinker]

QT: So are we to ignore the obvious explicit scripture that @Cristo Rei just cited in his last few posts? I think not! Why don't you address them, each one of them? Don't they need to be answered?

Ignoring is not a good idea but maintaining context is APAK

If possibly you think it is not important then and to just ignore them, by introducing another sidebar discussion of the 'limited human view of God' and the 'face of God' that says nothing about its relevancy to who is Christ and God, his and our Father without now expounding on this new area in scripture and connecting it with Cristo's questions.

Our view becomes limited when context is dismissed.....and the context of 'us and our' re God is scattered from Genesis to Revelation.

And I do not buy into your own idea that Cristo's questions are from ONLY a restricted limited human view and thus should not be addressed via inference. If you did not mean this at all, then an apology is given ahead of time. What about the spirit of truth living in a true believer? You present your post for me as a secular view, imo.

Cristo's view is limited because the perspective of the broader context is ignored.

And John never said that Jesus created "'all' things" QT. For another discussion if you want to participate.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Colossians 1:16-17
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[Truther]

You are lazy, truther, why don't you ask Quora and Got questions questions?
J

Not lazy, but sola scripture.

 

[Truther]

Look up the words "was made"
J.

In an old dictionary.

Okay.

 

[Truther]

On the contrary, I find a lot of "redefinition's" that is foreign to my ears from you.
J.

I am not the one who is posting "Greek" redefinitions.

 

[Truther]

How do you get there from here, though:
(Just askin' )

Luke 1:34 KJV: Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luke 1:35 KJV: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.​

Common sense and the actual scripture definitions.

"Begotten son of God" has sexual connotations.

Not the physical acts of sex, but the sexual organs fertilized and conceived.