God covers us with His righteousness:

[RichardBurger]

God covers us with His righteousness:


Isaiah 61:10
10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
NKJV

It is God that covers sinful men/women with His righteousness.

Romans 3:8-26
8 And why not say, "Let us do evil that good may come"? — as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

(All Have Sinned (Psalms 14:1-3; 53:1-4))

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

(God's Righteousness Through Faith)

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
NKJV

 

[Prentis]

To work for salvation means to try and be saved by works. It does not mean we do not do works.

Otherwise Paul contradicts himself when he tells us we were called for good works. We draw near to God by faith, by this we are safe. But to be near to him requires obedience.

1 Corinthians 4:2
Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.

Hebrews 5:9
And (Jesus) having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

 

[prism]

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:4-5)
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
(Gal 3:1-3)

 

[Vengle]

When we understand that the words of Paul and the words of James do not conflict, then we know we finally understand.

Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."

James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

And the answer is not that Paul was speaking to Gentiles whereas James was speaking to Jews. That changes nothing.

What we have here with Paul is one of the places wherein Peter said that their beloved brother Paul often spoke in words hard to understand which the untaught and the unsteady twisted to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Knowing that Peter warned us of that, we ought to doubt our interpretation of what Paul says much quicker than we doubt our interpretation of what James says.
Sadly, some do even worse than that. They doubt the inspiration of one or the other, totally dismissing what they told us.

The over-whelming bulk of the scriptures in both the Old and the New Testaments supports what James said. So how then do we correctly understand what Paul is speaking about in Romans chapter 4?

We must very closely follow the context of chapter 2 through chapter 4 to grasp what Paul means. Paul is the one relating to Jews here. James was speaking general principle. James was dealing with those who thought they were justified without any involvement of work on their own part. Paul is dealing with those who understand that they need works but think that their works makes them special above others. These ones are in effect by their attitude justifying themselves. And that demonstrates that they do not fully appreciate the need of Christ's opening the door to justification for them.

Romans 3:27 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith."

Home in on what Paul said there in Romans 3:27. Paul is explaining why their cause for boasting has been excluded. And what excluded that cause for boasting? Faith excluded that cause for boasting.

Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."
God could have just looked at the works Abraham did and on the basis of those works he could have then declared Abraham justified. But here is what Paul knew: The works a man performs at any given moment in time can be temporary. Just because a man does good works one minute does not mean he will the next. And God was looking to see something that indicated those good works would continue. That something is faith which works by love just as he told the Galatians at Galatians 5:6.

I have pointed out in other threads the many the scriptures are that say it is our love for God and neighbor that keeps us obedient. Jesus plainly told us that and so did all of the New Testament Bible writers. Paul told us that as often or more often than even John who was Jesus' beloved disciple. So how does that work, again, it is faith that worketh by love.

The mistake many make in their interpretation of 2 Corinthians 5:14 is that they see it as saying only that it is Christ's love that does this for us. How, though? By our putting on Christ through faith that his love becomes our love. It yet holds true as John said tha "we love because he loved us first".

Are you getting the sense of this yet? there is so much that I could bring out of the context of Romans chapters 2 through 4 that I cannot do it all in this one comment. So I will finish this comment by saying that what Paul is saying there in Romans chapters 2 through 4 is that be it not for faith God would not have given our works any consideration. Be it not for faith would would have remained as dead in God's eyes. Paul is dealing with our need to see that we have no cause to gloat in our works. James was dealing with those who thought because God chose to first justify our faith that they did not need works.

Ponder this. Don't dismiss it quickly.

 

[Prentis]

Excellent post Vengle!

 

[RichardBurger]

God covers us with His righteousness:
The self-righteousness of those trying to do works to earn righteousness is an afront to what Jesus did on the cross.

 

[Prentis]

God covers us with His righteousness:
The self-righteousness of those trying to do works to earn righteousness is an afront to what Jesus did on the cross.

The disobedience in the name of 'faith' is an afront to his commands.

Richard, the error is to justify one self by the law. But it also says 'it is the doers of the law who are justified'.

The mistake is not to think one is justified by obedience, but to count one's obedience and justify oneself by it. Only God justifies, and thus we obey in faith and hope that indeed... We will be received!

 

[RichardBurger]

The disobedience in the name of 'faith' is an afront to his commands.

Richard, the error is to justify one self by the law. But it also says 'it is the doers of the law who are justified'.

The mistake is not to think one is justified by obedience, but to count one's obedience and justify oneself by it. Only God justifies, and thus we obey in faith and hope that indeed... We will be received!

My question to you is this, "Does God cover us with His righteousness or not?"

　
This is the subject of this thread and you are on here preaching your gospel of works.

Every time I post about the gospel that saves us you are on it like a fly preaching works in the in the name of obedience. Why is that?

You know very well that in this age of grace obedience is keeping your faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, not in rule keeping.

The scriptures tell us that in this age of grace "GOD COVERS US WITH HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS" and you just can't seem to agree with it. Why is that?

You can't agree with anything I say. That is why I can see through you. You are not hear to preach Paul's gospel of grace. You are here to take away the freedom we have in Christ and place us under works.

I see no grace in your teachings.

 

[RichardBurger]

Richard, the error is to justify one self by the law. But it also says 'it is the doers of the law who are justified'.

Romans 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
NKJV

Romans 2:19-24
19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law.
21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal?
22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?
24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written.
NKJV

Romans 3:19-22
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

God's Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
NKJV

 

[Prentis]

If by grace, you mean a free pass, then there is no grace of this kind in what I tell you, if by grace you mean the power of God unto salvation, then that is found in God.

Notice, 'You who make your BOAST in the law'. By this very boasting one betrays himself, and shows his true colors. Do you use that scripture to deny that 'it is the doers of the law who are justified? They are in harmony. Paul, as seen in those verses, is speaking to those who are self-righteous in attitude, and justify THEMSELVES by the law, rather than obeying and letting God be their judge.

The righteousness apart from the law is not less, but more than the righteousness of the law. It is higher. It makes perfect sense when we understand that the law is a tutor to Christ; it teaches us (1) to be obedient and (2) that we are weak, and have need of having a repentant attitude and being humble.

But in Christ, we become like him, not by a free pass, but by the power of God to change us. IF we obey and follow him, he tests us through the fire to refine our character so that we would reflect him. The righteousness that is according to the law pertains to life. But if one aims to be as Christ, one must walk after the Spirit rather than the flesh. What Paul is excluding is to think that frace, the power of God in us to be as he is, has anything to do with our trying to be righteous. It has everything to do with giving way to God, that he might live in us.

The gospel is about 'it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me'; the new creation. In this is revealed the righteousness of God, according to which all have fallen short. The gospel is about God replacing OUR weakness with HIS strength when we submit, and then, he lives through us.

 

[Vengle]

That Isaiah 61:10 is fulfilled gradually by the process described at Ephesians 5:25-27

And what we see in Isaiah 61:10 is that it switches from speaking future tense to speaking historic present tense or sure victory present tense.

In other words even when God is yet in the process of recreating it is seen as as good as done for he will without fail accomplish it.

 

[Prentis]

That Isaiah 61:10 is fulfilled gradually by the process described at Ephesians 5:25-27

And what we see in Isaiah 61:10 is that it switches from speaking future tense to speaking historic present tense or sure victory present tense.

In other words even when God is yet in the process of recreating it is seen as as good as done for he will without fail accomplish it.

Yes! It is a process, we are invited to be part of it... And those who endure faithfully will be. Many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[RichardBurger]

My question to all of you was/is this, "Does God cover us with His righteousness or not?"

The scriptures that these people say they believe says that God covers His children with His righteousness. But these people refuse to see it and it is hard for those that refuse to see it to acknowledge that the scriptures say this. That is why they won't answer the question without putting in the word """BUT"".

No one has addressed this question. All they have done is say that God can only save a person if that person can keep rules and regulations just as the Jews were supposed to do under the Law of Moses. The Jews couldn't keep it and neither can we.

Paul taught that we are not under law, but grace. These people do not understand God's grace poured out on mankind because mankind can not save him/her self by being good and keeping laws while living in a body of sinful flesh.

All they are doing is trying to place everyone under rules and laws.

To the child of God, hold on to your freedom in Christ. A person is saved today by faith PLUS nothing, by faith in God's work on the cross, Jesus sent Paul as His Apostle to the Gentiles. Use his writings as your basis of salvation.

 

[Prentis]

No one is saved through dead faith, 'faith plus nothing'.

Even you, because you believe, you obey, don't you?

We are indeed given God's righteousness, but in a far more real sense than just a figurative imagination, or a positional receiving, but rather we receive it in reality, that we would walk in it. We are given the new creation, Christ in us, that we might no longer live for he lusts of men, but for the will of God.

By his grace, God works in us to will and to do his good pleasure, that is, if we are faithful to him and seek his face. Thus we are saved by grace through faith (pistis - fidelity, faith, faithfulness).

 

[RichardBurger]

No one is saved through dead faith, 'faith plus nothing'.

Even you, because you believe, you obey, don't you?

We are indeed given God's righteousness, but in a far more real sense than just a figurative imagination, or a positional receiving, but rather we receive it in reality, that we would walk in it. We are given the new creation, Christ in us, that we might no longer live for he lusts of men, but for the will of God.

By his grace, God works in us to will and to do his good pleasure, that is, if we are faithful to him and seek his face. Thus we are saved by grace through faith (pistis - fidelity, faith, faithfulness).

Foolishness! All you are saying is that the righteousness that God give us is not enough. We must become self-righteous by our works of rule keeping.

The fruits we are to have is trying to win the lost to place their faith in the work of God and you are not doing that. All you are doing is elevating man's work over the work of God on the cross.

You said; "Even you, because you believe, you obey, don't you?" You just can't resist making this about me can you!

-- To obey is to do as God (Jesus) told Paul, that is to place your belief, faith, trust, confidence in the FINISHED work of Jesus on the cross. But you want to make others place their faith in what they do to be saved and it will not do so. Your message will not save anyone.

Romans 4:5-8
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
NKJV

Apart from works Prentis. Can't you see it?

 

[jiggyfly]

Yes! It is a process, we are invited to be part of it... And those who endure faithfully will be. Many are called, but few are chosen.

What of babies, small children and those with mental disabilities?

 

[Prentis]

Foolishness! All you are saying is that the righteousness that God give us is not enough. We must become self-righteous by our works of rule keeping.

The fruits we are to have is trying to win the lost to place their faith in the work of God and you are not doing that. All you are doing is elevating man's work over the work of God on the cross.

You said; "Even you, because you believe, you obey, don't you?" You just can't resist making this about me can you!

-- To obey is to do as God (Jesus) told Paul, that is to place your belief, faith, trust, confidence in the FINISHED work of Jesus on the cross. But you want to make others place their faith in what they do to be saved and it will not do so. Your message will not save anyone.

Romans 4:5-8
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin."
NKJV

Apart from works Prentis. Can't you see it?

No, what I am saying is that we must clothe ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, put on the armor of light, and overcome... By his power.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

John 10:37
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Can a man hate his brother and yet love God? Can two walk together unless they agree? Christ has become the source of salvation to all who obey.

Was it a dead work when Abraham put his son on the altar out of faith? Is it a dead work if a man crucify the flesh out of faith?

We are brought INTO the new covenant apart from works, but we are called for good works, and to become obedient. We are given new life if we repent and believe, apart from works, but unless we put this talent to produce more, we will be cast out. The branch that does not bear fruit is cut off.

What of babies, small children and those with mental disabilities?

Too often, we ask those questions because we desire to be able to judge and say 'he's saved, he's not, he's this, he's that'. It would be wiser to leave the judgment up to God.

I do not know how God judges this, or what he will decide to do, but I know he is just and loving. What we know is that he has mercy on the weak, and elevates the humble... How he will judge? That is up to him! We should not even judge our own selves, how much less all those around us.

 

[Prentis]

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
You speak of the beginning, Richard, as though it were the end. But it is only the beginning. After repentance comes growth, and life in Christ Jesus, we in him, and he in us!

 

[RichardBurger]

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
You speak of the beginning, Richard, as though it were the end. But it is only the beginning. After repentance comes growth, and life in Christ Jesus, we in him, and he in us!

Of course you will say this because, to you, God's work on the cross was not finished. You think we have to finish it. When a child of God places their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work of Jesus (God) on the cross they are saved and can't be more saved. It is finished for the child of God. They have entered God's rest and have rested from their works just as God rested from His.

Hebrews 4:10-11
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
NKJV


You preach progressive salvation, a work in progress. The scriptures don't teach this for the child of God. Salvation is finished for those that have been made children of God, by God.

Romans 8:14-17
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out,"Abba, Father."
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.
NKJV

A finished work of God!

1 Corinthians 6:11-12
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
NKJV

 

[Prentis]

It is true of all those who are faithful. The finished work of Christ is only the beginning of ours. HIS finished work is our reconciliation, our work is to 'Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.'
We are the one fighting and laying hold on eternal life, which he made available by his finished work, and to which he called us.

Colossians 1:24
[ Sacrificial Service for Christ ] I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,