The WRATH of God poured out on Christ … where?

[atpollard]

WRATH: strong vengeful anger (Merriam-Webster)

There is a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”.
WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger.

Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angrily punishing Jesus in our place?

I would never suggest that Jesus did not suffer the punishment of God for the sins of men, since there are too many verses that clearly state that.

Nor would I EVER suggest that God will not pour out His wrath on those that reject the salvation offered in Jesus Christ (typically mentioned as part of a final judgement to come).

However, God has also said "The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer [the punishment] for the father's guilt, nor will a father suffer [the punishment] for the son's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” - Ezekiel 18:20 [NASB20]

Is that not exactly what we claim that God has done when we say that the WRATH of the Father (God) fell on Jesus … angrily punished the innocent for the sin of the guilty?

I would prefer to see a verse that EXPLICITLY supported that claim.
(Now that is a conversation worth having.)

 

[atpollard]

The Father was never angry with Jesus. But Christ endured the wrath of God against sin and sinners. Why else would the Father forsake the Son? And what you think it means when Scripture says that "He made His soul an offering for sin"? What do you think it means when the bible says that "He was SMITTEN of God and afflicted"? What do think it means when the Bible says "the CHASTISMENT of our peace was upon Him"? What do you think it means when Scripture says "for the transgression of my people He was STRICKEN"?

Christians have no business perverting the truth about the sufferings of Christ.

I agree.
That also includes telling people that the Father was angrily punishing the Son (wrath), when the Father was angry at sin (requiring propitiation) and the Son chose to suffer to free us (redeemer).

 

[atpollard]

Jesus took our sins upon Himself and the Father was angry with our sins as they fell upon Jesus; and so was angry with Jesus in that sense.

However, Jesus never sinned; and therefore He never did anything to provoke the Father to anger.

I WANTED to find the verse that proved the “wrath of God poured on Christ who took the punishment that God wanted to inflict on us” teaching that I had HEARD. I have searched HARD. That is just not what the actual verses in the Bible say. It is what people “read between the lines” that the verses must really mean. That is bad exegeses and hermeneutics.

What the scripture DOES SAY is absolutely fascinating. Try to prove me wrong (I welcome it) and see what you actually find when you REALLY READ THE WORDS. What they say and what they do not say.

 

[GISMYS_7]

The law of God is the wages of sin is death and all mankind sin but Jesus took all our sins on the cross and paid our sin debt!

 

[atpollard]

John 3:31-36 [NASB95]

31 "He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all. 32 "What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 "He who has received His testimony has set his seal to [this,] that God is true. 34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure. 35 "The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand. 36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."​

Here is one of the passages in the Gospels that speaks of the wrath of God. In this passage, the wrath of God abides only on those that do not obey the Son. As for the rest (the saved) what does the passage actually say:

• God gives the Spirit without measure
• The Father loves the Son
• The Father has given all things into His hand
• he who believes the Son has eternal life (present)

(Note no mention of transfer of wrath, only “abiding wrath” for the damned in the future - verb tense).

 

[atpollard]

The law of God is the wages of sin is death and all mankind sin but Jesus took all our sins on the cross and paid our sin debt!

I agree (for the saved, the unsaved die in their sins).

But there is no “transfer of wrath” mentioned.
The Father loves the Son, wicked men crucified Jesus, Jesus permitted and accepted it to redeem us.
Wrath is poured on the guilty by God.

 

[GISMYS_7]

The law of God is the wages of sin is death and all mankind sin but Jesus took all our sins on the cross and paid our sin debt and now we believers have eternal life.

 

[heartwashed]

I WANTED to find the verse that proved the “wrath of God poured on Christ who took the punishment that God wanted to inflict on us” teaching that I had HEARD. I have searched HARD. That is just not what the actual verses in the Bible say. It is what people “read between the lines” that the verses must really mean. That is bad exegeses and hermeneutics.

What the scripture DOES SAY is absolutely fascinating. Try to prove me wrong (I welcome it) and see what you actually find when you REALLY READ THE WORDS. What they say and what they do not say.

Is your Faith in the Bible or is it in God?

Apparently you don't know what the word "propitiation" means; in such verses as Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2, and 1 John 4:10.

I would suggest that you go and look it up.

 

[Randy Kluth]

WRATH: strong vengeful anger (Merriam-Webster)

There is a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”.
WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger.

Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angrily punishing Jesus in our place?

I would never suggest that Jesus did not suffer the punishment of God for the sins of men, since there are too many verses that clearly state that.

Nor would I EVER suggest that God will not pour out His wrath on those that reject the salvation offered in Jesus Christ (typically mentioned as part of a final judgement to come).

However, God has also said "The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer [the punishment] for the father's guilt, nor will a father suffer [the punishment] for the son's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” - Ezekiel 18:20 [NASB20]

Is that not exactly what we claim that God has done when we say that the WRATH of the Father (God) fell on Jesus … angrily punished the innocent for the sin of the guilty?

I would prefer to see a verse that EXPLICITLY supported that claim.
(Now that is a conversation worth having.)

It's not entirely a conversation worth having. Some simply mean by stating the wrath of God came on Jesus that he took our punishment. I really don't know precisely how the Scriptures indicate this, except that he became the atonement for our sin.

I personally prefer to say, like you apparently, that Jesus simply paid the price for sinners--not that God was angry with him and that atoned for us. That, I think, is a fair point.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Mark 15:34
At the ninth hour, Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

 

[Davy]

WRATH: strong vengeful anger (Merriam-Webster)

There is a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”.
WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger.

Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angrily punishing Jesus in our place?

I would never suggest that Jesus did not suffer the punishment of God for the sins of men, since there are too many verses that clearly state that.

Nor would I EVER suggest that God will not pour out His wrath on those that reject the salvation offered in Jesus Christ (typically mentioned as part of a final judgement to come).

However, God has also said "The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer [the punishment] for the father's guilt, nor will a father suffer [the punishment] for the son's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” - Ezekiel 18:20 [NASB20]

Is that not exactly what we claim that God has done when we say that the WRATH of the Father (God) fell on Jesus … angrily punished the innocent for the sin of the guilty?

I would prefer to see a verse that EXPLICITLY supported that claim.
(Now that is a conversation worth having.)

NO! It's actually NOT a conversation worth having!

Because all your idea is designed to do is to try and detract from the Divinity of Lord Jesus Christ and the purity of His sacrifice upon His cross for the remission of sins of those who believe.

If you haven't understood it yet, Lord Jesus served as a sacrificial Lamb. Per the old covenant sacrifice, the sacrificial lamb had to be genetically pure and without blemish. Jesus fulfilled that by being TOTALLY WITHOUT ANY SIN. And He is the ONLY ONE able to be born in the flesh like us and be completely without sin.

I cringe when I hear ignorant preachers teach a false message when Jesus said the words, "Eli, Eli, lamasabachthani?" while upon the cross (Matthew 27:46). They go into stupid tirades like how much Jesus suffered on the cross, thinking The Father had abandoned Him, and ignorance of that sort. Can God abandon God? Impossible!

When Lord Jesus said that, "Eli, Eli, ..." upon the cross, He was actually QUOTING from The Old Testament Book of Psalms 22 by David. Psalms 22 is about some of the detail of Christ's crucifixion, even the idea of the soldiers casting lots upon Jesus' robes! When Jesus quoted that, "Eli, Eli,..." phrase, He was REVEALING PROOF that He is The Messiah! That He had come, the prophecy of the crucifixion, given through David about 1,000 years before, was right then coming to pass! That is why He quoted that from Psalms 22.

So didn't the scribes and Pharisees know that Psalms 22 Scripture? Why wouldn't they catch Jesus quoting that, and put 2 and 2 together about that day of His crucifixion? Even worse, why do so many preachers today show illiteracy of that Psalms 22 passage?

Ps 22:1
22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
KJV

 

[MatthewG]

It doesn't make much sense for God to pour out his wrath on His son who did nothing. The Wrath of God was to be poured out on the nation of Israel for their crimes of divorcing God, and killing the Son of God.

 

[ChristisGod]

NO! It's actually NOT a conversation worth having!

Because all your idea is designed to do is to try and detract from the Divinity of Lord Jesus Christ and the purity of His sacrifice upon His cross for the remission of sins of those who believe.

If you haven't understood it yet, Lord Jesus served as a sacrificial Lamb. Per the old covenant sacrifice, the sacrificial lamb had to be genetically pure and without blemish. Jesus fulfilled that by being TOTALLY WITHOUT ANY SIN. And He is the ONLY ONE able to be born in the flesh like us and be completely without sin.

I cringe when I hear ignorant preachers teach a false message when Jesus said the words, "Eli, Eli, lamasabachthani?" while upon the cross (Matthew 27:46). They go into stupid tirades like how much Jesus suffered on the cross, thinking The Father had abandoned Him, and ignorance of that sort. Can God abandon God? Impossible!

When Lord Jesus said that, "Eli, Eli, ..." upon the cross, He was actually QUOTING from The Old Testament Book of Psalms 22 by David. Psalms 22 is about some of the detail of Christ's crucifixion, even the idea of the soldiers casting lots upon Jesus' robes! When Jesus quoted that, "Eli, Eli,..." phrase, He was REVEALING PROOF that He is The Messiah! That He had come, the prophecy of the crucifixion, given through David about 1,000 years before, was right then coming to pass! That is why He quoted that from Psalms 22.

So didn't the scribes and Pharisees know that Psalms 22 Scripture? Why wouldn't they catch Jesus quoting that, and put 2 and 2 together about that day of His crucifixion? Even worse, why do so many preachers today show illiteracy of that Psalms 22 passage?

Ps 22:1
22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
KJV

Yes quoting Psalm 22 was a proclamation that He was the Messiah. I have an in depth study on this I will post later .

 

[ChristisGod]

It doesn't make much sense for God to pour out his wrath on His son who did nothing. The Wrath of God was to be poured out on the nation of Israel for their crimes of divorcing God, and killing the Son of God.

No it’s much more then the above . His wrath was , is and will be poured out upon all the ungodly who reject God snd His provision for sin in the atonement. His wrath always falls upon the wicked , not the righteous.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

Here is what I have studied so far and I still have a few things I will be adding to this paper before I'm finished.


This paper is about the Trinity, and the penal substitutionary theory of the atonement (e.g., PSA), as it relates to the nature and character of God. The word Theology refers to the study of God, and God is Triune, a Trinity- Tri-Unity. All doctrine begins with God at its starting point. God’s innate attributes are Aseity (God is self-sufficient), Infinite (without limit), Eternal (God has no beginning or end, he is timeless), Immutable (God is unchanging), Love (God is love), Holy (God is set-apart), Perichoresis (the indwelling of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Divine Simplicity states God is Love because He is Love, not because He possesses that quality. God is the center of all the Divine Attributes. They point to His Being. God is not distinct from His nature as John Calvin taught in his commentary on 1 John 4:8. Also the WCF- the Westminster Confession of Faith leaves out Love as one of Gods attributes. This is very telling as we examine the Cross in light of God’s love and that love is an immutable attribute Gods nature.


God is Love. In love, the Father sent the Son on our behalf to be the perfect sacrifice for sin. We Love because He first loved us and sent His Son as 1 John tells us.


We must understand how God's attributes all work in harmony together, not in opposition to each other. God's attributes and character flow from His love—for God is love.


God being love has nothing to do with His creation. That is secondary. God is love, and that love is perfect, lacking nothing within His Triune nature as God. Love, by definition, has to be expressed with another, which is why a unitarian god cannot be love. Love requires another to share and express that love, and it is what we see with the Triune God. God is love before anyone/anything existed.


Before creation, there was no sin. There was no judgment, wrath, mercy, grace, and justice. Why? Because those are God's secondary attributes concerning the creation and the fall. God's love is a primary attribute, like Holy is a primary one. Everything about God flows from His being Love which includes His secondary attributes, which were not in use until the creation and the fall.


The messianic passage of Psalm 22 was played out before their very eyes, and Jesus quotes the opening verse letting His persecutors know that He truly is the Son of God, the Messiah, by quoting Psalm 22. The passage was being lived out before all witnesses of the crucifixion. It is a proclamation and a declaration that He is the Messiah, God's One and Only Son who gave His life as a ransom for many.


What the Father did allow to happen and not rescue His Son from was His death and suffering from those wicked leaders to be our sacrifice for sin. The entire weight of that was upon Him to bear alone, but the Father never left Him. He was there hearing His prayers and answering them upon His death. Moreover, let us not forget Jesus' promise to the sinner, "Today, you will be with me in paradise (insert bible reference)." For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. The Trinity was never fractured, broken, or severed for even a moment, but together, the Godhead accomplished salvation for sinners. It was a Triune effort that worked out to perfection as They had planned from the very beginning. Furthermore, when this reconciliation took place at the cross, we read that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself - 2 Corinthians 5:19. The book of Romans states that "God demonstrated His love for us that while we were still sinners Christ died for us" (5:8). So Jesus' sacrificial atonement both propitiates (turns away God’s wrath) and expiates (covers our sins). Gods’ wrath does not fall on the sacrifice. Scripture teaches us that sin was condemned in the flesh, not that Jesus was condemned (Romans 8:3).



Psalm 22
My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?
Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.
2 O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer;
And by night, but I have no rest.
3 Yet You are holy,
O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel.
4 In You our fathers trusted;
They trusted and You delivered them.
5 To You they cried out and were delivered;
In You they trusted and were not disappointed.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me sneer at me;
They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying,
8 “Commit yourself to the Lord; let Him deliver him;
Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him.”
9 Yet You are He who brought me forth from the womb;
You made me trust when upon my mother’s breasts.
10 Upon You I was cast from birth;
You have been my God from my mother’s womb.
11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.
13 They open wide their mouth at me,
As a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all my bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It is melted within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And my tongue cleaves to my jaws;
And You lay me in the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded me;
A band of evildoers has encompassed me;
They pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones.
They look, they stare at me;
18 They divide my garments among them,
And for my clothing they cast lots.
19 But You, O Lord, be not far off;
O You my help, hasten to my assistance.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword,
My only life from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion’s mouth;
From the horns of the wild oxen You answer me.
22 I will tell of Your name to my brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him;
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And stand in awe of Him, all you of Israel.
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from him;
But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.
25 From You comes my praise in the great assembly;
I shall pay my vows before those who fear Him.
26 The afflicted will eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep his soul alive.
30 Posterity will serve Him;
It will be told of the Lord to the coming generation.
31 They will come and will declare His righteousness
To a people who will be born, that He has performed it.


There are 10 points about God and Jesus' last words that are important to examine. Some people teach when Jesus said (My God My God why have Thou forsaken Me) that the Father departed, deserted, and turned His back upon His Son to bear God’s wrath on the cross. They teach this from the pulpits that God is too Holy to look upon sin. However, is this teaching biblical? Is it true?

1-God is Triune- Tri-Unity
2- The Trinity cannot be broken, separated, or abandoned.
3- God does not send His wrath against God
4- Jesus is God
5- Context has meaning, and all the gospel accounts work together with the O.T. quotations
6-In Luke 23:46, Jesus' last words were," Father into Thy hands I commit my Spirit."
7- In Psalm 22, there are numerous details regarding Jesus' crucifixion. For example, Psalms 22 and the gospels say He was mocked, despised, hurled insults, cast lots, divided His clothes and let God rescue Him. Further, Psalm 22:24 says God has not despised Him nor hidden His face from Him and God listened to His cry for help.
8- Psalm 22:24 coincides with Jesus' trust and relationship with the Father when he states, "Into your hands, I commit MY Spirit."
9- Psalm 22:1 was Jesus’ cry in response to his enemies' surrounding him like David, not about the Father turning away from him.
10- Psalm 22 and Jesus last words are a declaration, a proclamation that He is the promised Messiah described in great detail in this Psalm.

 

[ChristisGod]

continued :

Though often taught from the pulpit and widely accepted within Christianity, there is a common misnomer that God cannot look upon sin.


This misnomer or idea is rooted in a misunderstanding of Habakkuk 1:13, which states, "Your eyes are too pure to look upon evil." To expand upon the meaning of this verse, God cannot look at sin favorably or with complacency. However, this verse does not state that God cannot look at sin or that He cannot allow sin in His presence. God did not turn His back on Adam when he sinned--God sought him out. God did not turn His back on David when he sinned. In the book of Job, God allowed satan in His presence for a specific purpose. Satan wanted to make a deal with God over His servant, Job. God restricted Satan, telling him that he "can do anything but touch Job" and not to "lay a hand or finger on him." In the wilderness, Jesus allowed the presence of satan (face to face).


Jesus did not turn His back on Saul when he was persecuting the church and sought him out on the Damascus Road and said to him," why are you persecuting Me?" If God did not turn His back on sinners, then neither did the Father turn His back on His only Son who is Holy, Blameless, Sinless, and Righteous just like His Father. The Father turning His back on the Son (at the cross) is not found in Scripture. Jesus ate with sinners, lived among sinners, loves sinners and He suffered and died for sinners.



Wrath- strongs 3709 ὀργή is defined in the Greek lexicon as anger, retribution, vengeance, and indignation. God is not against Himself angrily displaying wrath from the Father to the Son. God is love. In love, He sent His Son. The wrath bearing Son is a new concept not found in Scripture nor the early church fathers (ECFs). God is not against Himself. No one in the Trinity is in opposition, no conflict, no dissension, no strife, no disunity, no dysfunction. As if God were somehow like a sinful human family. There is nothing broken in Our Blessed Trinity.


Jesus bearing God’s wrath and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is not found in the pages of Scripture. That doctrine was developed in the dark ages during the Reformation and called Penal Substitution Theory of the Atonement or PSA.


Calvin's comments on Galatians 3:13,


"He could not cease to be the object of his Father’s love, and yet he endured his wrath. For how could he reconcile the Father to us, if he had incurred his hatred and displeasure? We conclude, that he “did always those things that pleased” (John 8:29) his Father. Again, how would he have freed us from the wrath of God, if he had not transferred it from us to himself? Thus, “he was wounded for our transgressions,” (Isaiah 53:5,) and had to deal with God as an angry judge."


The following scriptures affirm that Jesus' relationship with the Father on the cross was still there and not broken.


Psalm 22:24
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.


Luke 23:46
Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 16:32
"A time is coming and in fact has come when you will be scattered, each to your own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me."


Hebrews 5:7
During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.


Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross that today you will be with Me in Paradise reaffirms Jesus went to be with the Father and not suffer in hell as some teach.


Jesus bearing God's “cup of wrath” and being despised and forsaken by the Father and Him turning His back on the Son is not found in Scripture.

In Matthew 26:39, Jesus says, "If it be your will, let this cup pass from me." Jesus tells us precisely what the cup was. It was the cup of his suffering, which meant that He would die an agonizing death as a martyr. In the passage below, Jesus told His disciples that they would also drink of the same "cup":

Matthew 20:17-23
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, 18 “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death 19 and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him. 21 “What is it you want?” he asked. She said, "Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom."22 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said to them. “Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” “We can,” they answered. 23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”


1 Thessalonians 5:9-For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.


As we see above it was not the cup of wrath Jesus was speaking about but it was the suffering He was going to have to endure for our sins. God has not appointed us to wrath and the cup means the suffering of Jesus and that the disciples would also suffer death as martyrs. In fact, many scriptures testify that believers too will suffer persecution for being a follower of Jesus. Suffering persecution is a promise for a believer who follows Jesus, it is something we should expect to happen in our life.


2 Timothy 3:12- Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.


John 15:20
Remember the word that I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will persecute you as well; if they kept My word, they will keep yours as well.


Matthew 5:10 - Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


2 Corinthians 4:9- persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.


Wrath from God is not required for the forgiveness of sins, that is a misnomer.


Exodus 34:6
Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in faithfulness and truth;


Isaiah 48:9
For the sake of My name, I will delay My wrath; for the sake of My praise, I will restrain it, so that you will not be cut off.


Psalm 78:38
And yet He was compassionate; He forgave their iniquity and did not destroy them. He often restrained His anger and did not unleash His full wrath.


Psalm 85:1-3
You, Lord, showed favor to your land;
you restored the fortunes of Jacob.
2 You forgave the iniquity of your people
and covered all their sins.
3 You set aside all your wrath
and turned from your fierce anger.

 

[ChristisGod]

continued :

The wrath of God (Isaiah 53)

Within the study of the doctrine on PSA, the central O.T. passage it comes from is found in Isaiah 53. Let us look at how the N.T. quotes Isaiah 53 and see how the N.T. writers viewed the passages and used them in the N.T. and what language from Isaiah 53 they applied to Jesus in the N.T. regarding suffering.

In doing so, a few things stand out. There is no penal aspect/ language Isaiah used that is carried over in the N.T. but that of substitution. Isaiah 53:4- WE (not God) considered Him punished by God. The following NT passages quote Isaiah 53: Matthew 8:14-17; Mark 15:27-32; John 12:37-41; Luke 22:35-38; Acts 8:26-35; Romans 10:11-21; and 1 Peter 2:19-25.

Matthew 8:14-17

When Jesus came into Peter’s home, He saw his mother-in-law lying sick in bed with a fever. 15 And He touched her hand, and the fever left her; and she got up and waited on Him. 16 Now when evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill. 17 This happened so that what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet would be fulfilled: “He Himself took our illnesses and carried away our diseases.”


Mark 15:27-32
They crucified two robbers with Him, one on His right and one on His left. 28 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And He was numbered with transgressors.”] 29 Those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads, and saying, “Ha! You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, 30 save Yourself, and come down from the cross!” 31 In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes, were mocking Him among themselves and saying, “He saved others; He cannot save Himself. 32 Let this Christ, the King of Israel, now come down from the cross, so that we may see and believe!” Those who were crucified with Him were also insulting Him.


Luke 22:35-38
And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36 And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me: ‘And He was counted with wrongdoers’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.” 38 They said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”


John 12:37-41
But though He had performed so many signs in their sight, they still were not believing in Him. 38 This happened so that the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke would be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” 39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again, 40 “He has blinded their eyes and He hardened their heart, so that they will not see with their eyes and understand with their heart, and be converted, and so I will not heal them.” 41 These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke about Him.



Acts 8:26-35
But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Get ready and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) 27 So he got ready and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading Isaiah the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” 30 Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?” 31 And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:

“He was led like a sheep to slaughter;

And like a lamb that is silent before its shearer,

So He does not open His mouth.

33 In humiliation His justice was taken away;

Who will describe His generation?

For His life is taken away from the earth.”

34 The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself, or of someone else?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.



Romans 10:11-21
For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”14 How then are they to call on Him in whom they have not believed? How are they to believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 But how are they to preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!” 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.18 But I say, surely, they have never heard, have they? On the contrary:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” 19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous with those who are not a nation, with a foolish nation I will anger you.” 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, “I was found by those who did not seek Me, I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me.” 21 But as for Israel, He says, “I have spread out My hands all day long to a disobedient and obstinate people.”


1 Peter 2:19-25
For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person endures grief when suffering unjustly. 20 For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God 21 For you have been called for this purpose, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you would follow in His steps, 22 He who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; 23 and while being abusively insulted, He did not insult in return; while suffering, He did not threaten, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; 24 and He Himself brought our sins in His body up on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness; by His wounds you were healed. 25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

 

[ChristisGod]

continued :

Atonement- katallagé καταλλαγή -reconciliation, restoration to favor. Strongs 2643.

Thayers: adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favor, (from Aeschylus on); in the N. T., of the restoration of the favor of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ: 2 Corinthians 5:18f; with the genitive of the one received into favor, τοῦ κόσμου (opposed to ἀποβολή), Romans 11:15; καταλλαγήν ἐλάβομεν, we received the blessing of the recovered favor of God, Romans 5:11; with the genitive of him whose favor is recovered, 2 Macc. 5:20. (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.)


Romans 5:11- And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. KJV

Romans 5:11- And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. NASB


1 Corinthians 5:7 say the following: For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. This means just like the firstborn were spared by the blood on the posts of their doors from God’s wrath so too are we passed over Gods wrath from the blood of Jesus. The blood of Jesus provides forgiveness of sins and God’s wrath like with the Israelites are passed over and it falls upon the wicked, not those covered and protected by the blood of the Lamb. Gods’ wrath as Romans 1 declares is still being poured out upon sin and ungodliness and the bowls of Gods wrath and punishment is still yet to come. So, if Jesus bore Gods’ wrath for sinners, then why is God’s wrath still being poured out now and, in the future, if in the Atonement Gods wrath was satisfied? The fact is Jesus did not bear God’s wrath on the cross because it still exists and is being poured out in the bowls of Revelation before His 2nd Coming.


Romans 5:9- Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!


1 Thessalonians 1:10- and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.


Propitiation- the turning away of God's anger/wrath

Expiation- the covering for our sins


Through expiation—the work of Christ on the cross for us—the sin of all those who would ever believe in Christ was canceled. That cancellation is eternal in its consequence, even though sin is still present in the temporal sense. In other words, believers are delivered from the penalty and power of sin, but not the presence of it. Justification is the term for being delivered from the penalty of sin. This is a one-time act wherein the sinner is justified and made holy and righteous in the eyes of God, who exchanged our sinful natures for the righteousness of Christ at the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21). Sanctification is the ongoing process whereby believers are delivered from the power of sin in their lives and are enabled by the new nature to resist and turn away from it. Glorification is when we are removed from the very presence of sin, which will only occur once we leave this world and are in heaven. All these processes—justification, sanctification, and glorification—are made possible through the expiation or cancellation of sin. (gotquestions.org)


Propitiation vs. Expiation- The New Testament usage of hilaskomai and hilasmos, consistent with its precedent usage in the Greek Old Testament, speaks consistently of God’s atoning action in Christ directed toward sin on behalf of sinners, not human action directed toward God to satisfy God. The criterion for interpretation, Stott has said, “is whether the object of the atoning action is God or man.” “Propitiation” indicates an action by humans directed toward God, and “expiation” indicates an action by God toward sin and sinners. According to Stott's criterion, these texts favor "expiation" over “propitiation.” Given the choice of translating hilastērion either “propitiation” or “expiation,” therefore, “expiation” is preferable based on the textual evidence of both the New Testament and the Greek Old Testament. James Dunn summarizes well the case for preferring “expiation” to “propitiation” as a translation for hilastērion: Darrin W. Snyder Belousek, Atonement, Justice, and Peace: The Message of the Cross and the Mission of the Church (Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2012), 247–252.

So, as we see, the Tri-Unity of God is eternal, and the Father / Son relationship remained perfect through the crucifixion of Jesus. Our Triune God perfectly accomplished the atonement and our salvation through Jesus suffering for our sins on the cross, and His Resurrection from the dead gave Him and the church victory over sin, death, the devil, and the world.


Purification for sin- καθαρισμός- katharismos: a cleansing, purifying, purification, expiation. Strongs 2512.

Thayers: a cleansing from the guilt of sins (see καθαρίζω, 1 b. β.): wrought now by baptism, 2 Peter 1:9, now by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ, Hebrews 1:3 on which cf. Kurtz, Commentary, p. 70; (Exodus 30:10; τῆς ἁμαρτίας μου, Job 7:21; of an atonement, Lucian, asin. 22)

Hebrews 1:3-And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[ChristisGod]

ending continued :

Purification for sin is in the blood of Christ in the Atonement

Matthew 26:26-29
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Hebrews 9:22
Because all things are purged by blood in The Written Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Leviticus 4:20,26,35
And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

Leviticus 6:7
And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for your souls upon the altar; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

Hebrews 9
Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. 6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

The forgiveness of sins is found only in the blood of Christ- His life which He gave as a sacrifice for sin. That is the heart of the Atonement. It is what the New Covenant is found upon His blood, His life which was given for our sins. Forgiveness is only found in His blood that He gave His life on our behalf. That is how our sins are removed and taken away. That is what the Law required for sin was the blood of the animal sacrifice.

There is no "punishment" above anywhere. There is a sacrifice provided which covers and provides forgiveness of sins. The entire book of Hebrews is built upon the OT Law and how it is fulfilled in Christ.

Jesus said He gave His life as a Ransom. Strongs 3038- Lutron λύτρον. the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation. Thayers: λύτρον, λύτρου, τό (λύω), the Sept. passim for כֹּפֶר, גְּאֻלָּה, פִּדְיון, etc.; the price for redeeming, ransom (paid for slaves, Leviticus 19:20; for captives, Isaiah 45:13; for the ransom of a life, Exodus 21:30; Numbers 35:31f): ἀντί πολλῶν, to liberate many from the misery and penalty of their sins, Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45. (Pindar, Aeschylus, Xenophon, Plato, others.)


Matthew 20:28- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many

Conclusion

As we have seen reading through these O.T. passages quoted in the N.T., we discover that the N.T. does not use the penal language that was developed during the Reformation in the dark ages as that was how that culture during that time had dealt with people in their judicial system punishing those who disagreed with them, torture and death were a result for many who went against their theology. That was the mentality of those who developed the doctrine we have today called the PSA atonement. There are many aspects and theories of the atonement that contain truth, and no one theory is 100% correct. There are many different views and aspects to the atonement within orthodoxy. The N.T. writers' emphasis on the atonement is on the side of expiation rather than propitiation, which is only used twice in the epistle of 1 John. There are many aspects to the atonement. The N.T. writers' emphasis on the atonement is on the side of expiation. Propitiation is expiation. See 1 John 2:2 ;1 John 4:10. Gods’ wrath is still future and will judge those who reject His Sons atonement for sin. Gods’ wrath was not poured out on the Son for sin otherwise there would be no future wrath from God because of sin. The viewpoint in this paper brings out the fact that Jesus’ atonement was done in love which provided covering and forgiveness of sins. And this view harmonizes with God’s wrath that is still yet to come and was not poured out on Jesus on the cross.

hope this helps !!

 

[ScottA]

WRATH: strong vengeful anger (Merriam-Webster)

There is a good conversation to be had on the subject of “Jesus and the wrath of God”.
WRATH implies punishment inflicted in anger.

Where is the scripture verse that ever actually says that God (the Father) was EVER angrily punishing Jesus in our place?

I would never suggest that Jesus did not suffer the punishment of God for the sins of men, since there are too many verses that clearly state that.

Nor would I EVER suggest that God will not pour out His wrath on those that reject the salvation offered in Jesus Christ (typically mentioned as part of a final judgement to come).

However, God has also said "The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer [the punishment] for the father's guilt, nor will a father suffer [the punishment] for the son's guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.” - Ezekiel 18:20 [NASB20]

Is that not exactly what we claim that God has done when we say that the WRATH of the Father (God) fell on Jesus … angrily punished the innocent for the sin of the guilty?

I would prefer to see a verse that EXPLICITLY supported that claim.
(Now that is a conversation worth having.)

Many assume...because that is the end result, but this is actually how it came about:

John 10:17-18
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
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