Light and Darkness

[Prentis]

Hi all! :)

I thought I would start a study on light and darkness. I'm not your typical bible study guy, but I'm going to try and study it in orderly manner all the while allowing God to open things up!

So I'll do it bit by bit, as it's easier to follow... And invite anyone interested to join and to provide what 'the joint supplies', for the edification of the body.

 

[Prentis]

I want to focus on what it means to be in the light or to be in the darkness today, according to the revelation of Christ. The Bible also speaks of the children of light and the children of darkness. I want to look into who it is talking about. Let's start with this scripture:


Mat 4:12
Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

This identifies a few things... And a few rabbit trails. :)

1. It identifies that the prophecy of old is being fulfilled, as Jesus, the light of the world, is revealed to the Gentiles

2. It identifies the people who walk in the darkness. We will look into this also. Interestingly, the Gentiles 'walk' in the darkness.

There are two types of people then who the Lord says are in the darkness or walk in the darkness. (1) There are the Gentiles who walked in darkness until Christ was revealed to them, and (2) there are the elite men of Judaism, who are the children of darkness, or children of the devil.

 

[Insight]

I want to focus on what it means to be in the light or to be in the darkness today, according to the revelation of Christ. The Bible also speaks of the children of light and the children of darkness. I want to look into who it is talking about. Let's start with this scripture:


Mat 4:12
Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

This identifies a few things... And a few rabbit trails. :)

1. It identifies that the prophecy of old is being fulfilled, as Jesus, the light of the world, is revealed to the Gentiles

2. It identifies the people who walk in the darkness. We will look into this also. Interestingly, the Gentiles 'walk' in the darkness.

There are two types of people then who the Lord says are in the darkness or walk in the darkness. (1) There are the Gentiles who walked in darkness until Christ was revealed to them, and (2) there are the elite men of Judaism, who are the children of darkness, or children of the devil.

Prentis

It may be advisable to start your study in the beginning. The pinciple of God seperating light from darkness is a key verse and will help you in gaining a thorough understanding.

Gen 1:3,4

Insight

 

[rockytopva]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quQSe2YDeQw

 

[Prentis]

Thanks Insight. :)

Indeed it is a good point. I'm just skipping right to the NT, and the saints, and when the OT applies, Ill go back and fetch it!

Will continue the study... Tomorrow, busy today

Blessings

 

[veteran]

You've got a long road ahead of you Prentis, and I'm not sure you are prepared for it...

Jude 1:3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

Matt 13:25-26
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
(KJV)

Gal 2:4
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
(KJV)

Eph 4:14
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
(KJV)

2 Pet 2:1-9
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord That bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
(KJV)

One of the greatest naive beliefs among many in Christ's Church today is not understanding that God from the beginning of this world 'ordained' certain ones upon this earth to be against Christ. It is thought those certain enemies of Christ that were ordained are simply in ignorance of what they do and who they follow, and that once The Gospel is preached to them they naturally will want to turn to our Lord Jesus Christ. Christ's Salvation is open to them too of course, IF they will turn to Him. But like God's Word declares, they were "ordained" to that condemnation. They're here to work the negative side of God's Plan. And we as Christ's servants are to recognize that Biblical fact, and be aware when they try to creep into among Christ's sheep as wolves in sheep's clothing. Pretty obvious today with all the distorted un-Biblical traditions of men that many in Christ's Body have not paid attention to that.

 

[ajdiamond]

Prentis

It may be advisable to start your study in the beginning. The pinciple of God seperating light from darkness is a key verse and will help you in gaining a thorough understanding.

Gen 1:3,4

Insight

Agreed, start at the beginning. (Not the beginning of the book, but start at the Source)

God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1John 1:5

 

[rockytopva]

Prentis...

Cosmonauts aboard the Salyut 7 spacecraft spotted seven angels as big as jet airliners. Their description...

The Cosmonauts said "They were glowing," they explained. "We were truly overwhelmed. There was a great orange light, and through it, we could see the figures of seven angels. They were smiling as though they shared a glorious secret..."

The glorious secret is what the Father of Lights has prepared for we who love him! Considering the size of the universe I would say God the Father has big plans for we who make it in!

 

[Prentis]

Amen brother! God is light. Here we go.

It is clear according to the word of the Lord and the history of his people that darkness, the force of evil, permeates all beliefs and all religion. Yes, that includes God's people. How can we deny this? The Lord's people, Israel, rebelled in the desert, killed the prophets, and killed Jesus. It is no different today, the revelation of Christ is an offense to the Jew and the Greek, the 'Christian' and the (everything else!).

1 John 2:9
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.

Yes, we Christians, are indeed often in darkness. And we must beware if indeed, what we consider to be light, is darkness.

So now we have seen what darkness does. Let's see what darkness is. The powers of darkness are the powers of the enemy.
They include:

1. Lying, a perversion of the truth
2. Destroying, the power of death
3. Power on this earth, hierarchy according to the prince of this world (think of Jesus being tempted by the devil in the desert)
4. Dividing, denominations and all these, dividing not between revelation and anti-revelation, but between one opinion and another
5. Accusing, the devil is that accuser and wishes to put Christ to shame
6. Money, Mammon, working according to carnal needs and means, instead of faith, walking by sight and not by faith

When this is in the 'church', there has indeed been a perversion.

So we see that both believers and non-believers can walk in darkness. Now let's see what light is :)

1 John 2:10
[sup]7[/sup] Brethren,[sup][a][/sup] I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.[sup][b][/sup] [sup]8[/sup] Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
[sup]9[/sup] He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. [sup]10[/sup] He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

Indeed. The light is revealed in love. Only this light and this love are not love like the world. The love of Christ is also the cross of Christ. Christ was not a scapegoat for us, but an example to us. The way he walked, we must walk also. The commandment is ultimately love. God is love, but this love is not the same as the world.

If we love God, we must love his ways and cling to him. The powers of darkness are directly opposed to the power and life of Christ, the light, and unless we lay of all those powers of darkness, which do breed hatred, we are not walking in the light.

 

[Prentis]

The light creates offense

John 3:20
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

This is true for all. The revelation and truth of Christ is a scandal for all. His light points to his cross. To choose life is to choose to be crucified with Christ and to be crucified to this world.

So light exposes darkness, causing then the persecution and hatred. This will come from both the unbeliever and the Christian, but even more the Christian because his religion is being destroyed. Understand that I do not speak of all Christians, but the light indeed sets one Christian against another, as it set one Jew against another in the time of Christ. The Pharisees stoned Stephen, as the Spirit was shining through him, because it wasnt' according to what they believed.

 

[veteran]

Amen brother! God is light. Here we go.

It is clear according to the word of the Lord and the history of his people that darkness, the force of evil, permeates all beliefs and all religion. Yes, that includes God's people. How can we deny this? The Lord's people, Israel, rebelled in the desert, killed the prophets, and killed Jesus. It is no different today, the revelation of Christ is an offense to the Jew and the Greek, the 'Christian' and the (everything else!).

All Israel was guilty of killing our Lord Jesus? Come on now Prentis. You ought to know better than that.

What is that idea of "the revelation of Christ is an offense to the Jew and the Greek, the 'Christian' and the (everything else!)" business? Who is that really coming from? Did your preacher teach that idea to you, or did you come up with that all by yourself?


1 Pet 2:7-10
7 Unto you therefore which believe He is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him Who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
(KJV)

How in the world can you try to apply that to a Christian believer?!? Did Peter make a mistake in contrasting those who believe on Christ with those who stumble because they were appointed to disobedience?

You've obviously been listening to doctrines of men, even ideas of the "crept in unawares" who hate those of us who have believed on Christ Jesus.

1 John 2:9
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.

Yes, we Christians, are indeed often in darkness. And we must beware if indeed, what we consider to be light, is darkness.

So now we have seen what darkness does. Let's see what darkness is. The powers of darkness are the powers of the enemy.
They include:

1. Lying, a perversion of the truth
2. Destroying, the power of death
3. Power on this earth, hierarchy according to the prince of this world (think of Jesus being tempted by the devil in the desert)
4. Dividing, denominations and all these, dividing not between revelation and anti-revelation, but between one opinion and another
5. Accusing, the devil is that accuser and wishes to put Christ to shame
6. Money, Mammon, working according to carnal needs and means, instead of faith, walking by sight and not by faith

When this is in the 'church', there has indeed been a perversion.

What exactly is that idea of "dividing not between revelation and anti-revelatin, but between one opinion and another"? You mean if there are others here which DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU, then that's from the devil causing division?!? What about those who stand in Christ Jesus to rebuke Christian brethren that fall away, as per Paul's command? Is rebuke in Christ a thing of darkness of the devil too?

All you've done is quote one single verse of those who hate their brother being in darkness, and then making up a list which you failed to give Scripture support to. And I'm not disagreeing with everything on your list, except your No.4 part in bold, which appears to suggest some other unrelated personal matter.

 

[Prentis]

To walk in the light, then cannot be done by having certain beliefs, or ascribing to a set of religious organizations set up by men.

To walk in the light rather, requires to take the cross. To do this, one must expose the deeds of darkness. This is what the light does, it exposes. Stephen exposed the darkness of the Pharisees, which they thought was light.

Veteran, I understand what you are telling me about opinions.

I agree, we all have opinions as we are human. What I am talking about is not opinions about cars, houses, etc... But opinions about the revelation of Christ. If we take the words of Christ, and use our own understanding, philosophy, or whatever we may use, to explain them, we will go against the revelation of Christ.

The cross and ressurection life

The cross requires us to give up on all the powers of this world. Fame, money, people-pleasing, all the things that can accomplish human purposes. We must die to this a be crucified to this word. Why? That we may share in the life of Christ, the life of ressurection. In other words, what comes after crucifixion.

The powers of this world is what we war with. To do so, we must have the power of God. We must then put off the powers of this world, and wait till we are 'endued with power from on high'. The life that is in Christ (the light of the world) is what allows us to shine light in the darkness.

 

[veteran]

To walk in the light, then cannot be done by having certain beliefs, or ascribing to a set of religious organizations set up by men.

If you mean commandments of men like our Jesus and His Apostles mentioned, then I definitely agree with that. God's Word is the Measure of all things.

To walk in the light rather, requires to take the cross. To do this, one must expose the deeds of darkness. This is what the light does, it exposes. Stephen exposed the darkness of the Pharisees, which they thought was light.

John the Baptist also exposed the false ones among the Pharisees, as our Lord Jesus did too. But what about Nicodemus, and Gamaliel which was Paul's Hebrew teacher?

Does Gamaliel sound like one of those Pharisees that wanted to kill our Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul?

Acts 5:34-39
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
(KJV)

Nicodemus, a Pharisee, brought spices for Christ's burial (John 19); and he was just in telling the other Pharisees not to judge a man before he is heard (John 7).

Do you think they were of the group within the Pharisees that wanted to kill our Lord Jesus? If not, then what was the difference between those groups among the Pharisees?

 

[Prentis]

When I talk about a group, I am talking in general. Jesus himself was a Jew. There are groups that form together. Certainly, some are different, but they apply to the exception and no the rule. Which is why I make it general when talking about a group.

I hope this helps... Lord bless you, veteran :)

 

[veteran]

To walk in the light, then cannot be done by having certain beliefs, or ascribing to a set of religious organizations set up by men.

To walk in the light rather, requires to take the cross. To do this, one must expose the deeds of darkness. This is what the light does, it exposes. Stephen exposed the darkness of the Pharisees, which they thought was light.

Veteran, I understand what you are telling me about opinions.

I agree, we all have opinions as we are human. What I am talking about is not opinions about cars, houses, etc... But opinions about the revelation of Christ. If we take the words of Christ, and use our own understanding, philosophy, or whatever we may use, to explain them, we will go against the revelation of Christ.

I realize what you say, but I do not agree with all that, nor does God's Word as written. It's because teaching by The Holy Spirit is first required to 'understand' when reading God's Word, and reading His Word IS about understanding It so as to preach It so others can hear and believe (Rom.10:14). Can't get around that. This is why Rev.1 declares those blessed that read and 'heed' the Book of Revelation prophecy. God's Word is His Letter to us. We are supposed to read It, and that with understanding. There is no other way. Not by wishful thinking, not by meditation, not by books by men.

The cross and ressurection life

The cross requires us to give up on all the powers of this world. Fame, money, people-pleasing, all the things that can accomplish human purposes. We must die to this a be crucified to this word. Why? That we may share in the life of Christ, the life of ressurection. In other words, what comes after crucifixion.

You're preaching asceticism. Our Lord Jesus did not call all His many-membered body to separate themselves literally from the world and become monks in a convent. But some that feel called to that go after that lifestyle. I mean, where would the western Christian nations and The Gospel have been if we were all called to become ascetics?

The powers of this world is what we war with. To do so, we must have the power of God. We must then put off the powers of this world, and wait till we are 'endued with power from on high'. The life that is in Christ (the light of the world) is what allows us to shine light in the darkness.

Yes, but it's mostly against the powers of spiritual darkness, forces that we cannot readily see, per Paul in Eph.6. Do you know what Apostle Paul did when he needed money, and wasn't busy in his ministry? He was a tent maker by trade. We've all got... to do our own work in this world. The LORD gives us various gifts to be able to do that. Christ's Reality is not about following the way of the mystic in mysticism.

When I talk about a group, I am talking in general. Jesus himself was a Jew. There are groups that form together. Certainly, some are different, but they apply to the exception and no the rule. Which is why I make it general when talking about a group.

I hope this helps... Lord bless you, veteran :)

Yep, just wanted to make sure you knew the difference. Lord bless you too.

 

[Insight]

Agreed, start at the beginning. (Not the beginning of the book, but start at the Source) God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1John 1:5

Great point aj,

If one cannot understand the natural how will they understand the spiritual? 1 Cor 15:46

 

[ajdiamond]

Great point aj,

If one cannot understand the natural how will they understand the spiritual? 1 Cor 15:46

Exactly. :) For example, I went outside just now and it's a clear sunny day. The sun's light is everywhere. Where is darkness? The only darkness are shadows on the earth where an object like a shed, a tree, a chair, blocks the sun from shining directly on the earth.

The light shines, in us. So, what do we possess that stands between the light and the earth, casting shadows....

So light exposes darkness....

Oh really? How so? ^_^

I go into a dark room and turn on the light, how does that expose (laid open to view, unconcealed) darkness? The darkness is gone, it wasn't "exposed", it can't be viewed anymore. h34r:

 

[rockytopva]

Exactly. :) For example, I went outside just now and it's a clear sunny day. The sun's light is everywhere. Where is darkness? The only darkness are shadows on the earth where an object like a shed, a tree, a chair, blocks the sun from shining directly on the earth.

The light shines, in us. So, what do we possess that stands between the light and the earth, casting shadows....



Oh really? How so? ^_^

I go into a dark room and turn on the light, how does that expose (laid open to view, unconcealed) darkness? The darkness is gone, it wasn't "exposed", it can't be viewed anymore. h34r:

The light is in three forms...

Material - M = E / c2... Everything around you is stored light and energy
Spiritual There is a spiritual E / c2
Intelligence There is an intellectual E / c2

So as darkness is opposite of light...

Nothing - Absolute Zero / darkness
Spiritual - Hatred, coldness, fear, depression, sorrow... etc.
Foolishness - Well... We see enough of that


When someone is filled with the spiritual light their life will emit spiritual light waves that will expose the darkness is others heart. People will see those in spiritual light and consider the darkness in the their own hearts.

 

[ajdiamond]

So as darkness is opposite of light...

That is something I've been pondering since I opened this thread this morning. Is darkness the opposite of light? On the surface, of course, it seems so. It is the absence of light, but is it the opposite? We know of opposites, or dualities, such as tall/short, big/small, happy/unhappy, good/bad, wet/dry. We also know God is one. In a reality filled with dualites, God is nondual. And so if God is Light, how can light have an opposite?

 

[Prentis]

You're preaching asceticism. Our Lord Jesus did not call all His many-membered body to separate themselves literally from the world and become monks in a convent. But some that feel called to that go after that lifestyle. I mean, where would the western Christian nations and The Gospel have been if we were all called to become ascetics?

Ah, I agree! And yes we are in the world. We have to make a living etc etc.

What I am talking about is not coming out of the world, but simply not being of it. We must not promote the Gospel of Christ using worldly means. Did Peter use money or politics to convey the message of Christ? Did Paul? We are to walk by the power of God. Why did the disciples have to wait in Jerusalem until they received power from on high? Because they were not to use any powers of this world, but the power of God. They were powerless until God empowered them. Sadly, that is not often the reality of mainstream Christianity. :)

Oh really? How so? ^_^

I go into a dark room and turn on the light, how does that expose (laid open to view, unconcealed) darkness? The darkness is gone, it wasn't "exposed", it can't be viewed anymore. h34r:

Again, you're trying to understand with natural senses. Don't you know that the natural senses don't understand the things of God? Unless we understand things in the physical first we can't understand physical things? The way of God is not by nature, as a matter of fact, theose who use natural understanding cannot see the things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So much for being discerned by understanding the natural first, I guess ;)

What I am saying is this; light exposes deeds that are done in the darkness, the deeds of darkness. When Christ comes he shines a light, and exposes what we do in darkness, thus the children of darkness hate him, because their deeds are evil.