What is so wrong with Calvinism ?

[BarneyFife]

Over 4 decades ago, but you're not interested in my testimony, or are you?

Bible Answer For Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

You don't even remember, do you? No, I'm afraid the testimony of someone who would copy-and-paste a bunch of embarrassingly obvious lies from a hate web site and then run and hide without saying 'sorry' or even 'oops' when he was called on it, would not interest me in the slightest—thank you just the same.

 

[PinSeeker]

The 'making too much of the metaphor' error.

Actually, I would call it a "making far too little of the metaphor" error. But still, metaphor it is; thank you for acknowledging that.

I just believe the Holy Spirit's power and versatility is a little more sophisticated than an on/off light switch. I don't believe He's limited to regeneration-or-nothing.

I'm... not even sure what you mean by "limited to regeneration or nothing," quite frankly.

The answer to the big question always asked of Calvinists is always: "Well, it's just beyond our finite understanding..."

Not so. I'm... not even sure where this came from. We may not be able to completely grasp this or that, but that does not in any way mean the concept of it cannot be understood. Take the triune nature of God, that God is One in three and Three in one at the same time. We can't completely grasp that ~ wrap our minds around it ~ but we can certainly understand the concept and accept it as true, and not blindly in any way.

And, like I always say: "It was dark outside when I was born, but it wasn't last night."

Now, do you mean to say that it was actually night time or stormy and thus dark outside? Or was one of the many dark days in the course of history?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ChristisGod]

No, God doesnt love everyone. Did He love esau? Did He love judas? No.

3404. miseó ► Strong's Concordance
miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

Here is the " authoritative " Greek Lexicon used in every seminary by all Greek Scholars/Theologians- BDAG.

to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 653.

And here is a Reformed Greek Scholar/Greek Grammarian who's Greek Grammar is used in Seminary Robert Mounce

I loved, but Esau I hated” (Mal 1:2–3). This should not be interpreted to mean that God actually hated Esau. The strong contrast is a Semitic idiom that heightens the comparison by stating it in absolute terms. 17

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 198–199.

Berkeley softens the contrast translating, “To Jacob I was drawn, but Esau I repudiated” (the NRSV has “chose” and “rejected”). In discussing the “hatred” of God, Michel comments that it “is not so much an emotion as a rejection in will and deed” (TDNT 4.687).

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995).

Here is Reformed Greek Scholar/Theologian Leon Morris

13. Characteristically Paul backs up his argument with a quotation from Scripture, this one from Malachi 1:2–3: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Two questions are important here: Is Paul referring to nations or individuals? and What is meant by hated? As to the first, we have just seen that the Genesis passage refers primarily to nations and we would expect that to continue here. That this is the case seems clear from what Malachi writes about Esau: “Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals” (Mal. 1:3). Both in Genesis and Malachi the reference is clearly to nations, and we should accept this as Paul’s meaning accordingly.

The meaning of hated is a different kind of problem. There is a difficulty in that Scripture speaks of a love of God for the whole world (John 3:16) and the meaning of “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16) is surely that God loves, quite irrespective of merit or demerit in the beloved. Specifically he is said to love sinners (Rom. 5:8). It is also true that in Scripture there are cases where “hate” seems clearly to mean “love less” (e.g., Gen. 29:31, 33; Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; John 12:25). Many find this an acceptable solution here: God loved Esau (and the nation Edom) less than he loved Jacob (and Israel). But it is perhaps more likely that like Calvin we should understand the expression in the sense “reject” over against “accept”. He explains the passage thus: “I chose Jacob and rejected Esau, induced to this course by my mercy alone, and not by any worthiness in his works.… I had rejected the Edomites.…” This accords with the stress throughout this passage on the thought of election for service. God chose Israel for this role; he did not so choose Edom.


Leon Morris, The Epistle to the Romans, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI; Leicester, England: W.B. Eerdmans; Inter-Varsity Press, 1988), 356–357.

conclusion:when one does not have a theological bias to prove and can be objective like these Reformed Greek Scholars above you are able to exegete the passage with integrity, honesty and be unbiased.

hope this helps !!!

 

[BarneyFife]

3404. miseó ► Strong's Concordance
miseó: to hate
Original Word: μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less.

Here is the " authoritative " Greek Lexicon used in every seminary by all Greek Scholars/Theologians- BDAG.

to be disinclined to, disfavor, disregard in contrast to preferential treatment (Gn 29:31; Dt 21:15, 16) Mt 6:24; Lk 16:13. τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ J 12:25 or ἑαυτοῦ Lk 14:26 (cp. the formulation Plut, Mor. 556d οὐδʼ ἐμίσουν ἑαυτούς; on the theme cp. Tyrtaeus [VII B.C.] 8, 5 D.3). Ro 9:13

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 653.

And here is a Reformed Greek Scholar/Greek Grammarian who's Greek Grammar is used in Seminary Robert Mounce

I loved, but Esau I hated” (Mal 1:2–3). This should not be interpreted to mean that God actually hated Esau. The strong contrast is a Semitic idiom that heightens the comparison by stating it in absolute terms. 17

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 198–199.

Berkeley softens the contrast translating, “To Jacob I was drawn, but Esau I repudiated” (the NRSV has “chose” and “rejected”). In discussing the “hatred” of God, Michel comments that it “is not so much an emotion as a rejection in will and deed” (TDNT 4.687).

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27, The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995).

Here is Reformed Greek Scholar/Theologian Leon Morris

13. Characteristically Paul backs up his argument with a quotation from Scripture, this one from Malachi 1:2–3: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Two questions are important here: Is Paul referring to nations or individuals? and What is meant by hated? As to the first, we have just seen that the Genesis passage refers primarily to nations and we would expect that to continue here. That this is the case seems clear from what Malachi writes about Esau: “Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals” (Mal. 1:3). Both in Genesis and Malachi the reference is clearly to nations, and we should accept this as Paul’s meaning accordingly.

The meaning of hated is a different kind of problem. There is a difficulty in that Scripture speaks of a love of God for the whole world (John 3:16) and the meaning of “God is love” (1 John 4:8, 16) is surely that God loves, quite irrespective of merit or demerit in the beloved. Specifically he is said to love sinners (Rom. 5:8). It is also true that in Scripture there are cases where “hate” seems clearly to mean “love less” (e.g., Gen. 29:31, 33; Deut. 21:15; Matt. 6:24; Luke 14:26; John 12:25). Many find this an acceptable solution here: God loved Esau (and the nation Edom) less than he loved Jacob (and Israel). But it is perhaps more likely that like Calvin we should understand the expression in the sense “reject” over against “accept”. He explains the passage thus: “I chose Jacob and rejected Esau, induced to this course by my mercy alone, and not by any worthiness in his works.… I had rejected the Edomites.…” This accords with the stress throughout this passage on the thought of election for service. God chose Israel for this role; he did not so choose Edom.


Leon Morris, The Epistle to the Romans, The Pillar New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids, MI; Leicester, England: W.B. Eerdmans; Inter-Varsity Press, 1988), 356–357.

conclusion:when one does not have a theological bias to prove and can be objective like these Reformed Greek Scholars above you are able to exegete the passage with integrity, honesty and be unbiased.

hope this helps !!!

Actually, I remember reading once that the Hebrew understanding of hating someone is actually more like them hating you. IOW, a more accurate reading would be "Esau is my enemy."

Also, when God talks about loving someone in particular, especially in the Old Testament, it often means only that this person is extraordinarily allowing God to lavish His love upon them, with the idea that the fact that God loves everyone is a foregone conclusion.

He angers but He does not hate in the self-uncontrolled fashion that men do. God's 'hate' is incomparable to man's, in fact. That is why He says "Vengeance is Mine." He is the only One Who can administer it properly. This is why predetermination is not feasible.

God even loves Satan. He did not create Lucifer to become a rebel. He placed him at His very side so that he would have the best opportunity to behold the beauty and purity of Himself and thus have every advantage in reflecting His character forever. When God says He is not willing that any should perish and that the destruction of the wicked is His "strange act," He means just what He says.

 

[ChristisGod]

PROPITIATION

The value of Christ’s death as a vindication of God’s righteousness is indicated by the word propitiation. Here we enter upon an intricate aspect of the doctrine of the Atonement. The word “propitiation” appears in the English Bible three times. The Apostle John uses it twice in his First Epistle. Speaking of Jesus Christ, he writes,

He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (I John 2:2).

And again,

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins (I John 4:10).

The Greek word here is “hilasmos,” and means “that which propitiates.” It signifies expiation. Numbers 5:8 speaks of “the ram of atonement” (propitiation), and again in Psalm 130:4, “There is forgiveness (propitiation) with Thee.” Here is the sole ground upon which God shows mercy to guilty sinners. Christ alone, through the shedding of His Blood in His sacrificial and substitutionary Death on the Cross, is the Propitiation, that which expiates or propitiates. He extinguishes the guilt of the sinner by suffering the penalty for sin. Notice that it does not say that His death was the propitiation, but that He himself is the Propitiation. It is the Person of our Lord which gives efficacy to His atoning work.

In Romans 3:25 the Apostle Paul speaks of Christ,

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His Blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forebearance of God.

Here the Greek word is not “hilasmos,” meaning “that which propitiates,” but “hilasterion,” which means, “the place of propitiation.” The word “hilasterion” is used in Hebrews 9:5, where we read: “And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat (hilasterion, or the place of propitiation).”

“Propitiation” means “mercy seat” in Hebrews 9:5, and we must go back to the Old Testament to see what the mercy seat was typically to the Israelite. The mercy seat was the golden lid or the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies. Once a year, on the Day of Atonement, the high priest sprinkled the sacrificial blood of an innocent victim to atone for the broken Law. The tables of stone on which were written the holy Law were kept in the Ark. The sprinkled blood covered the broken Law and made possible a meeting place between God and the sinner (Exodus 25:21-22; Leviticus 16:2, 13-14). The mercy seat was made of pure gold (Exodus 25:17), and covered the whole Ark.

Jesus Christ, the pure Son of God, is the sinner’s Mercy Seat, and His Blood covers all our sin. According to Scripture, therefore, the mercy seat in the Tabernacle was a type of our Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord fulfilled the type and symbol perfectly. After His death and burial He arose from the grave, ascended into Heaven, and on the ground of His shed Blood made possible a meeting place where the sinner could come to God.

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own Blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us (Hebrews 9:12).

Christ Himself is the Mercy Seat sprinkled with His own precious Blood.

In our Lord’s propitiatory work there is no thought of God placating Himself or of appeasing His own anger. God’s feeling toward mankind has never changed. There never was a time in man’s history when God did not love him. God always has desired to bless man with salvation and its accompanying peace and joy, but the sin of man placed an obstacle in God’s way, separating the sinner from Himself. It is true that God hates sin and will always hate sin. The Death of Jesus Christ did in no wise change God’s view of sin.

The Death of Christ was a purely legal operation. The Judge took upon Himself the penalty so that the judgment seat becomes the mercy seat. The prayer of the publican, “God be merciful to me a sinner” (Luke 18:13), is literally, “God be propitious to me a sinner.” This passage is sometimes misunderstood and misused. This man stood on Old Testament ground before the Death of Christ, and he was actually asking God to offer that one Sacrifice for sin which would put that sin away and thus provide a ground upon which a holy and righteous God could bless him with salvation. Remember, he was not asking God to be generous or lenient with him. He was merely asking God to be propitious, and in making such a request he was justified.

Now we can see plainly that such a prayer need not be uttered today. God has been propitious in Christ. The eternal Son became our Mercy Seat, and to ask God to do what He already has done would be rejecting the Death of Christ. God cannot be lenient with sin, and sinners need not beg mercy from God. God was merciful when He provided for man the Saviour, and man is saved when he believes in and receives the Lord Jesus Christ. God has paid the penalty for sin, and on that basis His mercy is extended to you today.

For Thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon Thee (Psalm 86:5).

. . . With the Lord there is mercy, and with Him is plenteous redemption (Psalm 130:7).The Atonement of Christ | Bible.org

hope this helps !!!

 

[reformed1689]

PROPITIATION

The value of Christ’s death as a vindication of God’s righteousness is indicated by the word propitiation. Here we enter upon an intricate aspect of the doctrine of the Atonement. The word “propitiation” appears in the English Bible three times. The Apostle John uses it twice in his First Epistle. Speaking of Jesus Christ, he writes,

He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world (I John 2:2).

And again,

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins (I John 4:10).

The Greek word here is “hilasmos,” and means “that which propitiates.” It signifies expiation. Numbers 5:8 speaks of “the ram of atonement” (propitiation), and again in Psalm 130:4, “There is forgiveness (propitiation) with Thee.” Here is the sole ground upon which God shows mercy to guilty sinners. Christ alone, through the shedding of His Blood in His sacrificial and substitutionary Death on the Cross, is the Propitiation, that which expiates or propitiates. He extinguishes the guilt of the sinner by suffering the penalty for sin. Notice that it does not say that His death was the propitiation, but that He himself is the Propitiation. It is the Person of our Lord which gives efficacy to His atoning work.

In Romans 3:25 the Apostle Paul speaks of Christ,

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His Blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forebearance of God.

Here the Greek word is not “hilasmos,” meaning “that which propitiates,” but “hilasterion,” which means, “the place of propitiation.” The word “hilasterion” is used in Hebrews 9:5, where we read: “And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat (hilasterion, or the place of propitiation).”

“Propitiation” means “mercy seat” in Hebrews 9:5, and we must go back to the Old Testament to see what the mercy seat was typically to the Israelite. The mercy seat was the golden lid or the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies. Once a year, on the Day of Atonement, the high priest sprinkled the sacrificial blood of an innocent victim to atone for the broken Law. The tables of stone on which were written the holy Law were kept in the Ark. The sprinkled blood covered the broken Law and made possible a meeting place between God and the sinner (Exodus 25:21-22; Leviticus 16:2, 13-14). The mercy seat was made of pure gold (Exodus 25:17), and covered the whole Ark.

Jesus Christ, the pure Son of God, is the sinner’s Mercy Seat, and His Blood covers all our sin. According to Scripture, therefore, the mercy seat in the Tabernacle was a type of our Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord fulfilled the type and symbol perfectly. After His death and burial He arose from the grave, ascended into Heaven, and on the ground of His shed Blood made possible a meeting place where the sinner could come to God.

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own Blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us (Hebrews 9:12).

Christ Himself is the Mercy Seat sprinkled with His own precious Blood.

In our Lord’s propitiatory work there is no thought of God placating Himself or of appeasing His own anger. God’s feeling toward mankind has never changed. There never was a time in man’s history when God did not love him. God always has desired to bless man with salvation and its accompanying peace and joy, but the sin of man placed an obstacle in God’s way, separating the sinner from Himself. It is true that God hates sin and will always hate sin. The Death of Jesus Christ did in no wise change God’s view of sin.

The Death of Christ was a purely legal operation. The Judge took upon Himself the penalty so that the judgment seat becomes the mercy seat. The prayer of the publican, “God be merciful to me a sinner” (Luke 18:13), is literally, “God be propitious to me a sinner.” This passage is sometimes misunderstood and misused. This man stood on Old Testament ground before the Death of Christ, and he was actually asking God to offer that one Sacrifice for sin which would put that sin away and thus provide a ground upon which a holy and righteous God could bless him with salvation. Remember, he was not asking God to be generous or lenient with him. He was merely asking God to be propitious, and in making such a request he was justified.

Now we can see plainly that such a prayer need not be uttered today. God has been propitious in Christ. The eternal Son became our Mercy Seat, and to ask God to do what He already has done would be rejecting the Death of Christ. God cannot be lenient with sin, and sinners need not beg mercy from God. God was merciful when He provided for man the Saviour, and man is saved when he believes in and receives the Lord Jesus Christ. God has paid the penalty for sin, and on that basis His mercy is extended to you today.

For Thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon Thee (Psalm 86:5).

. . . With the Lord there is mercy, and with Him is plenteous redemption (Psalm 130:7).The Atonement of Christ | Bible.org

hope this helps !!!

Except God did not pay for all sin. No Scripture states that he did. Not a drop of Christ's blood was wasted.

 

[ChristisGod]

Where is @stunnedbygrace when we need her?

missing persons report lol

 

[FloridaTom]

Love is one of the primary and essential attributes which reflect the nature and character of God. The word Theology refers to the study of God, and God is Triune, a Trinity- Tri-Unity. All doctrine begins with God at its starting point. God’s innate attributes are Aseity (God is self-sufficient), Infinite (without limit), Eternal (God has no beginning or end, he is timeless), Immutable (God is unchanging), Love (God is love), Holy (God is set-apart), Perichoresis (the indwelling of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Divine Simplicity states God is Love and because He is Love, not because He possesses that quality. God's love is the center of all the Divine Attributes. They point to His Being. God is not distinct from His nature.

God is Love. In love, the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John 4 tells us.

We must understand how God's attributes all work in harmony together, not in opposition to each other. God's attributes and character flow from His love—for God is love.

God being love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is love, and that love is perfect, lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love, by definition, has to be expressed with another, which is why a unitarian god cannot be love. Love requires another to share and express that love, and it is what we see with the Triune God. God is love before anyone/anything existed.

In Calvin’s Institutes monumental work, it is interesting for a man with such an attention to detail when it comes to dogma and Scripture that he left out any mention of Gods primary attribute that God is love from 1 John 4:8;1 John 4:16 and any biblical reference to those two verses in 1 John regarding God is love. His institutes contain thousands of bible references, over 1500 pages and 40 index pages of scripture references. But strikingly he chose to leave out God is love and the 2 passages in 1 John.

Another interesting fact is that in the Shorter Westminster Catechism of Faith, question 4 “What is God “? We read the following regarding Gods attributes and notice what is left out.

“God is Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth. “

Notice like in Calvin’s Institute’s, the WCF leaves out Gods primary attribute that He is love.

Before creation, there was no sin. There was no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, and justice. There was no Sovereignty for there was no creation to be Sovereign over. Why do you ask about those attributes and that they were not necessary? Because those are God's secondary attributes concerning the creation and the fall. God's love is a primary attribute, like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes, which were not in use until the creation and the fall.

The true nature of Gods love is at the heart of the gospel message: God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in His shall not perish but have everlasting life, John 3:16.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17.

conclusion: Love is missing in Calvinism. In calvinist doctrine we get an unbiblical view of Gods love for man and a gospel that is limited to some, not all.

PS- I was a staunch calvinist for over 40 years. So I understand the ins and outs of calvinism very well as I have defended it for several decades. Love is the missing link in Calvinism.

hope this helps !!!

1 John 4:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.


1 John 4:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Miss love miss the gospel

 

[BarneyFife]

1 John 4:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.


1 John 4:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Miss love miss the gospel

WELCOME, WELCOME!!!

...................

....................

 

[GRACE ambassador]

1 John 4:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.


1 John 4:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Miss love miss the gospel

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[ChristisGod]

1 John 4:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.


1 John 4:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Miss love miss the gospel

Amen

 

[BarneyFife]

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome to the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

Give me a break with your syrupy hypocrisy, already.

 

[Fool4Jesus]

Amen

I'm Aboard, I'm glad you came up with this idea. Looking forward to learning more about what's wrong with Calvinism.

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm Aboard, I'm glad you came up with this idea. Looking forward to learning more about what's wrong with Calvinism.

Amen brother !

 

[Taken]

What is so wrong with Calvinism ?
OP ^

Parallel to what is wrong with the covid VAX.
Parallel to what is wrong with many modern churches.

Taking what IS said, Changing the words, then claiming:
Whoopie....THIS is Calvinism.
Whoopie....THIS is a Vaccine.
Whoopie....THIS is the Word of God.

 

[Taken]

No the premise is right in Calvins most monumental/theological work the Institutes he conveniently and intentionally left out God is love and the 1 John references when in his appendix there are over 40 pages of scripture references and 1000's of bible references quoted in his work. That is the point and the same with question 4 in the Westminster shorter Catechism the Attribute that God is love was left out. It is a stumbling block on Calvinist theology. Double Predestination is an assault on Gods nature/character being Love. Since man has no choice in his salvation according to Calvinism and Gods grace is irresistible and those who will be saved wee elect before creation then God by default cannot be love or loving since He has created most of mankind for hell.

Love defined.

agapé: love, goodwill
Original Word: ἀγάπη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: agapé
Phonetic Spelling: (ag-ah'-pay)
Definition: love, goodwill
Usage: love, benevolence, good will, esteem;

Benevolence- doing good to others, goodwill, kind, helpful.

I define LOVE as doing what is right regardless of the consequences.

 

[reformed1689]

1 John 4:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.


1 John 4:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Miss love miss the gospel

Miss the original audience, miss the meaning. That was written to Christians, believers.

 

[PinSeeker]

I'm Aboard, I'm glad you came up with this idea. Looking forward to learning more about what's wrong with Calvinism.

LOL! I think that depends on what you mean by "learning." Welcome aboard, but be careful of fake news perpetuators. Don't be this guy:

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ChristisGod]

Except God did not pay for all sin. No Scripture states that he did. Not a drop of Christ's blood was wasted.

Sure He did see 1 John 2:2, John 3:16-18 and Hebrews 2:9 for starters.

 

[PinSeeker]

Sure He did see 1 John 2:2, John 3:16-18 and Hebrews 2:9 for starters.

So, reformed1689 said, "God did not pay for all sin." This is true in one sense but untrue in another. And I'm pretty sure he/she is well aware of that. It's true in the sense that Christ's atonement was sufficient for the world, but is not true in the sense that Christ's atonement was not made to be effective unto all. All these verses, Christophany, clearly state the sufficiency of Christ's atonement for all, and not the effectiveness unto all.

Grace and peace to you.