The Resurrection is for all people (thank you Yeshua!)

[Lambano]

That is alright, you can't really see my heart because sometimes (the sin inside) it can be very mean and hateful to other people. ....

You continue to question me, but never took time to answer my questions... I am glad I can't see anyones heart for real.

I've revealed enough of my heart on this forum that you can see some of the ugliness within, if you know what to look for.

Hey, I answered the questions that led in a direction I wanted to go. One of the advantages of this medium is that each user gets some say in the terms of engagement in each discussion.

 

[MatthewG]

I've revealed enough of my heart on this forum that you can see some of the ugliness within, if you know what to look for.

Hey, I answered the questions that led in a direction I wanted to go. One of the advantages of this medium is that each user gets some say in the terms of engagement in each discussion.

Sin still reigns in our hearts brother. It’s Jesus who suppresses it by the spirit, I have read some of things you have stated and said about yourself.

Anyway as long as you were solely satisfied then good, deal.

God bless you.

 

[ChristisGod]

Let me quote from his very first post. In his opening statement he alerts the reader concerning the content of his thread saying, "I’m going to post a view points here of general references to Resurrection being for all people."

The doctrine of the general resurrection of the dead is without controversy among Bible believing Christians. Thus, when someone begins a thread concerning a doctrine that remains without dispute, concerning a subject upon which all Christians agree, then the OP seems to invite the reader to assume a tacit controversy. And what is the most likely "unspoken" controversy concerning the general resurrection: the doctrine of universalism. And so I, and others entered the conversation on that basis.

@Christophany responded with an appropriate response, in my opinion saying, "So much for the false doctrine of universalism and that there is a resurrection of condemnation, everlasting judgement/contempt/ shame/ eternal torment and others to life/bliss with Jesus." From this response, we can see that I wasn't the only one who concluded that the topic of discussion was universalism.

At post 57, @Aunty Jane argues well against universalism, citing several Bible passages accompanied by insightful commentary. (And I don't mean to leave out the others who also argued against the doctrine.) But consider that @MatthewG never once corrects our assumptions or makes a clear declaration that the thread is NOT about universalism. This course of action is highly dishonest, in my opinion. We don't discover the actual intended subject topic until post #96, which I missed because I don't typically read through an entire thread.

I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that the opening post defines the topic of discussion, and since my time on the boards is limited (I am using up work time to post this) I typically respond to the original post. I was lead to believe that the topic of discussion was universalism, and after reviewing much of this thread again, I have no evidence to change my opinion. And from all appearances @MatthewG was reticent to engage in an honest examination of his topic, (which was not universalism) hiding the actual topic which lead to all this confusion. The intended topic of discussion seems to be "eternal suburbia" and all of the isolation and alienation associated with that lifestyle.

I am so angry at being deceived and disappointed this time around that I'm seriously considering whether online discussion is worth my time anymore. I now question whether or not my direct answers to questions are helpful, whether my lengthy exegesis of a passage is helpful, or whether my words of encouragement are needed or required. At this point, I wonder if the darkness is beyond human repair. Why can't we be honest and real with each other?

This was a fair assessment of whats going on.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

hmmm…this will require some thought. when you mentioned three times, I was intrigued and wanted to read what you were talking about because I have also wondered if maybe we will see a repeat of how He came from three different places at three different times the FIRST time He came. You can catch some clues when you read, that they had arguments about where the Messiah would come from, because prophecy seemed to say He would come from three different places. You catch that there were arguments in things men said, like…oh, does anything good come out of Nazareth?? Or, search the scriptures for yourself and see that no prophet comes from Galilee! But when those prophecies were fulfilled, it quite literally DID happen that He came from all three places it was said He would but at different times - Nazareth, Galilee/Bethlehem (that’s an interesting one because there are 2 Bethlehem’s in Israel) and Egypt. Born in one, (Bethlehem) taken to another, (Egypt -out of Egypt I called My Son) then taken to another (Nazareth).

It’s an odd repeat that just as they had three main different views and arguments on where He would come from, we now have three different main views and arguments on when He will come again, with 3 actual prophecies AGAIN on where He will come from! It’s said He will come on the clouds when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him (which would have to be in the second resurrection if the men who pierced Him are risen and see Him). The second one I’ve found says He will come from Bozrah with His robes stained red. Another says He will come and we will meet Him in the clouds. So once again, from three different places at three different times!

I’ve leaned toward all three main views (pretrib, midtrib, post trib) all having a piece of it right, just as they all only had a piece of it right in arguing where He would come from the first time. I’ve never heard anyone else speak about it though but…I keep looking.

 

[Earburner]

You realize it’s impossible to have a proper study when people just quote here a verse there a verse and just make it literally applicable for todays time when it’s intellectually dishonest to do so? @Earburner. This might take a moment to sink in but all those people who were written to in that day in age where waiting to see his glorious return.

YES, but why were they waiting as early as then?
Ans. Only the Father knows of when it shall be, that He shall send Jesus back in all His physical, immortal Glory, for the full redemption of all who HAD taken part in the first resurrection, who IS Jesus. Revelation 20:6, Romans 8:8-9.
Up until the point of His third physical appearance, in the Glory of His immortality, He is still in His Second appearance to each and all that "seek Him" for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

 

[ChristisGod]

hmmm…this will require some thought. when you mentioned three times, I was intrigued and wanted to read what you were talking about because I have also wondered if maybe we will see a repeat of how He came from three different places at three different times the FIRST time He came. You can catch some clues when you read, that they had arguments about where the Messiah would come from, because prophecy seemed to say He would come from three different places. You catch that there were arguments in things men said, like…oh, does anything good come out of Nazareth?? Or, search the scriptures for yourself and see that no prophet comes from Galilee! But when those prophecies were fulfilled, it quite literally DID happen that He came from all three places it was said He would but at different times - Nazareth, Galilee/Bethlehem (that’s an interesting one because there are 2 Bethlehem’s in Israel) and Egypt. Born in one, (Bethlehem) taken to another, (Egypt -out of Egypt I called My Son) then taken to another (Nazareth).

It’s an odd repeat that just as they had three main different views and arguments on where He would come from, we now have three different main views and arguments on when He will come again, with 3 actual prophecies AGAIN on where He will come from! It’s said He will come on the clouds when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him (which would have to be in the second resurrection if the men who pierced Him are risen and see Him). The second one I’ve found says He will come from Bozrah with His robes stained red. Another says He will come and we will meet Him in the clouds. So once again, from three different places at three different times!

I’ve leaned toward all three main views (pretrib, midtrib, post trib) all having a piece of it right, just as they all only had a piece of it right in arguing where He would come from the first time. I’ve never heard anyone else speak about it though but…I keep looking.

Thanks for your thoughts on the topic . Something to ponder and consider .

 

[MatthewG]

YES, but why were they waiting as early as then?
Ans. Only the Father knows of when it shall be, that He shall send Jesus back in all His physical, immortal Glory, for the full redemption of all who HAD taken part in the first resurrection, who IS Jesus. Revelation 20:6, Romans 8:8-9.
Up until the point of His third physical appearance, in the Glory of His immortality, He is still in His Second appearance to each and all that "seek Him" for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians need to be taken as a whole. So please be encouraged to do this, also Hebrews was a letter written to Jewish people, unsure who wrote it but was for them in that time.

Good question, however the progression of the return started to become imminent as closer the day had come, such as John writing the hour has come for an example.

So while you have a good question one has to admit none of these scriptures or letters were never written to us specifically and that is why I mentioned posting a scripture here or there doesn’t matter when you included the full context.

Such as when I mentioned revelation 1:1-7.

Was John mistaken to write those 7 literal churches? And also what is the context of the historical evidences leading up to this point in history.

 

[MatthewG]

Just got another clarification the Bible : probably was never written in sections like we have today with the chapter segments; it was written as a whole.

Any church of people who received a letter read it out to their congregation there at the time and the only Apostolic authority was from the Apostles who had written them.

Just take a moment to imagine your own self in their day in age, and read it as though you were standing among them and then take that though and relate it to what they were hearing from the apostles and then hopefully this will show you clear evidence that Jesus was bound to return and they were hoping for that day to arrive which became even closer when John began to write the revelation that was of Jesus Christ.

This is why I don’t believe Jesus is returning today, because of the Apostles were wrong then, …

Who are we to believe? Is the Bible even reliable at that point?

 

[Earburner]

hmmm…this will require some thought. when you mentioned three times, I was intrigued and wanted to read what you were talking about because I have also wondered if maybe we will see a repeat of how He came from three different places at three different times the FIRST time He came. You can catch some clues when you read, that they had arguments about where the Messiah would come from, because prophecy seemed to say He would come from three different places. You catch that there were arguments in things men said, like…oh, does anything good come out of Nazareth?? Or, search the scriptures for yourself and see that no prophet comes from Galilee! But when those prophecies were fulfilled, it quite literally DID happen that He came from all three places it was said He would but at different times - Nazareth, Galilee/Bethlehem (that’s an interesting one because there are 2 Bethlehem’s in Israel) and Egypt. Born in one, (Bethlehem) taken to another, (Egypt -out of Egypt I called My Son) then taken to another (Nazareth).

It’s an odd repeat that just as they had three main different views and arguments on where He would come from, we now have three different main views and arguments on when He will come again, with 3 actual prophecies AGAIN on where He will come from! It’s said He will come on the clouds when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him (which would have to be in the second resurrection if the men who pierced Him are risen and see Him). The second one I’ve found says He will come from Bozrah with His robes stained red. Another says He will come and we will meet Him in the clouds. So once again, from three different places at three different times!

I’ve leaned toward all three main views (pretrib, midtrib, post trib) all having a piece of it right, just as they all only had a piece of it right in arguing where He would come from the first time. I’ve never heard anyone else speak about it though but…I keep looking.

SBG, thank you for reading the thoughts given to me by His meaning of our words/language(s).

I hear your thoughts, as well as the thoughts of the "minds" of the "scholars", of which you are reiterating. As I asked "MattG" earlier, I am asking you also to escape from your own thinking, and view what I have said, by the Mind of Christ that is within you.
I specifically outlined the three appearances of Jesus, in three ways:
1. Through the likeness of our flesh.
2. Through the the Comforter of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
3. Through His sudden physical appearance, in the Glory of His Immortality from Heaven.

Now here is the clincher:
Luke 17[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees [religious scholars], when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not [to us] with observation:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If you stay within what I have outlined, the Lord will reveal it to you. Try not to allow preconceived thoughts to divert your attention of study.
Isaiah 55:8-9.

May God bless you in your "seeking" after Him (Hebrews 9:28),
Earburner

 

[Earburner]

1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians need to be taken as a whole. So please be encouraged to do this, also Hebrews was a letter written to Jewish people, unsure who wrote it but was for them in that time.

Good question, however the progression of the return started to become imminent as closer the day had come, such as John writing the hour has come for an example.

So while you have a good question one has to admit none of these scriptures or letters were never written to us specifically and that is why I mentioned posting a scripture here or there doesn’t matter when you included the full context.

Such as when I mentioned revelation 1:1-7.

Was John mistaken to write those 7 literal churches? And also what is the context of the historical evidences leading up to this point in history.

At the present, you are thinking like a man, with also the thoughts of other men (scholars).
Can you go it alone, with only the Holy Spirit to guide you? He promised He would. John 16:13
I am looking for the Mind of Christ within you.

 

[Philologos]

There are some people on the board, who may have a difficult time accepting this as truth, however having people continuously try to combat this notion, I’m going to post a view points here of general references to Resurrection being for all people.

• “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
• ‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

• “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.”
• ‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
• “I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.”

• 
  
  
  • ‭‭Acts‬ ‭24:15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
  • “The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.”
  • ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Now I do have belief that’s Jesus has come and returned and the resurrection for them in that day in age had come to fruition as promised by Jesus and I continue to believe these principles still stand today; even if you still believe Jesus Christ has not come yet.

These are just 5 Scriptures that prove that people will be resurrected from the dead, regardless of being justified in Christ not justified in Christ.

If you would like to debate this please feel free just know that Resurrection is a Ket essential in the Gospel of Christ because he did raise from the dead! God raised him!

Shalom

- Matthew Gallagher

I’m confused as to why this is a “debate topic.” The scripture is clear that all will be resurrected to face judgement. The debate that usually accompanies this topic concerns its timing. Some denominations that are doctrine-driven confuse the 1st & 2nd resurrections. Often, preachers teach congregants that they will be part of the first resurrection and circumvent final judgment, but there is only one group that receives that honor, martyrs. The “last day” resurrection that even ancient Jews spoke of, is the general resurrection of all peoples to face judgement.

 

[MatthewG]

At the present, you are thinking like a man, with also the thoughts of other men (scholars).
Can you go it alone, with only the Holy Spirit to guide you? He promised He would. John 16:13
I am looking for the Mind of Christ within you.

You’re bypassing my points and validating your own by your assumptions.

This is not good.

 

[MatthewG]

I’m confused as to why this is a “debate topic.” The scripture is clear that all will be resurrected to face judgement. The debate that usually accompanies this topic concerns its timing. Some denominations that are doctrine-driven confuse the 1st & 2nd resurrections. Often, preachers teach congregants that they will be part of the first resurrection and circumvent final judgment, but there is only one group that receives that honor, martyrs. The “last day” resurrection that even ancient Jews spoke of, is the general resurrection of all peoples to face judgement.

Valid points here thank you for sharing Philogos.

Just people don’t believe everyone is resurrected. Some believe they just die and that is it. It becomes very confusing but your points here are good to note.

 

[Earburner]

Just got another clarification the Bible : probably was never written in sections like we have today with the chapter segments; it was written as a whole.

Any church of people who received a letter read it out to their congregation there at the time and the only Apostolic authority was from the Apostles who had written them.

Just take a moment to imagine your own self in their day in age, and read it as though you were standing among them and then take that though and relate it to what they were hearing from the apostles and then hopefully this will show you clear evidence that Jesus was bound to return and they were hoping for that day to arrive which became even closer when John began to write the revelation that was of Jesus Christ.

This is why I don’t believe Jesus is returning today, because of the Apostles were wrong then, …

Who are we to believe? Is the Bible even reliable at that point?

You have not entered into my proposal of discussion, but rather you are arguing against my point, revealing that it is unseating all that you have believed about the Lord's three appearances.

Yes, many times we must "trash" that which is error, in order to recieve His truth.

 

[MatthewG]

You have not entered into my proposal of discussion, but rather you are arguing against my point, revealing that it is unseating all that you have believed about the Lord's three appearances.

Yes, many times we must "trash" that which is error, in order to recieve His truth.

I did however you decided to ignore it.

You said I wasn’t open to discussion and I share a starting point Revelation 1:1-7.

You ignored it which is fine, I do the same to many people here to write in my own insertions.

This is why I told Stunned it’s impossible to have a proper discussion without proper introduction and taking books as a whole and not piece by piece.

So might as well just give up here, you believe that Jesus is still coming that is fine. I don’t though, and believe he has already.

There is no argument here but other to love each other as we both are my friend.

 

[Earburner]

You’re bypassing my points and validating your own by your assumptions.

This is not good.

Really? You have entered into my discussion willingly, and now I must obey your thoughts.
It is apparent that the unseating of your own thoughts for His truth is not relished by your own self. Be patient. And let the Mind of Christ digest it within you.:)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

SBG, thank you for reading the thoughts given to me by His meaning of our words/language(s).

I hear your thoughts, as well as the thoughts of the "minds" of the "scholars", of which you are reiterating. As I asked "MattG" earlier, I am asking you also to escape from your own thinking, and view what I have said, by the Mind of Christ that is within you.
I specifically outlined the three appearances of Jesus, in three ways:
1. Through the likeness of our flesh.
2. Through the the Comforter of the Gift of the Holy Spirit.
3. Through His sudden physical appearance, in the Glory of His Immortality from Heaven.

Now here is the clincher:
Luke 17[20] And when he was demanded of the Pharisees [religious scholars], when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not [to us] with observation:
[21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

If you stay within what I have outlined, the Lord will reveal it to you. Try not to allow preconceived thoughts to divert your attention of study.
Isaiah 55:8-9.

May God bless you in your "seeking" after Him (Hebrews 9:28),
Earburner

You know, I didn’t come to see the odd repeat I posted by the thoughts of other men. As I’ve said, I never heard a man talk about it. It doesn’t mean no other man has, just that I’ve never heard it. So I really am not reiterating the thoughts of someone else.

I liked, and could see, what you were saying in that post. But when talking about endtimes verses and prophecies, it doesn’t fully resolve them all in any manner. This is my normal state any more, that I can see what others are saying and can accept what part/parts match scripture or ring true but THEY cannot do it with what I see or share. But it doesn’t bother me. I just keep searching and pulling what I can see is true into my net and discarding what I don’t see as true. That’s just how I operate any more.

 

[MatthewG]

Really? You have entered into my discussion willingly, and now I must obey your thoughts.
It is apparent that the unseating of your own thoughts for His truth is not relished by your own self. Be patient. And let the Mind of Christ digest it within you.:)

Okay @Earburner. I have given ever evidence to prove the truth of the matter…

Jesus wasn’t playing around.
The apostles were not playing around with the hearts and minds with the people they wrote too…

However you claim I’m thinking like a man, nothing we have discussed has not been discussed already since the first century and after…

Thus whatever you are seeking me to do, by your own assertion is not doing anything but just negating the truth I’ve done shared.


Either Jesus lied and the apostles lied about the return, and we shouldn’t even read the Bible… there is no use hell Jesus lied… after all about his coming back and so did his apostles so there is no discussion.

Just talking wind and nothing being produced, that even matters, right my friend?

 

[MatthewG]

You’ll die one day, @Earburner,


I will too.

We will have our coming to God experience or Him coming to get us, in which hopefully all he sees is faith in his Son and having love for God and love for others my brother.

 

[MatthewG]

All the eschatological talks doesn’t mean anything unless proper execution is done…

Takes tons of times not minutes.