What is so wrong with Calvinism ?

[Lambano]

i am a calvinist, and will remain a calvinist. Why? It convicts me more than any other doctrine for sure, and that is a good thing.

But does this doctrine inspire you to love Christ?

 

[Lambano]

it inspires me to understand that i am a sinner and the purpose of Jesus as a Saviour and the reason for His atonement.

But does it tell you that His atonement is for YOU?

But knowest thou, Lifelong Sinner, that Christ died for THY sins?

 

[reformed1689]

But does this doctrine inspire you to love Christ?

Yes

 

[reformed1689]

But knowest thou, Lifelong Sinner, that Christ died for THY sins?

It does not lie and say he died for those who would not believe.

 

[Lambano]

It does not lie and say he died for those who would not believe.

What (or whom) does he have to believe in?

And why should he believe?

 

[reformed1689]

What (or whom) does he have to believe in?

And why should he believe?

Those whom Christ died for will always place their trust in him and his death, burial, and resurrection and make him Lord. This seals their salvation. They have already been chosen, it will always happen.

Those who were not chosen, they will never believe, Christ did not die for their sin.

 

[BarneyFife]

thats worked for your cult so well so far, huh.

I think I have been unduly harsh with you, and for that I am sorry, L_S. It was inexcusable. I hope you can forgive me.

 

[PinSeeker]

Jesus didn’t mention the atonement in the passage you quoted.

Absolutely right. But you did. You said the passages you quoted were "about unlimited atonement/salvation." So the central focus ~ again, yours ~ was on the supposed unlimited-ness and universal-ness of atonement/salvation. The offer of the Gospel and the sufficiency of Christ's atonement to cover all is absolutely true, and in that sense, the atonement is unlimited and universal. But it is given to ~ efficacious for ~ only some/many, and in that sense, it is limited. As you must surely know, Jesus did say the following (emphasis added):

"All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22)​

"The works that I do in My Father’s name bear witness about Me, but you do not believe because you are not among My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." (John 10:25-30)​

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." (John 15:16)​

Your are conflating and equivocating.

Nope. That's all you. Sufficiency and efficacy are two very different things.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

I said its a Cult.
See, you can always spot the cults, by how they deny the Grace of God as being eternally established, by GOD Through Christ, and not by them.

A cult member will always try to teach that you can "lose your salvation".
Its their core belief, and theological deception.

Also, a Cult or a Cultist always refers to themselves as their Cult.

"im a mormon"
"im a JW"
"im a Catholic"
"im a Calvinist"
"im a Pagan"

Well, a Christian defines themselves as being a "CHRISTian".

Reader, do you follow me?
Are you SEEING it?

You are conflating words here to make a false associational bias.
"I'm a Baptist"
"I'm a Jew"
"I'm a Lutheran"
"I'm a Presbyterian"
"I'm a communist"
"I'm a globalist"
etc...

 

[ChristisGod]

Absolutely right. But you did. You said the passages you quoted were "about unlimited atonement/salvation." So the central focus ~ again, yours ~ was on the supposed unlimited-ness and universal-ness of atonement/salvation. The offer of the Gospel and the sufficiency of Christ's atonement to cover all is absolutely true, and in that sense, the atonement is unlimited and universal. But it is given to ~ efficacious for ~ only some/many, and in that sense, it is limited. As you must surely know, Jesus did say the following (emphasis added):

"All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22)​

"The works that I do in My Father’s name bear witness about Me, but you do not believe because you are not among My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." (John 10:25-30)​

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." (John 15:16)​

Nope. That's all you. Sufficiency and efficacy are two very different things.

Grace and peace to you.

You are still conflating the atonement with the call/election. Two different topics/doctrines.

 

[PinSeeker]

You are still conflating the atonement with the call/election. Two different topics/doctrines.

And just how do you think I'm doing that? Yes, those are two very different things. Wow. Yes, how am I doing that, Christophany? This should be... interesting. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Lambano]

But does it tell you that His atonement is for YOU?

But knowest thou, Lifelong Sinner, that Christ died for THY sins?

So what's missing from your doctrine is the Gospel. The Gospel for you. And doctrine without the Gospel is impotent.

15 Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, 2 by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

3 For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, ... (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

@Lifelong_sinner, Paul is preaching the Gospel to you now, you know. And I'm praying that you will believe him. And trust Christ.

 

[BarneyFife]

It does not lie and say he died for those who would not believe.

Would not or could not?

 

[BarneyFife]

Sufficiency and efficacy are two very different things.

 

[PinSeeker]

The meritorious value of the atonement is sufficient to cover the sins of all people, and certainly, anyone who puts their trust in Jesus Christ will receive the full measure of the benefits of that atonement. However, while the atonement is sufficient for all, it is only efficient for some. That is, not everyone actually receives the full benefits wrought by Christ’s saving work on the cross; namely, those who do not believe. Which brings us back to what Christ Himself said, as I cited a few posts ago:

"All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matthew 11:27; Luke 10:22)

"The works that I do in My Father’s name bear witness about Me, but you do not believe because you are not among My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." (John 10:25-30)

"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you." (John 15:16)

Grace and peace to all.

 

[reformed1689]

Would not or could not?

Both

 

[PinSeeker]

Well, 'both' in a certain sense, yes. But I would be much more apt to say 'would not' rather than 'could not.' Experientially speaking (from our perspective), people can believe anything. It certainly doesn't take extensive perusal of this forum to see that... :)

Grace and peace to all.

 

[PinSeeker]

"...when any one separates faith from love, it is the same as though he attempted to take away heat from the sun."

That is such a magnificent quote.

Grace and peace to all.

 

[BarneyFife]

Both

Let's try that again:

'Didn't want to' or 'didn't have a choice in the matter?'

Please don't dodge.

 

[reformed1689]

Let's try that again:

'Didn't want to' or 'didn't have a choice in the matter?'

Please don't dodge.

Both