The Insanity of the "right" to have guns!

[Bible Highlighter]

How sick and wrong these movies are? Wow! It's a family movie. It was the very first movie I saw in the theater at age six. The GIF above shows what happens if you pull a sword in front of someone with a gun. You're dead! It's funny you say that these movies are sick and wrong, yet you use a movie in the same trilogy to try and prove a point. That's hypocrisy at its finest!

I watched these movies before coming to Christ. So I know what they are about. As I said, they mix in sinful things along with some good things. The truly good things they do in the movies is still good, but its wrong to continue to watch these movies because of the sinful things promoted within them. So no hypocrisy involved. I am merely using your own playbook to help you to see.

What I believe is that while God protects me and my family, others have free will just as much as I do and they will use that free will to kill people. I see you conveniently ignored my comment when I said I have seen first hand what happens when someone doesn't protect themselves or their family. I have seen dead people who according to eyewitnesses were praying right before the gunmen killed them. I have seen a family destroyed because the mother and father were praying while they were being robbed and one or both were killed. I have seen the effects of rape because the woman said she prayed that the rapist would stop and he continued on raping her.

No. You believe God protects you sometimes otherwise you would not need a gun.

As for the accounts of what you have stated:

While it is truly unfortunate that these things have happened, I don’t think all people are truly following God. Some may think they are doing so, but most today are doing their own thing. Many today are justifying sin, and so when people sin, this leads to their prayers not being answered.

John 9:31 says,
“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”

Jesus said,
“…they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

So those who worship the Lord Jesus in spirit, and truth will be protected and have their prayers answered.
It’s not the person who keeps God at arms length while they do their own thing in life and justify sin. They only pray when they need something desperately, or when a real problem arises. They don’t pray to God so as to love Him, and make Him an every day part of their life.

Does God choose to protect some, sure, but not all. We have a duty to protect our loved ones, whether you want to believe that or not. We have a duty to protect the innocent if it is within our power to do so.

I am not against protecting the innocent if it is in the confines of our mission orders of Christ.
Non-Violence (i.e. to do no physical harm or injury or to kill) does not mean “do nothing.” I believe that a Christian can run, use physical tactics that are not harmful to stop their attacker, or to escape.

I will not allow someone else's free will to destroy my family because some Christians think the Bible says we shouldn't defend ourselves based on their faulty interpretation of scripture!

So not all things work together for good for you according to Romans 8:28.
Angels just sometimes can protect you according to Psalms 91:10-12.
Please show me where these portions of Scripture provides a clause of exception?
Maybe there is a verse or passage in another part of God’s Word that explains this?

 

[Naomanos]

Well, you're not "just fine biblically". Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor. He didn't say (anywhere) to kill your neighbor (or anyone else).

Yeah, so I am just going to sit there and allow harm to come to my family, my family comes before that person looking to harm them.

I don't believe you when you say that "the use of my firearm will only be in defense of my family or me if alone. There will be no other use for it." Why should I?

So you think I am going to go rob a store or shoot up some theater? If I say it is for the protection of my family or me when I am alone, you can believe it. I have no good reason to lie about that.

Finally, claiming that "nothing you say will change my mind" is nothing to be proud of. That just shows the inflexibility of your thinking, which will transfer to justifying killing someone because it seems right in your own mind.

The only "right in my mind" that will happen is in the defense of my family or me when someone is trying to do us harm. I have no desire to rob a store or shoot up a theater. That is not anywhere near right in my mind.

 

[Naomanos]

I watched these movies before coming to Christ. So I know what they are about. As I said, they mix in sinful things along with some good things. The truly good things they do in the movies is still good, but its wrong to watch these movies because of the sinful things promoted within them. So no hypocrisy involved. I am merely use your own playbook to help you to see.

You showed me absolutely nothing. If you bring a sword to a gunfight you are going to lose. It is truly as simple as that!

While it is truly unfortunate that these things have happened, I don’t think all people are truly following God. Some may think they are doing so, but most today are doing their own thing. Many today are justifying sin, and so when people sin, this leads to their prayers not being answered.

Of course, you would say that. What I have said goes against your narrative, so you have to come up with something to put the blame on the victims.

So those who worship the Lord Jesus in spirit, and truth will be protected and have their prayers answered.

You know as well as I do, that He still doesn't protect everyone, even if they are as you said above. The other person has free will and can exercise that free will against anyone.

Non-Violence (i.e. to do no physical harm or injury or to kill) does not mean “do nothing.” I believe that a Christian can run, use physical tactics that are not harmful to stop their attacker, or to escape.

Let us see, I live in an apartment. I am on the second floor with only two ways out the front door and the door to the balcony, but again they are on the second floor with no way down to the ground other than jumping and injuring myself. I am unable to run. Which means I have no way of escape. There are no other ways that aren't harmful to stop an attacker. They come in here to do me or my kids harm, and I will defend my kids and myself with the gun that I purchased for that reason alone. Protection.

So not all things work together for good for you according to Romans 8:28.

I suppose good will come out of it. There will be one less criminal on the streets! That right there is a good thing!

Angels just sometimes can protect you according to Psalms 91:10-12, but not always?

Considering I have seen the things that I want to protect my family against done to Christians, yes, not always. As I said, the other person has free will too.

Please show me where these portions of Scripture provides a clause of exception?

I believe that the clauses have been shown and discussed many times within this thread. I am not going to rehash them for you.

Maybe there is a verse or passage in another part of God’s Word that explains this?

No need. They are all throughout this thread.

 

[Mantis]

Guns are here to stay until Jesus returns. Plain and simple. All the gun laws don't matter to criminals. Its is the same thing every year. Shootings in mass then the liberals push for gun control. I think society is starting to be desensitized to mass shootings as they happen almost every month. This world is getting so crazy that it is almost foolish to NOT own a gun and know how to use it. And if someone decides to not own a gun then that is totally fine but just keep your hands off our guns. It is a right in this country to own firearms to protect yourself from THE GOVERNMENT!!!! Read that constitution! Everyone should also own a pocket constitution. Know your rights because they are coming for them. Our founding fathers knew what would happen.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You showed me absolutely nothing. If you bring a sword to a gunfight you are going to lose. It is truly as simple as that!

Where did I say I would bring a sword to a gun fight? I didn’t. Remember, I believe in Non-Violence as taught by Jesus Christ (unlike you). So I wouldn’t bring a sword or gun to a potential hostile situation that can make matters worse.

Of course, you would say that. What I have said goes against your narrative, so you have to come up with something to put the blame on the victims.

Of course you are a liberal. So its natural you see some people as innocent. The Bible says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is none that do good. Only God is good alone and those few believers who are not looking to justifying sin let the good work of the Lord move through them. Only God can radically change a person’s life to do good (with His working) if they allow it.

You know as well as I do, that He still doesn't protect everyone, even if they are as you said above. The other person has free will and can exercise that free will against anyone.

Because of their sin. Did you ever read about how when the Israelites sinned, they then became a conquered people? But when they obeyed, God made them victorious against their enemies. It’s the same today in a different kind of way. For we don’t fight a physical battle but we fight a spiritual one.

Let us see, I live in an apartment. I am on the second floor with only two ways out the front door and the door to the balcony, but again they are on the second floor with no way down to the ground other than jumping and injuring myself. I am unable to run. Which means I have no way of escape. There are no other ways that aren't harmful to stop an attacker. They come in here to do me or my kids harm, and I will defend my kids and myself with the gun that I purchased for that reason alone. Protection.

Again, if a person follows and obeys the Lord, then they would not need to worry about protecting themselves in such a situation. But the old man of course is hard to get rid of out of one’s life. One cannot stop thinking like they did before coming to Christ.

I suppose good will come out of it. There will be one less criminal on the streets! That right there is a good thing!

Imagine if that is what the apostles thought about Saul before he became the apostle Paul.

Considering I have seen the things that I want to protect my family against done to Christians, yes, not always. As I said, the other person has free will too.

God is not powerless to protect you or anyone. But we must obey God to have that protection. People who appear to follow God and or who pray do not truly have their hearts right with God. Most do not care to fill their minds with sinful movies, music, games, etcetera. God is holy, and good, and He cannot agree with darkness and or sin in a person’s life. So this is why they feel fear and the need to protect themselves because they are not playing ball on God’s terms.

I believe that the clauses have been shown and discussed many times within this thread. I am not going to rehash them for you. No need. They are all throughout this thread.

I don’t believe you. Why? Because there is no New Testament verses that teach Violent or Lethal Self Defense. Nobody has put forth any. So the ball is back in your court to bring forth those verses you do think defends your belief.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Guns are here to stay until Jesus returns. Plain and simple. All the gun laws don't matter to criminals. Its is the same thing every year. Shootings in mass then the liberals push for gun control. I think society is starting to be desensitized to mass shootings as they happen almost every month. This world is getting so crazy that it is almost foolish to NOT own a gun and know how to use it. And if someone decides to not own a gun then that is totally fine but just keep your hands off our guns. It is a right in this country to own firearms to protect yourself from THE GOVERNMENT!!!! Read that constitution! Everyone should also own a pocket constitution. Know your rights because they are coming for them. Our founding fathers knew what would happen.

I would rather follow Jesus than the Constitution. The Constitution was solely made by men.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am trying to decide if I believe in gun control....what do ya think? LOL

 

[Naomanos]

Where did I say I would bring a sword to a gun fight? I didn’t. Remember, I believe in Non-Violence. So I wouldn’t bring a sword or gun to a potential hostile situation that can make matters worse.

Not sure that I ever said that you would. I am just stating a basic truth.

Of course you are a liberal. So its natural you see some people as innocent. The Bible says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is none that do good. Only God is good alone and those few believers who are not looking to justifying sin let the good work of the Lord move through them. Only God can radically change a person’s life to do good (with His working) if they allow it.

First, you need to stop misrepresenting me as a Liberal. I am a moderate. Not a Liberal. Second, you know what I meant by innocent, so stop playing the semantics game with me! Those who are raped are victims, plain and simple. Those who are killed by criminals are victims.

Again, if a person follows and obeys the Lord, then they would not need to worry about protecting themselves in such a situation. But the old man of course is hard to get rid of out of one’s life. One cannot stop thinking like they did before coming to Christ.

You keep thinking that. I will pray to God that you never experience any of this. If you do, your eyes may be opened as mine were.

Imagine if that is what the apostles thought about Saul before he became the apostle Paul.

Considering the Apostle Paul wasn't a criminal, but a pharisee, there is no parallel. What Paul was doing was sanctioned. It didn't make him a criminal. Someone breaking into my home is a criminal. Someone, trying to rape another is a criminal. They are not Paul in the Bible.

God is not powerless to protect you or anyone. But we must obey God to have that protection. People who appear to follow God and or who pray do not truly have their hearts right with God. Most do not care to fill their minds with sinful movies, music, games, etcetera. God is holy, and good, and He cannot agree with darkness and or sin in a person’s life. So this is why they feel fear and the need to protect themselves because they are not playing ball on God’s terms.

I will restate what I said above: You keep thinking that. I will pray to God that you never experience any of this. If you do, your eyes may be opened as mine were.

I don’t believe you. Why? Because there is no New Testament verses that teach Violent or Lethal Self Defense. Nobody has put forth any.

Then you have a problem because there were verses put forth in this thread. What that means is that you are up to your same old MO. Only BH and those who agree with him are right and he can never be wrong, so he ignores those verses that prove him wrong.

 

[Naomanos]

I am trying to decide if I believe in gun control....what do ya think? LOLView attachment 22833

Nice Tommy gun!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not sure that I ever said that you would. I am just stating a basic truth.

But such a thing does not matter if one is under the protection of God because they follow Jesus and His teachings on Non-Violence.
Granted, Christians can be persecuted and or beaten. Do you even know that the apostles were even beaten? Did they fight back? What about Stephen? Did he pick up the stones he was being stoned with and throw them back at his attackers?

First, you need to stop misrepresenting me as a Liberal. I am a moderate. Not a Liberal.

In politics this would be the case of discussion, but not when it comes to religious beliefs, there is no such label. There are certain beliefs historically that a believer can hold to that classifies themselves as a liberal. You don’t have a problem with the gay issue because you said you would support your gay daughter and if you could you basically would attend one of her gay meetings. You also do not have a problem with laws that support abortion, as well. So the slaughter of the innocent in your view is one that is hypocritical.

Second, you know what I meant by innocent, so stop playing the semantics game with me! Those who are raped are victims, plain and simple. Those who are killed by criminals are victims.

Again, we have to look at the Final Judgment and not the scope of the world. If people are sinning and justifying sin, then they are reaping what they are sowing. If they are doing good for Christ, and they are killed, then they are persecuted for Christ and sharing in His sufferings (Which is a great honor). I would suggest checking out the Polycarp film if you have not seen it.

You keep thinking that. I will pray to God that you never experience any of this. If you do, your eyes may be opened as mine were.

The thing is that you don’t have a camera watching this person’s life 24/7 and or a microchip to record their thoughts with God watching. People may appear to be innocent and sweet and nice, but that is not the bar or indicator that they are right with GOD or following Him. They can even pray. Lots of people pray in other religions. Does God hear them?

Considering the Apostle Paul wasn't a criminal, but a pharisee, there is no parallel. What Paul was doing was sanctioned. It didn't make him a criminal. Someone breaking into my home is a criminal. Someone, trying to rape another is a criminal. They are not Paul in the Bible.

Saul (Paul) was having Christians killed and the Lord Jesus asked him why did he persecute His people. So Saul (Paul) was in the wrong and did evil in his life before became a minister for the Lord Jesus Christ. My point that flew over your head is that Saul (Paul) was a criminal in the eyes of Christians because he was out to kill them. What Saul did was no less sinful because he was having Christians murdered.

I will restate what I said above: You keep thinking that. I will pray to God that you never experience any of this. If you do, your eyes may be opened as mine were.

You are only looking at the surface of the waters where they are calm, and not looking deep beneath the surface of the waters where there are dangerous sharks. My point is that people may appear to be innocent, but they are not in God’s eyes because they sin, and do evil in His sight and they don’t follow Him.

Then you have a problem because there were verses put forth in this thread. What that means is that you are up to your same old MO. Only BH and those who agree with him are right and he can never be wrong, so he ignores those verses that prove him wrong.

And you also have an MO. You claim things without really backing them up with the Bible. Again, so the ball is back in your court to prove your case involving the Bible or to re-quote those verses you believe others have used here to refute me. Maybe you can explain it better. But we both know you are not going to do that. Why? Because nobody here has any real New Testament case to make. Nobody here has put forth any solid and good evidence in the New Testament for lethal or violent self defense for a Christian. As much as you folks try to take verses out of context to defend this kind of belief, it’s just not the reality of what we read in the New Testament. So again, the ball is back in your court.

 

[Naomanos]

But such a thing does not matter if one is under the protection of God because they follow Jesus and His teachings on Non-Violence.
Granted, Christians can be persecuted and or beaten. Do you even know that the apostles were even beaten? Did they fight back? What about Stephen? Did he pick up the stones he was being stoned with and throw them back at his attackers?



In politics this would be the case of discussion, but not when it comes to religious beliefs, there is no such label. There are certain beliefs historically that a believer can hold to that classifies themselves as a liberal. You don’t have a problem with the gay issue because you said you would support your gay daughter at one her gay pride rallies. You also do not have a problem with laws that support abortion, as well. So the slaughter of the innocent in your view is one that is hypocritical.



Again, we have to look at the Final Judgment and not the scope of the world. If people are sinning and justifying sin, then they are reaping what they are sowing. If they are doing good for Christ, and they are killed, then they are persecuted for Christ and sharing in His sufferings (Which is a great honor). I would suggest checking out the Polycarp film if you have not seen it.



The thing is that you don’t have a camera watching this person’s life 24/7 and or a microchip to record their thoughts with God watching. People may appear to be innocent and sweet and nice, but that is not the bar or indicator that they are right with GOD or following Him. They can even pray. Lots of people pray in other religions. Does God hear them?



Paul was having Christians killed and the Lord Jesus asked him why did he persecute His people. So Saul (Paul) was in the wrong and did evil in his life before became a minister for the Lord Jesus Christ. My point that flew over your head is that Saul (Paul) was a criminal in the eyes of Christians because he was out to kill them. What Saul did was no less sinful because he was having Christians murdered.



You are only looking at the surface of the waters where they are calm, and not looking deep beneath the surface of the waters where there are dangerous sharks. My point is that people may appear to be innocent, but they are not in God’s eyes because they sin, and do evil in His sight and they don’t follow Him.



And you also have an MO. You claim things without really backing them up with the Bible. Again, so the ball is back in your court to prove your case involving the Bible or to re-quote those verses you believe others have used here to refute me. Maybe you can explain it better. But we both know you are not going to do that. Why? Because nobody here has any real New Testament case to make. Nobody here has put forth any solid and good evidence in the New Testament for lethal or violent self defense for a Christian. As much as you folks try to take verses out of context to defend this kind of belief, it’s just not the reality of what we read in the New Testament. So again, the ball is back in your court.

And this is why I tend to stop engaging with you because you twist words and label people and when those people say that they aren't what you labeled them, you continue on.

Think what you want after this post. If you want to think you won this argument, be my guest, but I am done engaging with you. Maybe when you can have an honest argument without twisting words and labeling people, maybe I will again engage with you, but I don't see that happening Michaelmynameis as I remember you from another forum when you had that name and you did the same back then too.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And this is why I tend to stop engaging with you because you twist words and label people and when those people say that they aren't what you labeled them, you continue on.

Anyone can do a Google search and see that a Christian who supports gay rights, and abortion is a liberal in view of educational sources and evangelical Christianity. So I am not twisting anything. They can check these facts for themselves, and see that I am telling the truth.

Think what you want after this post. If you want to think you won this argument, be my guest, but I am done engaging with you. Maybe when you can have an honest argument without twisting words and labeling people, maybe I will again engage with you, but I don't see that happening Michaelmynameis as I remember you from another forum when you had that name and you did the same back then too.

People fall into labels by what they believe. In fact, many do label themselves (Calvinists, Lutherans, etcetera). All these labels follow a specific set of beliefs.

As for Michaelmynameis:

I have no idea what you mean by this word. Are you saying your name is Michael? Anyways, I remember you (a male poster) on the other forums based on your avatar of a lady elf you like from the Hobbit. But then again, this should not be a surprise because you like worldly sinful things. You always have even in the beginning when we first talked. So it’s no wonder you don’t want to talk about the Bible (even involving this topic).

Side Note:

It is also perplexing that you would choose a female avatar pic seeing you are a male. This again I see as misleading to others. People cannot help but to unconsciously associate pictures with who they are talking with.

 

[Mantis]

I would rather follow Jesus than the Constitution. The Constitution was solely made by men.

Well yeah lol. It is not an either/or situation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well yeah lol. It is not an either/or situation.

Paul talked about how there are those who follow another Jesus. While I am not saying that Christians who believe in using lethal force in self defense are not true Christians because I believe God gives men a learning curve or grace to eventually know the truth, but I believe that those Christians who do promote violence in some way need to re-examine their heart and life with the Lord. For one will not find any verse in the New Testament that defends Violent or Lethal Self Defense. On the contrary, the New Testament teaches the exact opposite.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well yeah lol. It is not an either/or situation.

Even the early church fathers taught Non-Violence.

Letter to Diognetus, A.D. 80 - 200

Christians … love all men, and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned; they are put to death, and restored to life. They are poor, yet make many rich; they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonored, and yet in their very dishonor are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with honor; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they rejoice as if quickened into life. They are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred. (ch. 5)

Justin Martyr, c. A.D. 150

"For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more" [Is. 2:3]. And that this did come to pass, we can convince you.

For from Jerusalem men went out into the world, twelve in number and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking; but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God. Now we who used to murder one another do not only refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we may not lie nor deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ.

For that saying, "The tongue has sworn but the mind is unsworn" [a justification for lying used in Justin's time], might be imitated by us in this matter. But if the soldiers enrolled by you, who have taken the military oath, prefer their allegiance to their own life, parents, country, and all kindred, though you can offer them nothing incorruptible, it would be truly ridiculous if we, who earnestly long for incorruption, should not endure all things in order to obtain what we desire from him who is able to grant it. (First Apology 39)

We who were filled with war, mutual slaughter, and every wickedness have each, through the whole earth, changed our warlike weapons—our swords into ploughshares and our spears into implements of tillage. In their place, we cultivate godliness, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father himself through the One who was crucified. (Dialogue with Trypho 110)

Athenagoras, A.D. 177

For when they know that we cannot endure even to see a man put to death, though justly; who of them can accuse us of murder or cannibalism? Who does not reckon among the things of greatest interest the contests of gladiators and wild beasts, especially those which are given by you? But we, deeming that to see a man put to death is much the same as killing him, have abjured such spectacles. How, then, when we do not even watch, lest we should contract guilt and pollution, can we put people to death? And when we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? (A Plea for the Christians 35)

Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 190

For we are not to delineate the faces of idols, we who are prohibited to cleave to them; nor a sword, nor a bow, since we follow peace. (The Instructor III:11)

Tertullian, c. A.D. 210

The Christian does no harm even to his foe. (Apology 46)

 

[Naomanos]

Anyone can do a Google search and see that a Christian who supports gay rights, and abortion is a liberal in view of educational sources and evangelical Christianity. So I am not twisting anything. They can check these facts for themselves, and see that I am telling the truth.

You are twisting what I have said. I support the right for people to make their own choices. There is a difference. What people choose to do they choose to do. I cannot force them to choose what I would have them choose. Yes, my daughter is gay. I cannot change that fact. She has made her choice. So either I shun her, or I love her as my daughter. I will continue to love her as my daughter. To shun her would push her away.

As for abortions. Again, I allow people to make their choices. I am against abortion for myself. Those that have bore my children bore them with no mention of abortion being uttered. This is the reason I have seven kids. With that said, if someone who isn't me or is married to me wants an abortion, again I cannot stop them. They get to make their choice. I cannot force them to not have an abortion. I am not pro-abortion. I allow people to make their choice. Just as God allows us to either follow Him or not. If they want to have an abortion and go against God, if God allows it, who I am to stop them?

So please, stop calling me a Liberal. Actual Liberals would laugh at you calling me a Liberal and I am not talking about political Liberals either.

As for Michaelmynameis

My mistake, I thought that was a prior screen name for you on another forum.

But then again, this should not be a surprise because you like worldly sinful things.

You need to be very careful with your words here. Just because my favorite character in The Hobbit which many many Christians would argue is neither worldly nor sinful, is a female, it doesn't mean that I am sinning by having her as my avatar. Also, just because you interpret scriptures differently than I do in regards to self-defense and other topics doesn't mean that I am worldly and we all sin, so you need to stop pretending that you don't.

So it’s no wonder you don’t want to talk about the Bible (even involving this topic).

I have no issues talking about the Bible, what I take issue with is someone who says they are right and no matter what anyone says to prove they are wrong continue to say they are right. That is you. Scripture has been posted in this thread to prove that you are wrong and you dismiss it all and declare you are right. I won't engage in that type of Bible discussion.

 

[Mantis]

Even the early church fathers taught Non-Violence.

Letter to Diognetus, A.D. 80 - 200

Christians … love all men, and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned; they are put to death, and restored to life. They are poor, yet make many rich; they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonored, and yet in their very dishonor are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with honor; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they rejoice as if quickened into life. They are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred. (ch. 5)

Justin Martyr, c. A.D. 150

"For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more" [Is. 2:3]. And that this did come to pass, we can convince you.

For from Jerusalem men went out into the world, twelve in number and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking; but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God. Now we who used to murder one another do not only refrain from making war upon our enemies, but also, that we may not lie nor deceive our examiners, willingly die confessing Christ.

For that saying, "The tongue has sworn but the mind is unsworn" [a justification for lying used in Justin's time], might be imitated by us in this matter. But if the soldiers enrolled by you, who have taken the military oath, prefer their allegiance to their own life, parents, country, and all kindred, though you can offer them nothing incorruptible, it would be truly ridiculous if we, who earnestly long for incorruption, should not endure all things in order to obtain what we desire from him who is able to grant it. (First Apology 39)

We who were filled with war, mutual slaughter, and every wickedness have each, through the whole earth, changed our warlike weapons—our swords into ploughshares and our spears into implements of tillage. In their place, we cultivate godliness, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father himself through the One who was crucified. (Dialogue with Trypho 110)

Athenagoras, A.D. 177

For when they know that we cannot endure even to see a man put to death, though justly; who of them can accuse us of murder or cannibalism? Who does not reckon among the things of greatest interest the contests of gladiators and wild beasts, especially those which are given by you? But we, deeming that to see a man put to death is much the same as killing him, have abjured such spectacles. How, then, when we do not even watch, lest we should contract guilt and pollution, can we put people to death? And when we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? (A Plea for the Christians 35)

Clement of Alexandria, c. A.D. 190

For we are not to delineate the faces of idols, we who are prohibited to cleave to them; nor a sword, nor a bow, since we follow peace. (The Instructor III:11)

Tertullian, c. A.D. 210

The Christian does no harm even to his foe. (Apology 46)

No one is promoting violence. Guns are to prevent violence. Pretty simple really.

 

[JohnPaul]

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you, friend.

And may he also bless you my friend.

 

[Grailhunter]

No one is promoting violence. Guns are to prevent violence. Pretty simple really.

The history of the world.....the peacekeeper that keeps the peace....carries the biggest stick.

 

[Mantis]

The history of the world.....the peacekeeper that keeps the peace....carries the biggest stick.

Yep