The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Bible Highlighter]

If only I desired to spend the energy on picking apart every one of your sentences with critical precision.

Look what you say here... Just look.

"If what you say is true about salvation by faith alone...then people can sin all they want and be saved without loving God! Therefore, these people are selfish!"

How did you jump to that conclusion? They can...so they will? Sounds like you believe people don't have the ability to be...good... Hmm. Who says these people want to sin? Are you projecting? Do you want to sin? Would you be sinning if you believed you could get away with it?

First, again, this is not my first discussion involving Free Grace Christians. I have been talking with them online since 2011 and not one of them believes in doing good at all times as Psalms 106:3 says. While many of them will say they believe in doing righteousness, they also believe in sinning on occasion because they have a sinful nature that they cannot escape from. Yet, this runs contrary to verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Galatians 5:24.

Second, if the penalty for speeding on the highway was removed and a person can just do whatever speed they like without any tickets from the police, or court problems, or without any danger of harming others, then more people would speed because there are no bad consequences to speeding (even if there was a speed limit sign). More people would speed if they knew no bad consequences would happen as a result of their speeding. They would think the speed limit law does not make any sense because there are no bad consequences to breaking such a law. It's the same with Free Gracers. While they may say they will not treat sin lightly, and they want to obey God, I know that it is human nature for them to just be lazy and do whatever they like or what is convenient for them. There is no real dire need to do good if it is merely optional and does not serve one's best interests. Jesus says to deny yourself and to pick up your cross and follow Him. Most Christians do not believe in doing that. It's all about being saved by a belief alone on Jesus and basking in their imaginary version grace.

 

[Charlie24]

Break it down for me, especially the “cease” part…

I already have, but your eyes are closed to it.

No where in scripture are we told we can cease from sin.

But you want to take a part of a verse and make it so.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“…I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again?” (John 9:27)

denial

Good day my friend. I am done playing kids games..

 

[BloodBought 1953]

"If what you say is true about salvation by faith alone...then people can sin all they want and be saved without loving God! Therefore, these people are selfish



I sin as much as I * WANT* to every single day! Here’s what you don’t get——Because I REST in the Gospel Of Grace, I have become a “ New Creation” with a “ New Heart”—— ———God has changed my “ WANTS !” ..... I could sin until my heart’s content ( Grace would Cover it and God’s Chastisement would work to make me abandon it) ——-I just don’t *WANT* to anymore....

 

[Behold]

Get this in your HEART:

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world” (Titus 2:11-12)

And the heretic then teaches this verse that says, that we SHOULD do that..........."SHOULD"....>...teaches that if you dont, then you go to hell when you die.
See that?
Thats the Heretic's misunderstanding of God's Grace, as the Heretic does not understand that GRACE is a GIFT, that does not requrire performance, to keep it, or to have it.

The heretic, only looks for verses in the bible that prove to them, that they can lose their salvation, as they have no other reason to use the bible then to try to find some verse they can misunderstand that way, and then try to use this verse, in a twisted way, to try to harm real believers.
All heretics (Dark Lights) do this to themselves, and to any Christian they can deceive.
Its their ministry.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

296

@Eternally Grateful said:

“I recomomend you set all your beliefs aside, and with an open heart read the word.”

I have been doing this for over 10 years.

I’m about to wrap up a complete Bible reading in 90-days.

How about you? How has your Bible reading been going lately?

 

[Charlie24]

First, again, this is not my first discussion involving Free Grace Christians. I have been talking with them online since 2011 and not one of them believes in doing good at all times as Psalms 106:3 says. While many of them will say they believe in doing righteousness, they also believe in sinning on occasion because they have a sinful nature that they cannot escape from. Yet, this runs contrary to verses like 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Galatians 5:24.

Second, if the penalty for speeding on the highway was removed and a person can just do whatever speed they like without any tickets from the police, or court problems, or without any danger of harming others, then more people would speed because there are no bad consequences to speeding (even if there was a speed limit sign). More people would speed if they knew no bad consequences would happen as a result of their speeding. They would think the speed limit law does not make any sense because there are no bad consequences to breaking such a law. It's the same with Free Gracers. While they may say they will not treat sin lightly, and they want to obey God, I know that it is human nature for them to just be lazy and do whatever they like or what is convenient for them. There is no real dire need to do good if it is merely optional and does not serve one's best interests. Jesus says to deny yourself and to pick up your cross and follow Him. Most Christians do not believe in doing that. It's all about being saved by a belief alone on Jesus and basking in their imaginary version grace.

BH, when you come to the knowledge of what Grace really is you will understand what we are saying.

"Doing righteousness" is being in Christ with your faith in tact! It's not what you think it is, by keeping this or that commandment, some even making a list of they are to do!

I have told you over and over again, by faith in Christ we are righteous, we are perfect in righteousness by faith through God's Grace.

Why can't you understand this! Why must you insist on destruction by the curse of Law?

 

[Behold]

296

@Eternally Grateful said:
I have been doing this for over 10 years.

You been teaching works in place of God's Grace for 10 yrs?
Well, God help you to change your theology in favor of "the Gift of Salvation", asap.
Why?
Because Legalism kills Faith dead.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

304

I could sin until my heart’s content ( Grace would Cover it and God’s Chastisement would work to make me abandon it) ——-I just don’t *WANT* to anymore....

I bolded the quoted text to address it.

You don’t want to, but you still do, correct?

If so, then the Spirit of God is not in you.

Because that’s what a man in the flesh does:

“For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.” (Romans 7:5)

“For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.” (Romans 7:19)

But a Christian is here:

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you” (Romans 8:9)

And a man in the Spirit does not sin, period:

“…Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (Galatians 5:16)

 

[WalkInLight]

If I say "we went to the market. I am including myself

If I say WE went to church. I am including myself

If I say if we need to get our finances together, I am including myself

there is NO situation that the word WE is used where it does not include myself

If I say, If we claim to have no sin, we deceive ourselves.

1. John is talking present tense
2. John includes himself

You can spin it until your blue in the face. you can post 1000 bible passages to try to twist Johns words.

The fact that John said we and did not include himself is unobtainable

spin away my friend..

Your just hurting yourself

There is an ironic twist here. A person can be without sin. But to state they are without sin is self worth, and liable to self deception, because it is saying God finds no offence in their life. It is to be noted sacrifices were continual given in the temple for the sin of the people, in generic form and not for specific sin.

John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit. It is not said what his status was as far as sin went, but he is deemed less worthy than anyone born again. So I conclude only the Lord can say someone is without sin, and then follows a deeper question, why would he? Ones cleanliness is not what the Kingdom is about, it is worship and service to the King that matters.

Cleansing and washing was a continual action and many things made the priests unclean, not just actions. To not take these issues into account was sinful, ie being unclean and entering the temple was not allowed.

What was consistent was the priests continually cleansed themselves and stayed purified. Paul follows a similar path, telling us to purify ourselves, to sow to the spirit and not to the flesh.

I would suggest that is what John is getting at, the walk matters, cleansing, dealing with issues as they arise and resolving them. King David blessed by God, but falls into sin with Bathsheba, repents and is forgiven. The bible is so big because it shows these relationships and struggles of men and women of God as examples of failure and how to resolve them. Sinless perfectionism is as bad as do nothing its all grace passivity. Each walk is unique, each intimate and close with Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

When I learn peoples families and experiences, their coping and deep wounds, I praise the Lord that He heals and helps people to stand and walk with Him. So many claim the heights of heaven yet fail at the next word spoken.

What the apostles were stunned by was the anointing by the Holy Spirit of the gentiles. What was unclean was made clean and acceptable. Washed clean is a theme throughout scripture, even praying for forgiveness for the sins of others and finding that forgiveness. It makes sense of sacrifices for Israel at the temple, but to protestant ears sounds very catholic.

God bless you

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You been teaching works in place of God's Grace for 10 yrs?

No, reading the Bible.

 

[Behold]

304

If so, then the Spirit of God is not in you.

You are a person who confesses sin, who is telling an honest believer that the Spirit of God is not in them because they were honest about their walk of faith.

Bad idea.

 

[Behold]

No, reading the Bible.

How long have you been on forums teaching Works and self effort in place of "the Gift of Salvation"??

10 Yrs?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is an ironic twist here. A person can be without sin. But to state they are without sin is self worth, and liable to self deception, because it is saying God finds no offence in their life. It is to be noted sacrifices were continual given in the temple for the sin of the people, in generic form and not for specific sin.

John the Baptist was born with the Holy Spirit. It is not said what his status was as far as sin went, but he is deemed less worthy than anyone born again. So I conclude only the Lord can say someone is without sin, and then follows a deeper question, why would he? Ones cleanliness is not what the Kingdom is about, it is worship and service to the King that matters.

Cleansing and washing was a continual action and many things made the priests unclean, not just actions. To not take these issues into account was sinful, ie being unclean and entering the temple was not allowed.

What was consistent was the priests continually cleansed themselves and stayed purified. Paul follows a similar path, telling us to purify ourselves, to sow to the spirit and not to the flesh.

I would suggest that is what John is getting at, the walk matters, cleansing, dealing with issues as they arise and resolving them. King David blessed by God, but falls into sin with Bathsheba, repents and is forgiven. The bible is so big because it shows these relationships and struggles of men and women of God as examples of failure and how to resolve them. Sinless perfectionism is as bad as do nothing its all grace passivity. Each walk is unique, each intimate and close with Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

When I learn peoples families and experiences, their coping and deep wounds, I praise the Lord that He heals and helps people to stand and walk with Him. So many claim the heights of heaven yet fail at the next word spoken.

What the apostles were stunned by was the anointing by the Holy Spirit of the gentiles. What was unclean was made clean and acceptable. Washed clean is a theme throughout scripture, even praying for forgiveness for the sins of others and finding that forgiveness. It makes sense of sacrifices for Israel at the temple, but to protestant ears sounds very catholic.

God bless you

I disagree a person can be without sin for a sustained period of time.. How many times in a day do we fail to love or serve self instead of others.

As for what John said, he wrote to a people who had people try to say they had no sin. this is where this comes from.

 

[Charlie24]

296

@Eternally Grateful said:


I have been doing this for over 10 years.

I’m about to wrap up a complete Bible reading in 90-days.

How about you? How has your Bible reading been going lately?

I have read the Bible from cover to cover over 20 times in my life so far.

I read the scripture and various commentary on that scripture as I go, to get broader view of what is being said.

It takes me between 1 1/2 to 2 years to study from cover to cover each time.

That is reading every night for a couple of hours.

A 90-day study of the entire scripture is not a thorough study of scripture that will give you gain in the Word of God.

That is skimming what someone else has said. The scripture is alive, it speaks to you, it builds on what you have previously learned, and continues to do so. It is inexhaustible.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

they have no other reason to use the bible then to try to find some verse they can misunderstand that way, and then try to use this verse, in a twisted way

I use the Bible frequently to be strong in the Spirit against sin. I accept the scriptures as written. I understand the complete SCOPE of the gospel that only mature Christians can handle. You’re just a babe that only wants its way no matter how much reasoning out of the scripture is done.

You guys twist this scripture the most:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)

I say, Amen!

You say, This cannot mean what it appears to say. I cannot loose my salvation no matter what.

Then the work of scripture twisting happens, or the best scripture twister is consulted.

 

[Behold]

[QUOTE="Michiah-Imla, post: 1379794, member: 9352"
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-29)
You say, This cannot mean what it appears to say. I cannot loose my salvation no matter what.[/QUOTE]

IVe seen you use the bible, and ive noted that you never talk about the Sacrifice of God on the Cross, but you are up and running to talk about your works.
Nothing new.

Also, if you were capable of scriptural exegesis, on a deep level, you would not be trying to condemn real believers with verses that are written to Christ Rejecting Jew, found in the book of Hebrews.

Let me tell you what ive discorved about heretics., FYI.
In all cases, they live in Hebrews, James, and Matthew, and The Revelation.
They do not follow Paul, but they pretend to know His Doctrine., and anyone who does, knows that Christ Rejecting HEBREWS (Jews) in Hebrews 6, 10, and Acts 28, are certainly not the body of Christ.
Michiah-Imla.... do not know this, as you keep proving in your posts, and will continue to prove in subsequent posts.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I read the scripture and various commentary on that scripture as I go, to get broader view of what is being said.

There’s the problem. You allow leaven to get into the word.

“Broader” view?

“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat” (Matthew 7:13)

A 90-day study of the entire scripture is not a thorough study of scripture that will give you gain in the Word of God.

This is not true.

You just need to read, meditate, and obey.

The Bible is simple. But man likes to exercise himself with complicated and new things. So he complicates the Bible and then “new” things emerge from there. Then one “new” truth begets another “new” truth and so on…

 

[Behold]

“Enter ye in at the strait gate:

The "Straight GATE" is Jesus Himself who told you He is the only WAY. John 14:6.

You would disagree and contend that your self effort is your straight gate., according to all the posts by you ive ever read.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

if you were capable of scriptural exegesis, on a deep level, you would not be trying to condemn real believers with verses that are written to Christ Rejecting Jew, found in the book of Hebrews.

The book of Hebrews is not written to Christ rejecting Jews. The writer is a Christ accepting saint and said:

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,” (Hebrews 10:26)

This should silence your rhetoric.

heretics., FYI.
In all cases, they live in Hebrews, James, and Matthew, and The Revelation.

I “live” in all 66 books.

And all 66 books don’t teach Once Saved Always Saved.