Who is the Queen of Heaven.

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stephen64

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believers are not Christians
But only neophyte catechumens

faith and baptism are required to be a born again Christian
Back to Cornelius and his household. So you believe those who are not born again of the Spirit can receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues.
 

theefaith

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[QUOTE="Truther,

Sola scriptura.[/QUOTE]

from the Bible alone please tell me what is the second commandment?
 

Jim B

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“Bible alone” is a condemned heresy and only causes confusion

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Not the Bible or the Bible and the teaching authority of Christ in His church founded on Peter and his successors! Matt 16:18-19

Who is the arbiter of truth!

You can decide.
You can decide what is true.
You can decide what is truth.
You can decide right and wrong.

Not one of these are found in scripture!

Found in scripture!
Taught is found 79 times
Instructed is found 19
Instruction is found 33


Jn 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

Matt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Don't you have one single thing new to say? All you're doing over and over and over is parroting RCC dogma.

believers are not Christians
But only neophyte catechumens

faith and baptism are required to be a born again Christian
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 8:36-38

btw how did the eunuch know about baptism? Philip preached faith alone???????????

John 3:16-18, " For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

Romans 10:8-10, "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach), because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation."

I believe what the Bible clearly says, not RCC propaganda. => Everyone who believes and confesses Jesus <= will be saved. Nothing more is required. That's what the Bible clearly says. Do you not believe God's Holy Word???
 

user

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Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Is that why your church MURDERED multitudes of Christians during the inquisitions.
You burned them at the stake, feed them to lions, tortured on racks. And in some cases, put them back into their prison cells to heal a few months so to do the torture a second time.

And guess what, you are about to do it all over AGAIN during the final 3 1/2 yr Tribulation.
 
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Jim B

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theefaith wrote, "Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!" For once we agree!!!

The one true church is the body of Christ and its teaching must agree with the Bible 100%.

a) The Catholic denomination is not (and never has been) the "one true church". The word "Catholic" doesn't appear one single time in the entire Bible!

b) The teaching must agree totally with the Bible. The Catholic denomination has so much extra-Scriptural teaching (and rituals) that it's a wonder that they even include the Bible at all. Sola scriptura!

Finally, what kind of "teaching" is it to depict Jesus as dead on the cross? He has risen and is in heaven at the right hand of God. It is extreme blasphemy to depict Him otherwise!
 

theefaith

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Don't you have one single thing new to say? All you're doing over and over and over is parroting RCC dogma.



John 3:16-18, " For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

Romans 10:8-10, "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach), because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation."

I believe what the Bible clearly says, not RCC propaganda. => Everyone who believes and confesses Jesus <= will be saved. Nothing more is required. That's what the Bible clearly says. Do you not believe God's Holy Word???

then believe in his words in Mk 16:16
 

theefaith

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Don't you have one single thing new to say? All you're doing over and over and over is parroting RCC dogma.



John 3:16-18, " For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

Romans 10:8-10, "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we preach), because if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation."

I believe what the Bible clearly says, not RCC propaganda. => Everyone who believes and confesses Jesus <= will be saved. Nothing more is required. That's what the Bible clearly says. Do you not believe God's Holy Word???

there is no new doctrine
 

theefaith

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Is that why your church MURDERED multitudes of Christians during the inquisitions.
You burned them at the stake, feed them to lions, tortured on racks. And in some cases, put them back into their prison cells to heal a few months so to do the torture a second time.

And guess what, you are about to do it all over AGAIN during the final 3 1/2 yr Tribulation.

thee faith said

heretics you mean!
Southern France Christians really they were Manichaean dualists sects full of errors!
Truth matters!
The church has a duty to defend the truth and condemn errors!
Heresy is treason against God and treason is punishable by death, but that’s the states duty!
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Click to expand...

breaklite said
Let everyone read this post above. Take careful note. Sadly, this is the heart and soul of catholicism. The core belief that
A. She has the authority and power to declare to the world that 'truth' can only be determined by her, and none else.
B. That anyone, in any state, must adhere to that 'truth'..
C. Not believing or behaving according to that 'truth' is punishable by death, to be carried out by the state government at the behest of the Catholic Church, which I'm effect makes the Catholic Church, at least in her own eyes and those who submit to her, the world's governing authority.
D. The only true governing authority over all mankind is Christ. What the Catholic Church has done through the above core dogma she holds, is to replace Christ, stand in His stead, rule in His place, promote their own head, the Pope, as the sole power on earth to determine salvational truth, and their own system as three only way to salvational, which is pure Antichrist, which the reformers sought to expose at the peril of their lives.
E. Upon knowing this, how can protestants today declare so numbly and carelessly that the reformation was a mistake, and that it's finished???
 

Truther

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“Bible alone” is a condemned heresy and only causes confusion

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Not the Bible or the Bible and the teaching authority of Christ in His church founded on Peter and his successors! Matt 16:18-19

Who is the arbiter of truth!

You can decide.
You can decide what is true.
You can decide what is truth.
You can decide right and wrong.

Not one of these are found in scripture!

Found in scripture!
Taught is found 79 times
Instructed is found 19
Instruction is found 33


Jn 14:6 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

Matt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

1 Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
The RCC condemned Luther and sola scriptura.

The RCC is not the church.

LOL
 

theefaith

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My response

well said!
All except the part about the anti-Christ and his reformers

the church is Christ kingdom!
Christ is king!
He appointed Peter and the apostles to govern and administer his kingdom until He returns
All authority yes!
It’s a kingdom not a democracy
A covenant not a Bible study
Matt 16:18-19 18:18 absolute power and authority to bind and loose having the keys of jurisdictional authority
Matt 28:18 all authority
The church has absolute authority to rule the whole world!

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1

One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4: 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Holy mother church)
 

theefaith

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Is that why your church MURDERED multitudes of Christians during the inquisitions.
You burned them at the stake, feed them to lions, tortured on racks. And in some cases, put them back into their prison cells to heal a few months so to do the torture a second time.

And guess what, you are about to do it all over AGAIN during the final 3 1/2 yr Tribulation.

execution of justice is not murder

heresy is treason against God and treason is punishable by the state
With death
 

Truther

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from the Bible alone please tell what are the things Christ commanded the apostles to make the people obey in Matt 28:20?
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...


...not the RCC.
 
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user

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then believe in his words in Mk 16:16


Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

But YOU do NOT "believe" .

You have REMOVED Jesus NAME from baptism and replaced it with a generic "SON"
Is the name of your son = son?

Further, you replaced baptism itself, which is immersion / burial .... and replaced it with "sprinkling"

Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Therefor you do not have the name nor the burial with him. You have denied him.
 
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Jim B

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execution of justice is not murder

heresy is treason against God and treason is punishable by the state
With death

God said "thou shalt not kill". Period!

Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself", the opposite of killing.

So treason is punishable by the state. What does that have to do with the church? Where -- anywhere -- does it say that the Roman Catholic denomination has the right to kill those who disagree with its (false) doctrine?????
 

theefaith

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“Bible alone”

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?


The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!


The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16


Scripture challenge!

Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?

1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.

2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.

3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20

4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?



Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!


Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.

Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)

Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.

WHEN???

When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?

When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?

When it was taught by the apostles?

When it was Written down decades latter?

When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?

When did it become the inspired word of God?

If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!

If you believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone is the only authority” then you must reject the authority of Christ and His apostles!

It is an error to believe that the office or authority of the apostles ended with the apostle John and public revelation, revelation was complete with the apostle John but the teaching authority or office of the apostles must continue till the return of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) unto the end of the world.

Tongues of fire at Pentecost represent the light of divine Truth and the fire of divine Love!

The apostles possessed the Authority of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in their persons! Acts 1:8 2 Jn 1:12










Questions about the doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is our only authority”?

How can we know what is scripture?

How can we know what is not scripture?

How can we safeguard and protect scripture from errors?

Who has authority to teach scripture without error?

Where does scripture say: “the Bible alone”?

Why does scripture support tradition? The teaching authority of the apostles?

Who has authority to Authentically interpret scripture?

Where does it say the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”?

Why does scripture teach the authority of Christ in His church in the persons of the apostles?
AKA The Apostolic Tradition (teaching)











The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone” our of your Bible!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

The Bible alone is based on spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement, and personal interpretation, and not truth revealed by God in Christ without error, thru the teaching authority of the apostles!


Spiritual Fathers!


Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.










Where does the Bible say there is any authority to write scripture?

The word of God is not limited to scripture!


Christ is supreme!
Christ possesses all authority!

Scripture is not supreme, alone, or sufficient!

Christ and His church He founded on Peter, the apostles, and their successors are one!

Christ shares His teaching authority with His apostles!

The church must teach the truth!

Only Christ has authority to found a church, only Christ builds His one true church!

The apostles have the authority of Christ over all the church and all the kingdoms of the world!

Revealed by scripture? No

Luke 2:26
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness.

Ephesians 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit

John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Romans 16:26


Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The church is the pillar and ground of truth! 1 Tim 3:15
 

theefaith

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20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...


...not the RCC.

Who is the arbiter of truth!

You can decide.
You can decide what is true.
You can decide what is truth.
You can decide right and wrong.

Not one of these are found in scripture!

Found in scripture!
Taught is found 79 times
Instructed is found 19
Instruction is found 33

who decides if I cannot decide for myself?
 
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