The WRATH of God poured out on Christ … where?

[atpollard]

I believe enough scripture has been provided to establish limited atonement, and to deny it, is simply a betrayal of the efficacy of Christs death, there just no alternative my friend, no matter how coy you want to be about it.

What post # provides scripture establishing limited atonement? I just reread the topic and could not find it. Certainly no post by you presents a scriptural case for your position. You just keep making sweeping claims.

I will offer for you, just a handful of verses for you to explain why “all men” cannot mean ALL men so that anyone that dares to believe that “all men” means ALL men must be a heretic:

• John 12:32 [NASB95] "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.
• Romans 5:18 [NASB95] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
  
• 1 Timothy 2:1 [NASB95] First of all, then, I urge that entreaties [and] prayers, petitions [and] thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
• 1 Timothy 2:4 [NASB95] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
• 1 Timothy 4:10 [NASB95] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
  
• Titus 2:11 [NASB95] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

It is one thing to disagree with the exegesis of verses by another.
It is something different to accuse those that disagree with you of betraying the Cross.
Now I have provided verses to support the POSSIBILITY that Jesus died for more than just the elect. Time for you to point to these verses that you claim prove that Jesus ONLY died for the Elect.

 

[atpollard]

Did you notice the question mark in the thread title?

Yes.
I put it there.

Where does the Bible say that the WRATH of God was poured out on Christ, as so many claim from pulpits? That was the point raised in the OP.

 

[quietthinker]

Eph 5:
[2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

if we interpret 'sacrifice' as death, what is so sweet a savour about that?
God gave Jesus to us for life and we gave him back dead.....or did he kill himself?

 

[quietthinker]

quietthinker



Yes it is and you should be ashamed !



Im already familiar with those scriptures, not interested in your manipulation of them to prove a false premise you should be ashamed of.

I notice you use the word 'should' a couple of times. I suppose that means you think you have the authority to tell me how I am to feel and think.
Is that because you cow-tow to those who tell you how to feel and think?
Does God tell you how to feel and think? If not, who would it be that engages that strategy?

 

[brightfame52]

What post # provides scripture establishing limited atonement? I just reread the topic and could not find it. Certainly no post by you presents a scriptural case for your position. You just keep making sweeping claims.

I will offer for you, just a handful of verses for you to explain why “all men” cannot mean ALL men so that anyone that dares to believe that “all men” means ALL men must be a heretic:

• John 12:32 [NASB95] "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.
• Romans 5:18 [NASB95] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
  
• 1 Timothy 2:1 [NASB95] First of all, then, I urge that entreaties [and] prayers, petitions [and] thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
• 1 Timothy 2:4 [NASB95] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
• 1 Timothy 4:10 [NASB95] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
  
• Titus 2:11 [NASB95] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

It is one thing to disagree with the exegesis of verses by another.
It is something different to accuse those that disagree with you of betraying the Cross.
Now I have provided verses to support the POSSIBILITY that Jesus died for more than just the elect. Time for you to point to these verses that you claim prove that Jesus ONLY died for the Elect.

All those verses are limited atonement. Like I said to deny limited atonement is to be against the effectiveness of the saving death of Christ. That's not good friend

 

[brightfame52]

I notice you use the word 'should' a couple of times. I suppose that means you think you have the authority to tell me how I am to feel and think.
Is that because you cow-tow to those who tell you how to feel and think?
Does God tell you how to feel and think? If not, who would it be that engages that strategy?

You should be ashamed. Everyone is not God's elect , that is a obvious false teaching.

 

[Taken]

if we interpret 'sacrifice' as death, what is so sweet a savour about that?
God gave Jesus to us for life and we gave him back dead.....or did he kill himself?

All mankind’s Flesh WILL die, MUST die. God requires it.
The kicker is:
A man who becomes BORN AGAIN (which only is possible AFTER a bodily death), IS Gods inheritance, and that is the Sweet Savour unto God.

Jesus filled many purposes when He was Sent to Earth.
~ one being a mans example of HOW TO exist on this Earth and be KEPT from, the enticements of wicked men and evil spirits.
~ another how to, be assured to forever be with the Lord God Almighty.

Would you suppose many men, are still Vacillating about their Belief, Wondering, Kind of Believing sometimes, sometimes not, Hoping (but not sure), IF They “will be” saved and the endless irrelevant chatter of men debating their Salvation is “dependent” upon their “relationships with other men”?

My view is: What a marvelous Gift Offering God provided, to be absolutely SURE of ones own destiny.

 

[atpollard]

All those verses are limited atonement. Like I said to deny limited atonement is to be against the effectiveness of the saving death of Christ. That's not good friend

That’s what I thought … “Taint So” is all YOU have.
Let me do YOUR work for you and offer at least ONE EXAMPLE just to prove that they exist:

Romans 5:6-11 [NASB95]

6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.​

Not ALL but US.

 

[ChristisGod]

What post # provides scripture establishing limited atonement? I just reread the topic and could not find it. Certainly no post by you presents a scriptural case for your position. You just keep making sweeping claims.

I will offer for you, just a handful of verses for you to explain why “all men” cannot mean ALL men so that anyone that dares to believe that “all men” means ALL men must be a heretic:

• John 12:32 [NASB95] "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.
• Romans 5:18 [NASB95] So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
  
• 1 Timothy 2:1 [NASB95] First of all, then, I urge that entreaties [and] prayers, petitions [and] thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
• 1 Timothy 2:4 [NASB95] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
• 1 Timothy 4:10 [NASB95] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
  
• Titus 2:11 [NASB95] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

It is one thing to disagree with the exegesis of verses by another.
It is something different to accuse those that disagree with you of betraying the Cross.
Now I have provided verses to support the POSSIBILITY that Jesus died for more than just the elect. Time for you to point to these verses that you claim prove that Jesus ONLY died for the Elect.

Great passages that are irrefutable.

 

[Wrangler]

Where does the Bible say that the WRATH of God was poured out on Christ, as so many claim from pulpits? That was the point raised in the OP.

It was a question from the OP!

Most responses, including my first at Post #73, is some version of the premise of your question is wrong. Like asking when you stopped beating your wife.

 

[brightfame52]

That’s what I thought … “Taint So” is all YOU have.
Let me do YOUR work for you and offer at least ONE EXAMPLE just to prove that they exist:

Romans 5:6-11 [NASB95]

6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath [of God] through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.​

Not ALL but US.

Its all that is needed, any and all verses, passages of scripture that pertain to God saving sinners, Christs death, is restricted to Gods elect or Sheep. The words all, world, every, us, our and so forth are still limited to Gods Elect. Its a large number of Gods Elect, so catch words like all, everyone and so forth, even world, is quite appropriate.

Most people use those words to succumb to compromise, and that results in denying the Saving Virtue of Christs death, thats not a good crowd to take sides with my friend.

 

[quietthinker]

You should be ashamed. Everyone is not God's elect , that is a obvious false teaching.

I see you are unwilling to engage a reasonable discussion on this matter of 'should' or 'should not' but would rather settle for blanket pronouncements as would a dictator.
Ultimately there is nothing I can do about this matter however, my experience is that unless I engage challenges reasonably I just repeat, repeat, repeat and growth becomes stymied......the very thing which encourages 'sleeping'

 

[quietthinker]

All mankind’s Flesh WILL die, MUST die. God requires it.

I doubt whether God requires death. It seems more of a consequence of separation from the source of life. However, if one see's it as an arbitrary punishment, one sets up a paradigm who's rabbit hole knows no end. It spawns theories like purgatory and reincarnation to mention a few.

 

[Taken]

I doubt whether God requires death. It seems more of a consequence of separation from the source of life. However, if one see's it as an arbitrary punishment, one sets up a paradigm who's rabbit hole knows no end. It spawns theories like purgatory and reincarnation to mention a few.

Gen 9:
[1] And God ...said ...
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Not a punishment. Not arbitrary. Only way a corrupt earthly man can ever become born of God.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

A human seed is corrupted. The thing it reproduces is corrupted. A man can not receive Gods Seed, (become born again), lest the thing (corrupt reproduced thing...ie man) first dies.

 

[Taken]

Gen 9:
[1] And God ...said ...
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Not a punishment. Not arbitrary. Only way a corrupt earthly man can ever become born of God.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

A human seed is corrupted. The thing it reproduces is corrupted. A man can not receive Gods Seed, (become born again), lest the thing (corrupt reproduced thing...ie man) first dies.

 

[brightfame52]

I see you are unwilling to engage a reasonable discussion on this matter of 'should' or 'should not' but would rather settle for blanket pronouncements as would a dictator.
Ultimately there is nothing I can do about this matter however, my experience is that unless I engage challenges reasonably I just repeat, repeat, repeat and growth becomes stymied......the very thing which encourages 'sleeping'

Reasonable discussion doesnt consist of an outright contradiction of truth, stating all men are Gods elect. Thats one of the most unreasonable statements i ever heard.

 

[quietthinker]

Reasonable discussion doesnt consist of an outright contradiction of truth, stating all men are Gods elect. Thats one of the most unreasonable statements i ever heard.

well mate, you haven't heard the good news! .....however, how does one tell another person when they think they've heard it?

 

[brightfame52]

well mate, you haven't heard the good news! .....however, how does one tell another person when they think they've heard it?

Huh ? You still sounding unreasonable to me.

 

[quietthinker]

Huh ? You still sounding unreasonable to me.

It's unfortunate you hear it like that!

 

[brightfame52]

It's unfortunate you hear it like that!

It is unfortunate that you express things like that.