Under the Law is a curse, not Doing the Law

[robert derrick]

Under the law is being in bodage to the law: It is not being in love with the law to do it from the heart.

It is a curse to try and keep any law, that we do not love, nor enjoy doing, including Christ's.

It is not a curse to do the law of Christ with all the heart, but is only a curse to do so outwardly in letter only, while still hating it in the heart.

Jesus came to free the Jews from bondage to the law, by purifying the heart first, that they, like David, may love to do the law of God, and not begrudgingly with the flesh only:

I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love. I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

Those that are still under the law of Christ, begrudgingly forcing themselves to do it with the flesh, are still cursed as the Jews seeking to be justified by the law, and not by faith: they have not the Spirit of Christ dwelling within their hearts.

Those who know and love the Lawgiver, are also them that love to do His law, even as He does: They are the ones, like David, delivered from the curse of the law, that is still upon them that neither love the Lawgiver nor His law.

Them that teach being delivered from the law of Christ itself, are simply them that still begrudge doing His law, because they have yet to receive the Lawgiver Christ Himself: they are still under the law in bondgae to do it, not loving it.

Like Maxwell Smart would say, when speaking of his work for Control against Chaos: "And loving it!"

Those who seek to be no longer under bondage to law of Christ, by being free themselves from His law, are them that tire of doing the letter only, so that they convince themselves to be rid of His law altogether, rather than simply receive the Lawgiver into their hearts:

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

Those who actually teach the law of Christ on paper is dead, or doing the law is a curse, deserve every bit of derision they delusionally open themselves up to.

 

[robert derrick]

The reason many argue around in foolish circles about the spiritual things of God in Scripture, and the relationship between Jesus and His church as written, is because we cannot now see Jesus Christ in the flesh.

That is why Scripture uses the marriage between man and woman, which we can see, to show the relationship between ourselves and Christ, that we cannot see.

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

If a man hate the law of Christ written in Scripture which can be seen, how can he love Christ whom he cannot see?

That is why God chose the law of marriage to show the relationship between Christ and His church as pertaining to law:

1. So long as we are married, we are bound by the law of marriage against adultery with another.

2. When we are not married, there is no law of marriage for us to abide by.

3. When we become married to another, we are now bound by the law of marriage again, which also pertains to Christ.

4. Being dead to the law of marriage by not being married, does not mean the law of marriage is now dead for all.

5. The law of marriage is not evil, but rather being bound by that law, so as to be under it in bondage to it, is the curse of a marriage without love and faithfulness from the heart: It is marriage by law only. It is marriage as by law, not as by love and faithfulness from the heart.

Being married as by law only, while yet seeking the death of the spouse, that we may marry another, is no marriage bed honored by God.

So it is with the law of Christ, in being married to Himself as His people: so long as we see His law as a curse to be in bondage to, until the death of the body for resurrection's sake, we are not justified by Christ, for within our hearts we still lust for another: the old man and body of sin, who is the one we were supposed to die to and so be freed from the law of marriage to.

Romans 7 is simply about double hearted hearers of the word, who seek to be wed with Christ in the resurrection as by law only: they are not now dead to the law of marriage to the body of sin, and yet seek to be in a begrudged marriage to Christ, being bound by law not to sin with the flesh: They honor the marriage vow outwardly, but inwardly with their hearts, they are far from their espoused Savior and His cursed grievous law over their flesh:

He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

While they honour and even seek to obey the law of marriage outwardly, they are secretly in adultery with another god and idol of sin, which is the adultery of the children of Israel today:

And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

The would be wed to Christ in their minds by hearing the word of the gospel, but find themselves still in bondage to the marriage of the old man of sin, whom has not yet died: they are in a state of spiritual adultery, as proven by the works of the flesh in bed with the old man.

And Jesus knows it, nor does He approve it: Jesus Christ is not a husband in a threesome between the sinning soul still laying with the devil in the flesh.

No soul sinning can be wed to Christ, because no soul can be wed to the devil and Christ:

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[Davy]

Again, I believe what you're trying to say about God's law per Christian doctrine is a bit confusing.

The "law of Christ" Apostle Paul speaks of in Galatians 6 is about how we are to forgive each other's faults, bearing each other's burdens, whereas under the old covenant, our error might have put us in grave danger in breaking God's law. For example, being caught under the old covenant as an adulterer the penalty was death. Not under the New Covenant Jesus Christ though. The actual knowledge of the sin did not go away under Christ, but the penalty was changed, adding an element of forgiveness (even though a penalty in divorce might still be administered). Thus the "law of Christ" applied.

Also with God's health laws, that of eating from God's list of unhealthy things, that did not go away, but religious and political penalties for doing so changed. We can eat those things under Christ, but our flesh body still won't be as healthy. In other words, the main reason for God giving those dietary lists was so our body would be healthier.

There's also agricultural things in God's laws, like God said to not cut the corners of your field and to leave the harvest gleanings, so the poor and stranger could eat. That practice is still followed in some Christian nations, like in Spain. (I've been there, done that, after pulling off on the side of the road, I went into an un-fenced corner of a field and got me a few Valencia oranges in Valencia, Spain. At first I was against doing that, but the Spanish person I was with said it was acceptable, just don't go packing up bushels, etc.)


So who would fight against knowing these things in God's law under Christian society?

Lev 19:31-32
31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

32 Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD.
KJV

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The curse from the law comes from failing to keep it period.

When the law Was given. Moses claimed, Cursed is the one who does not keep every word.

It requires perfection. which means no one has met the standard (all have sinned and fall short) thus everyone is cursed.

The was was not given to show us how to behave it was given to prove our guilt.

 

[robert derrick]

The point of this thread is that the curse of the law is in seeking to keep the law without the Spirit, which is burdensome and grievous to the unregenerated of heart.

The law itself is not cursed, nor the curse, and especially not doing the law is cursed from the outset.

The "law of Christ" Apostle Paul speaks of in Galatians 6 is about how we are to forgive each other's faults, bearing each other's burdens, whereas under the old covenant, our error might have put us in grave danger in breaking God's law.

The law of Christ is what is written as such in Scripture by the apostles, including commandments and points of law against adultery, drunkenness, respect of persons, thefts, etc...

In Christ we are now to minister such law with the Spirit, so that mercy is readily available to them God has forgiven by confession of sinning.

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

The "law of Christ" Apostle Paul speaks of in Galatians 6 is about how we are to forgive each other's faults, bearing each other's burdens, whereas under the old covenant, our error might have put us in grave danger in breaking God's law. For example, being caught under the old covenant as an adulterer the penalty was death. Not under the New Covenant Jesus Christ though. The actual knowledge of the sin did not go away under Christ, but the penalty was changed, adding an element of forgiveness (even though a penalty in divorce might still be administered). Thus the "law of Christ" applied.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The penalty for any soul sinning is still death in being separated from God. It was so in the OT, and it remains so under the New.

The difference now being that man can be purged of past sins with a pure conscience by the blood of the Lamb, which was not possible by that of blood of bulls and goats.

We are no longer national Israel after the flesh, and so the law ofr obdilyu punishment is not enforced. It can be in any Christian community that has power to do so and chooses to: the soul can be forgiven, while the body is killed for adultery.

Thus the law of Christ is applied through the Spirit: even while helping to restore a soul through confession and repentance, the body can still be condemned to death for breaking an enforced law of the community.

Also with God's health laws, that of eating from God's list of unhealthy things, that did not go away, but religious and political penalties for doing so changed. We can eat those things under Christ, but our flesh body still won't be as healthy. In other words, the main reason for God giving those dietary lists was so our body would be healthier.

I don't agree. I don't believe in calling any of the God's law, whether of Moses or Christ, as 'dietary' in nature: God's law is spiritual, righteous, and religious in nature. The laws pertaining to the sanctuary service, clothing, and eating, and drinking were all religious with penalties, and were all spiritual in foreshadowing Christ and the law of His Spirit to come.

So who would fight against knowing these things in God's law under Christian society?

Lev 19:31-32
31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

32 Thou shalt rise up before the hoary head, and honour the face of the old man, and fear thy God: I am the LORD.
KJV

I'm not sure what you mean, but if I lived in a place where they wanted to make such laws, then I would either abide by them or be punished bodily for it.

I wouldn't however be sinning against Christ, because He only judges the soul by His law.

Nor do I consider obeying to the letter every law of man as some kind of duty to Caesar. I obey God in my spirit and my flesh, and if I choose to not obey man's laws, that I consider stupid, or especially heinous, then that's my choice to take responsibility for.

 

[robert derrick]

The curse from the law comes from failing to keep it period.

True. Sinning and transgressing against the law of Christ is still death of the soul.

And the thread includes the truth that even in keeping the law outwardly, if it is without faith from the heart, then the law is still a cursed burden to have to bear, and the heart that hates doing it outwardly, is still guilty of it.

Jesus came to deliver from both: transgressing the law, and only doing the letter of the law without the Spirit.

When the law Was given. Moses claimed, Cursed is the one who does not keep every word.

It requires perfection. which means no one has met the standard (all have sinned and fall short) thus everyone is cursed.

Of course, you neglect to mention Jesus the man, which is telling. Many people seek to worship Him as God, but only idolize His life as a man in mortal flesh, and say it is not possible to be righteous as He was in the days of His flesh.

The reason of course being an excuse not to do so.

The was was not given to show us how to behave it was given to prove our guilt.

And still does. The one sinning against the law of Christ is guilty before Christ and is dead to God.

Including them that keep it outwardly only, while hating it inwardly.

Being wed to someone as by law only, just waiting for the spouse to die, so as to marry another, is not a marriage honored by God.

It is the same with sinners seeking to be wed with Christ inwardly, but hating to do His law outwardly, only waiting for their mortal bodes to die for sake of resurrection.

Only them loving to do His law, being cleansed and purified in spirit and flesh, have part in His body on earth, and shall have part in His resurrection and marriage supper in the end:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Davy]

The point of this thread is that the curse of the law is in seeking to keep the law without the Spirit, which is burdensome and grievous to the unregenerated of heart.

The law itself is not cursed, nor the curse, and especially not doing the law is cursed from the outset.

The actual truth from God's written Word about the law though, and why it was a curse per the old covenant, because they couldn't keep it, was to show us that the law cannot save anyone. So it is the idea of seeking to be justified by the law which is actually what the 'curse of the law' is about. Paul explained this in Galatians 3.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True. Sinning and transgressing against the law of Christ is still death of the soul.

And the thread includes the truth that even in keeping the law outwardly, if it is without faith from the heart, then the law is still a cursed burden to have to bear, and the heart that hates doing it outwardly, is still guilty of it.

Jesus came to deliver from both: transgressing the law, and only doing the letter of the law without the Spirit.

NO ONE CAN KEEP THE LAW.

so in fact, the thread is not true. It does not matter if you try to keep it by faith, inwardly or outwardly. We are still sinning and falling short.

Of course, you neglect to mention Jesus the man, which is telling. Many people seek to worship Him as God, but only idolize His life as a man in mortal flesh, and say it is not possible to be righteous as He was in the days of His flesh.

The reason of course being an excuse not to do so.

This is non responsive. Moses said cursed is the one who does not obey every word. Paul repeated those words in Galatians three.

You can't keep the law. period

And still does. The one sinning against the law of Christ is guilty before Christ and is dead to God.

Including them that keep it outwardly only, while hating it inwardly.

Once again you can;t keep the law. Cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey EVERY WORD..

Being wed to someone as by law only, just waiting for the spouse to die, so as to marry another, is not a marriage honored by God.

It is the same with sinners seeking to be wed with Christ inwardly, but hating to do His law outwardly, only waiting for their mortal bodes to die for sake of resurrection.

Only them loving to do His law, being cleansed and purified in spirit and flesh, have part in His body on earth, and shall have part in His resurrection and marriage supper in the end:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you think you are righteous and keep the law. You are in trouble. Seek Christ. wqhere the law was supposed to lead you

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

being caught under the old covenant as an adulterer the penalty was death. Not under the New Covenant Jesus Christ though.

How absurd!
What an insult to the holiness of Jesus Christ!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How absurd!
What an insult to the holiness of Jesus Christ!

Actually he is correct.

Under the law the adulterer and adulteress were to be stoned.

Under the new. That is no longer true, thats why when they brought the harlot to Jesus he said let he who has no sin cast the first stone

 

[robert derrick]

and why it was a curse per the old covenant, because they couldn't keep it, .

I'm finding this traditional thinking is not ringing true anymore.

Where in God's law or prophecy of Scripture, did God ever say, "I am commanding you this day, which I know you cannot keep"??

We hear so often the blanket statement that none of the people of God can keep His commandments at all times, and yet all His people are commanded to do so, if they will love Him and will be His people.

I reject this Christian faith-only tradition, which the Jews never would have even suggested.

God did not make an unjust and cursed law that none of His people could possibly do, just so He could then condemn them for not doing so.

That is the same false accusation against God of creating man with sin nature, and then condemning man for sinning accordingly: man is not born with sin nature, nor is God's law undoable.

God never condemns any man in Scripture for keeping His law, but only for not doing so.

The error of the Jews was not, not keeping the law: they were not all harlots and thieves etc...Paul declared his blamelessness in the law.

The error and curse of keeping the law is only if it is kept in letter, but not kept in spirit from a pure heart and love for the law.

As James points out: How can we bless man with the lips, while cursing him with the heart? It's not possible to do so, and be justified with God.

That is why we commit adultery already, if we lust to do so in the heart.

Jesus came to cleanse the heart first, that His people may keep the law blamelessly in deed and in truth, and not in appearance only.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

We are to obey the law of Christ in spirit and in body, and not in body only. And them not even doing the law in body are not even in the running of Christ at all.

Sinners with the flesh need to be saved, while Christians with unclean hearts need to be purified within.

The greatest lie of the devil about the doctrine of grace and faith, is that doing the law as written is become a curse and sin of 'unbelief'.

If we are not spiritually pure, then we are not to cease doing the law outwardly, but rather to continue doing the law, until we purify ourselves by power of Christ within, so that we may cleanse ourselves in spirit and in body, and not in body only:

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

to show us that the law cannot save anyone. So it is the idea of seeking to be justified by the law which is actually what the 'curse of the law' is about. Paul explained this in Galatians 3.

You are correct in not being justified by the law only, because we must be justified by Christ within, who is the Lawgiver and Spirit of the law.

The only error and curse of doing the law is without the Spirit.

With man, we are justified by not breaking the law outwardly, but not with God who is Spirit first, then He became flesh.

And man, like angels, are the same, We are created spiritual beings first, then we are wrapped a little lower than the angels in mortal flesh.

The reformation of Christ is to draw man back to His Spirit first, that we may do His law righteously in the flesh.

 

[robert derrick]

How absurd!
What an insult to the holiness of Jesus Christ!

The error is that of carnal mindedness.

The penalty for adultery is still death, which is spiritual death of the soul.

And that death is first by spiritual lusting within.

In the OT, they only killed the body for committing adultery, but in the NT, the soul is dead before the body commits the act: the law of Christ is greater and more commanding of the spirit, than the law of Moses that commands the flesh only.

And if a Christian community kills the body for adultery, then they would not be wrong, since the law of God once declared it just.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The error is that of carnal mindedness.

The penalty for adultery is still death, which is spiritual death of the soul.

And that death is first by spiritual lusting within.

In the OT, they only killed the body for committing adultery, but in the NT, the soul is dead before the body commits the act: the law of Christ is greater and more commanding of the spirit, than the law of Moses that commands the flesh only.

And if a Christian community kills the body for adultery, then they would not be wrong, since the law of God once declared it just.

the penalty of sin is death.

How many death penalties do you have against you since birth? I think if you stop to think. You will realise why people fall on their face in the site of even an angel..

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Doing the Law's work Christ makes us sense our lostness, so that without Him God is against us, and in Him, God is The Law for us.

 

[robert derrick]

Actually he is correct.

Under the law the adulterer and adulteress were to be stoned.

Under the new. That is no longer true, thats why when they brought the harlot to Jesus he said let he who has no sin cast the first stone

Jesus did not do away with any death penalty. He prevented the law from being hypocritically used, while also prophesying of the forgiveness through faith to come.

Man can still have the death penalty for the body, even if the soul is saved by the Lord beforehand.

Scripture never forbids killing the body for adultery, murder, rebellious youth...

 

[robert derrick]

the penalty of sin is death.

How many death penalties do you have against you since birth?

One. Once sinning is all it takes. If it becomes by nature, it is still the same death for the first sinning.

There is only the death penalty, not death penalties.

I think if you stop to think. You will realise why people fall on their face in the site of even an angel..

Not sure what you mean here, but I haven't and don't plan on worshipping angels, which Paul rebukes, and lesson learned from John.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus did not do away with any death penalty. He prevented the law from being hypocritically used, while also prophesying of the forgiveness through faith to come.

Man can still have the death penalty for the body, even if the soul is saved by the Lord beforehand.

Scripture never forbids killing the body for adultery, murder, rebellious youth...

The people brought the harlot to Jesus. According to the law she was to be STONED.

Jesus said let he who has no sin cast the first stone.

They all walked away. Because unlike some people. they admit they are not innocent.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

One. Once sinning is all it takes. If it becomes by nature, it is still the same death for the first sinning.

There is only the death penalty, not death penalties.

the penalty of sin is death

If I lie, My penalty is death,
If I commit adulty, the penalty of that sin is death
If I know to do right, yet do not do it, the penalty of that sin is death.

To deny you have multiple death penalties against you is to deny you have sin,

Not sure what you mean here, but I haven't and don't plan on worshipping angels, which Paul rebukes, and lesson learned from John.

who said anything about worshiping angels? if you read the bible you will see many a person who fell flat in the presnece of the angel because they were not worthy. The angel had to tell them to get up.

 

[robert derrick]

the penalty of sin is death

If I lie, My penalty is death,
If I commit adulty, the penalty of that sin is death
If I know to do right, yet do not do it, the penalty of that sin is death.

To deny you have multiple death penalties against you is to deny you have sin,


who said anything about worshiping angels? if you read the bible you will see many a person who fell flat in the presnece of the angel because they were not worthy. The angel had to tell them to get up.

When you show me Scripture for death 'penalties', and not just mental math, then I'll consider what you say.

In the meantime, the only ones having sin are those lusting to have it.

Now, if it's falling flat before the Lord, no problem.

 

[robert derrick]

The people brought the harlot to Jesus. According to the law she was to be STONED.

Jesus said let he who has no sin cast the first stone.

They all walked away. Because unlike some people. they admit they are not innocent.

The teaching of Jesus to have mercy on them repentant, does not do away with the death penalty to the body.

Even for the repentant.

And the death penalty for sinning remains: death to the soul.

No one sinning is alive to Christ, but dead with the devil.