Very interesting thoughts you have there, I don't agree of course with much of it but thanks for sharing.Not all are called to holiness no. Since you ask, I will lay it out, a simple 'yes and no' answer would not suffice.
As per the book of revelations, there are two books, and two ressurections, and two judgements. The first ressurection is that of those in Christ, and there the Lamb's book of life is opened. This is the judgment of the house of God. Some here go to glory, and some to shame. Some to honor, some to dishonor.
The second ressurection is that of the nations, as it says in revelation, and there the book of life is opened (not the LAMB's book of life). As Jesus tells us of this judgment, some go to eternal life (not glory) and some taste the second death (not shame).
So as to this there are four destinies. God is no respecter of persons, and I believe whoever seeks him with all their heart will find him. Also, if a man does what is right, though he knows not God, as the sheep in the parable of that judgment, he goes to life. On the other hand, God also calls people, he goes to seek them. He gives them more, but then they are responsible for more. This is also why there is such a great 'armianism vs. calvinism' debate. Both are true; if we seek God we find him, and he will come seeking after us. Both ways, what we do with what is given us matters.
God can call anyone, a mentally disabled person, a child... The weak things of this world can be his choice vessels. As Paul says, who are we to argue with what he decides to do with us? But in the face of that, we are responsible for what we do.
God covers us with His righteousness:
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Where in Corinthians does it say that the majority was not mature?
1 Corinthians 1:4 "I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Prentis
New Member
Well OK, I will answer my own question then 
"But then we must also ask, "Why does it say "many are called" instead of saying "all are called"?"
Its not that God doesn't call out to everyone.
It is that not everyone is willing to hear his call.
And of those many that do hear his call, many just drag their feet and never make it to the finish line, and many drop out of the race all together.
Thus few end up being chosen (as winners of that race, one winner in Christ).
It is a thing similar to the words come and go in Spanish.
In Spanish to say "I am coming" is what Americans mean when they say "I am going", and visa-verse.
"But then we must also ask, "Why does it say "many are called" instead of saying "all are called"?"
Its not that God doesn't call out to everyone.
It is that not everyone is willing to hear his call.
And of those many that do hear his call, many just drag their feet and never make it to the finish line, and many drop out of the race all together.
Thus few end up being chosen (as winners of that race, one winner in Christ).
It is a thing similar to the words come and go in Spanish.
In Spanish to say "I am coming" is what Americans mean when they say "I am going", and visa-verse.
If you would like to discuss Rom 11:32 start a new thread Im sure it will get some good responses.
1 Dear brothers and sisters, when I was with you I couldn’t talk to you as I would to spiritual people. I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in the Christian life. 2 I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready,3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?
1 Cor 3:1-3 (NLT)
One subject at a time.
I know that 1 Cor 3:1-3 seems like all of them but it was not. What you are witnessing there is the body of Christ bearing the sins of their brothers upon them in imitation of Christ. The mature and the babes being spoken to the same. That is how it is done for the benefit of the babes instead of singling them out and making them feel like outcasts.
That is how love works. We bear the sins of those that are weak.
The Bible in Basic English is right to render 1 Corinthians 1:12 as it does.: 1 Corinthians 1:12 That is, that some of you say, I am of Paul; some say, I am of Apollos; some say, I am of Cephas; and some say, I am Christ's.
It fits well the Greek grammar that was used. And Paul obviously did not mean Crispus and Gaius whom he baptized were doing this.
Proof is like beauty in that it both must be presented and perceived.
Take that first verse you cited as your proof and let's discuss they ways to view it:
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV
I left it highlighted as you highlighted it.
Do not take offense at my use of the word assume, for we all assume things in our deductions as a means of examining the possibilities.
(1) In your mind you assume that the whole group is faltering in immaturity.
(2) You have therefore assumed then that "were" means the whole group.
(3) And you also then assume that this means they are yet faltering in immaturity and while in that condition are sanctified and justified in Christ.
With all the assuming that is necessary to postulate theories and search for answers we should not be too hard on our self when it turns out we are wrong. Better to be tough on our self about being unwilling to search further, for in many assumptions there is without fail many errors.
1 Corinthians 6:11
11 "And such were some of you. .........."
[And of that some of you who were but are now not:]
"But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
That "some of you" completed the three step process of (1) being washed (2) being sanctified (3) being justified.
And therefore they are an example to the remainder who have not yet done so.
You can copy this way of examining your impressions of scriptures if you are willing to struggle a little with trying to see in your mind's eye different ways to look at the verse or verses.
After a while you will have built up a sufficient number of ways to look at each scripture that you will be able to select the undistorted pieces to the puzzle and put the puzzle together yourself.
If I simply tell you, you will hardly believe me because you cannot see it.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
There are three directions to look at that verse and I did not elaborate on all of them. For practice try to see it from all of them.
(1) Paul is viewing it as the group yet has many who are yet immature and have not yet completed that three step process. But only "some of you" have.
(2) Paul is saying the whole group is yet immature but have been saved in Christ. (In which case why only "some of you"?)
(3) Paul is saying that the whole group is now mature, washed, sanctified, and justified as the "some of you" that were not, now have become so.
I find (1) to be the undistorted piece of the puzzle.
First let's set things straight, I did not cite 1Cor.6:11, I quoted 1Cor. 3:1-3(NLT) only and never highlighted any of it.
Now why don't you try again and I will wait for you to post some proof rather than speculation.
Vengle is confused. I am the one that posted that verse with words hightlighted. Vengle doesn't know the the word WERE mean that the Holy Spirit sealed the children of God and that salvation HAS been completed for the child of God. He speculates to much.
11 In Him also """"we have obtained an inheritance,"""" being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
Prentis
New Member
The children of Israel had the promised land as an inheritance. God was ready to deliver it up to them, and it was theirs!
But except for Caleb and Joshua, they did not walk by faith, and because of this, they did not enter. Our inheritance is Christ, already, if we are his children, he is with us to a degree. We have made alive in the Spirit, but now it is required that we walk in the Spirit.
Unless we daily walk by faith, we will not attain to our hope, which is Christ. Paul himself considered not that he had attained, but rather forgot everything that was behind and pressed on to attain Christ. He also said we should walk by the measure we have already attained. What this reveals is that there is space for growth, according to OUR attaining. Yes, it is the grace of God that works within us, but it does so AS we obey in faith. As it says, it is by faith that we have access to grace.
The work of Christ on the cross is the end of HIS work, thus he says 'it is finished' in the same manner as God rested on the 7th day of creation. Now we must run our race, until we enter his rest.
But except for Caleb and Joshua, they did not walk by faith, and because of this, they did not enter. Our inheritance is Christ, already, if we are his children, he is with us to a degree. We have made alive in the Spirit, but now it is required that we walk in the Spirit.
Unless we daily walk by faith, we will not attain to our hope, which is Christ. Paul himself considered not that he had attained, but rather forgot everything that was behind and pressed on to attain Christ. He also said we should walk by the measure we have already attained. What this reveals is that there is space for growth, according to OUR attaining. Yes, it is the grace of God that works within us, but it does so AS we obey in faith. As it says, it is by faith that we have access to grace.
The work of Christ on the cross is the end of HIS work, thus he says 'it is finished' in the same manner as God rested on the 7th day of creation. Now we must run our race, until we enter his rest.
Helen
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The disobedience in the name of 'faith' is an afront to his commands.
Richard, the error is to justify one self by the law. But it also says 'it is the doers of the law who are justified'.
The mistake is not to think one is justified by obedience, but to count one's obedience and justify oneself by it. Agree Only God justifies, and thus we obey in faith and hope that indeed... We will be received!
Your Quote.."Doers of the law are justified.."
I just re-read that chapter. I think the bottom line problem was that the some were continuing to look at the old law...and resisted the truth that Jesus established the NEW..all others are fulfilled in ...LOVE GOD, LOVE NEIGHBOUR...
Maybe today still feel that somehow this is too easy , therefore feel 'they' have to work hard to still fulfill the ten commandments.
Personally I don't find in my flesh that it is easy to fulfill the NEW!! LOVE is always the bottom line....that is what Jesus established as far as I read scripture. Love is not always my first response, therefore I throw myself of my helper the Holy Spirit within...I , in myself fall short all the time. Praise God for His loving mercy in time of need.
We HAVE the Victory...through Jesus Christ...not that we have yet attained to the fullness.
Bless you.
Prentis
New Member
The new is greater than the old, the calling in it is higher. In the old, we are to love God, and love our neighbor as ourself, now we must love as HE loved. This does not destroy the old, but fulfill it, and build on it. But in both the old and the new, we are called to obey.
Blessings to you also
Since you are bold enough to say such things about me as ought to not be imagined, I will tell you about what I see about how you error with Ephesians 1:11.
You see it as the individual when the fact is that the word "we" is a plural pronoun in the Greek and means the group.
You need to polish up in your knowledge of Greek AND start using that knowledge instead of pulling your interpretations of your shirt cuff.
The group is the one body of Christ.
It is part of the phrase just as you highlighted and the entire phrase is plural.
It is part of the phrase just as you highlighted and the entire phrase is plural.
I got a laugh out of this one. You have been on all my threads BOLDLY proclaiming that God did not finish the work of salvation for us we have to do it ourselves and I have BOLDLY fought you on this idea of Yours.
So do you think that if you are in the right GROUP you will be okay? I think you will be greatly disappointed. According to the scripture EACH man/woman will stand before Jesus to be judged. You will not be able to say "I did not know and I just followed the ideas of men."
Off my cuff you say. In everything I post I give more scripture to support it than you do what you post. Unlike you, I believe the words that God has provided in the scriptures state exactly what God wanted us to see. I believe it is you that needs to polish up you understanding and use the words in scriptutre just as they are. There is no need to make them say something other than what they say.
Have it your way Richard
You already know, so there is no point to my trying to tell you.
Right?
May you have peace with God.
You already know, so there is no point to my trying to tell you.
Right?
May you have peace with God.
Prentis
New Member
We do not believe his word when we say that what he has done is the end of OUR race, because the word says WE must run our race, WE must walk by faith.
The idea that 'God has done it all, I don't have to obey' go in the opposite direction of the gospel. The gospel calls us to seek, attain, and be conformed to Christ.
Anything less than going after the fulness in Christ falls short of what we are supposed to aim for.
[sup]1[/sup] Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [sup]2[/sup] of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [sup]3[/sup] And this we will[sup][a][/sup] do if God permits.
The idea that 'God has done it all, I don't have to obey' go in the opposite direction of the gospel. The gospel calls us to seek, attain, and be conformed to Christ.
Anything less than going after the fulness in Christ falls short of what we are supposed to aim for.
[sup]1[/sup] Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [sup]2[/sup] of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [sup]3[/sup] And this we will[sup][a][/sup] do if God permits.
Have it your way Richard
You already know, so there is no point to my trying to tell you.
Right?
May you have peace with God.
As you can see what I have learned is not of men because most men refuse to believe it. This has always been true for the men of God that teach God's grace. It was taught to me by the Holy Spirit.
No, there is no point in your telling me. I know I am a child of God because I believe God (Jesus). Jesus sent Paul with a mesage that Paul said was hidden in God. But men refuse to accept that it was hidden in God. They rationalize that the gospel of grace was always the gospel. But they can't prove it.
The RCC built a church on the 12 Apostles but the 12 went to the Jews only. Paul was the Apostle sent to the world but the religious refuse to hear him.
I have asked you before inmany ways, "just how are you running your race?"
Hebrews 6:1-6
6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this we will do if God permits.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV
The only way we crucify Jesus again is if we believe His work on the cross was not enough. That is an afront to Him.
We are to build our faith in His works on the cross. That is going on to perfection; perfection "in Christ".
But you want us to think that our works to make ourselves righteous is making us obtain perfection. I disagree with you.
In the eyes of God every child of God is perfect "in Christ" and we were (past tense) placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit when we trusted in Him.
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