1st problem with O.S.A.S.

[theefaith]

You’re not saved!

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)




Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!




Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[RedFan]

Thanks for this collection of verses on point. Important for even Fundamentalists to consider -- although I'm pretty sure they won't. The certainty of salvation from Day One is just too important a concept to them, and they will defend it by marshaling other verses that tend their way.

And buckle up, because they will be brutal. I'm surprised your post hasn't drawn fire already!

 

[theefaith]

Tried by fire? I’ve seen it all! Thanks

 

[amigo de christo]

Thanks for this collection of verses on point. Important for even Fundamentalists to consider -- although I'm pretty sure they won't. The certainty of salvation from Day One is just too important a concept to them, and they will defend it by marshaling other verses that tend their way.

And buckle up, because they will be brutal. I'm surprised your post hasn't drawn fire already!

Both the CC and much of the protestant realm
has went to the far extremes . Its real simply really .
FAITH IN JESUS is what saves us . Continue in CHRIST to the end .

 

[amigo de christo]

You’re not saved!

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)




Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!




Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!
That was the only line i had a problem with . Salvation is by FAITH IN CHRIST . HOWEVER , IF one is not a hearer and a doer
THEN THEIR FAITH IS DEAD FAITH . ITS NOT TRUE FAITH AT ALL .

 

[Taken]

First problem with O.S.A.S
Op^

You’re not saved!

First remark of the OP, point blank revealing their UTTER, (and sadly amusing) Ignorance.

The OP conclusion...
The OP is claiming SAVED, means NOT SAVED.....

My conclusion...
I Agree with the original poster, that He is “NOT SAVED”.

My opinion...
The “NOT SAVED” original poster, seems to be likened to a child throwing a hissy fit, since he DOES NOT HAVE his SALVATION, neither should ANYONE ELSE HAVE their SALVATION...

OFF to the corner OP, What others HAVE, has nothing to do with what YOU DO NOT HAVE.

 

[Taken]

Thanks for this collection of verses on point.

Those quoted verses ARE NOT on point to a SAV-ED man.

SAV-ED men ARE SAV-ED...
The suffix should notify you, it is ALREADY accomplish-ED!

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


2Cor.2
[15] For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:


Not sure what you believe is so great about a list of verses about men WHO ARE NOT SAVED.

Not sure what you believe is so great about the Original Poster claiming Scripture LIES, that no men ARE SAVED.

Best review what SCRIPTURE Does SAY rather than what the original poster is peddling.

 

[mailmandan]

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!
That was the only line i had a problem with . Salvation is by FAITH IN CHRIST . HOWEVER , IF one is not a hearer and a doer
THEN THEIR FAITH IS DEAD FAITH . ITS NOT TRUE FAITH AT ALL .

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[mailmandan]

Those quoted verses ARE NOT on point to a SAV-ED man.

SAV-ED men ARE SAV-ED...
The suffix should notify you, it is ALREADY accomplish-ED!

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

2Cor.2
[15] For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Not sure what you believe is so great about a list of verses about men WHO ARE NOT SAVED.

Not sure what you believe is so great about the Original Poster claiming Scripture LIES, that no men ARE SAVED.

Best review what SCRIPTURE Does SAY rather than what the original poster is peddling.

Works-salvationists typically confuse three tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) They also confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture.

 

[theefaith]

Both the CC and much of the protestant realm
has went to the far extremes . Its real simply really .
FAITH IN JESUS is what saves us . Continue in CHRIST to the end .

how do you put in Christ?

 

[theefaith]

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!
That was the only line i had a problem with . Salvation is by FAITH IN CHRIST . HOWEVER , IF one is not a hearer and a doer
THEN THEIR FAITH IS DEAD FAITH . ITS NOT TRUE FAITH AT ALL .

Are the sacraments required for justification and sanctification and salvation ??

 

[Taken]

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Yes.

Works are whole different aspect.
Works of the Power of God...to MAKE a man Converted..is one thing and applies to God.
Works that apply to men IS Works of man that Glorifies God.

DO WORKS that Glorify God?.
.....REWARD given.
....”REWARDS FOR what”?
....”your works that Glorified God”.
....RECEIVED ‘when’?
....When the Son of man returns to Earth.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 

[theefaith]

Works-salvationists typically confuse three tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification) They also confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of scripture.

works alone? no!
Faith alone? no!

Charity

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

9

3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin

Why weren’t Adam and Eve, the Angels, and Satan not afforded this power?

Because this is a lie from the Once Saved Always Saved crowd.

If you cannot stop sinning now you won’t stop sinning in heaven either; Which is why you will not be allowed in in the first place!

Because after Christ took away your old sins you decided to keep adding new sins.

 

[theefaith]

The answer is GRACE!

 

[farouk]

Yes.

Works are whole different aspect.
Works of the Power of God...to MAKE a man Converted..is one thing and applies to God.
Works that apply to men IS Works of man that Glorifies God.

DO WORKS that Glorify God?.
.....REWARD given.
....”REWARDS FOR what”?
....”your works that Glorified God”.
....RECEIVED ‘when’?
....When the Son of man returns to Earth.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

@Taken Works follow faith; they don't produce it......

 

[RedFan]

Those quoted verses ARE NOT on point to a SAV-ED man.

SAV-ED men ARE SAV-ED...
The suffix should notify you, it is ALREADY accomplish-ED!

1 Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


2Cor.2
[15] For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

Please consider the suffix in the Greek that these verses were written in. 1 Cor. 1:18 and 2 Cor. 2:15 both use σῳζομένοις which is a present participle, properly translated as "being saved."

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Once saved always saved is correct !
But not as many may claim ?
I agree with all that theefaith has put forward to this point.

OSAS Is only after one is truly born again. as once one is truly Saved one can not go back to the Vomit ? and if one does go back to the Vomit then they were never truly Saved in the first place.

I was always against the OSAS cards that some people would play.
One could say because one was, religious they were Saved ? but that's not true at all ! not to mention because one claims to believe, does not cut it ? because they truly have another Jesus or they do not know Jesus at all ? or they do not believe Jesus is the Christ ! Not to mention one must abide in him ? Jesus pointed this out in fact, as we se he says that he never knew them ? They came saying did we not do X,Y and Z ?

Christ Jesus is first and foremost in ones life above everything ! He is the wellspring. Without him you have no root in him, Christ Jesus is the Vine and we are the branches their of.
One lives and breaths Christ Jesus, once one is truly born again. They who had a 2 way bet on him are X,Y and Z.

I believed strongly as anyone in Jesus was the Christ, I was devout ! but I did not know him truly 100% until he came to me and bingo the lights came on ! 100% faith I knew him ! it blew me away ! just out of the blue, bang ! I was hit, much like Saul was ? and I came out from them ! I was no longer religious ? I did not need religion, I had Jesus Christ ! and Jesus Christ has me.

Could of Saul rejected Christ Jesus after that encounter ? No way ! that's why he became Paul ! Paul is no longer the person he was before ! not to mention the fruit that Paul gives us all, come from who ? it's not of himself at all, he gives all the glory to Christ Jesus in fact !
Some people idolise Paul, but I do not, he is just like anyone who was Saved.
I do not put anyone above any Saved person at all, but we all have our fruits and within Grace given us we then can see within the Holy Spiritual body. outside of such can not comprehend such things, for they are of this world.
One must come to the Spiritual Well Spring, so that one is fed by the Holy Spirit ! and this is Christ Jesus in fact. one must drink freely ! then one will receive to your calling.

 

[RedFan]

When OSAS folks say "saved," they mean "guaranteed salvation," don't they?

 

[Taken]

Please consider the suffix in the Greek that these verses were written in. 1 Cor. 1:18 and 2 Cor. 2:15 both use σῳζομένοις which is a present participle, properly translated as "being saved."

I don’t speak Greek.
I do trust:
Some are bodily dead, and are soul saved and spirit quickened
Some are bodily dead, and are not soul saved
Some are bodily alive, and becoming soul saved
Some are bodily alive, and not becoming soul saved
Some shall bodily die, and be soul saved and spirit quickened
Some shall bodily die, and not be soul saved.
Some are bodily alive, and are not soul saved.

By, through, of Christ Jesus;
Some are bodily alive, and are soul saved and spirit quickened

Eph 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

[19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Glory to God,
Taken