The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

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Bible Highlighter

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God will be merciless to those who reject his gospel.

Yes. This would be the gospel as written in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It is believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day. But there are other instructions of the faith that are given to us after we are saved by believing the gospel message.

Loving God and loving your neighbor are two big ones that we need to do as part of inheriting eternal life.

“And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

You said:
You better be worried about God. not what myself and anyone else says.

Right. Good advice. We should not be worried about what you say but we should be worried about what the Bible says. An honest and unbiased reading of the Bible will leave the reader to conclude that Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism is false. Here is a short list.

Works For Salvation Verses (After We are Saved By God’s Grace):

  1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).

  2. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

  3. 10 “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:10, and Titus 1:16).

  4. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

  6. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee ? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee ? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:34-46).

  8. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

  9. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

  10. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6).

  11. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14).

  13. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).

  14. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).

  15. “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
 

Eternally Grateful

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are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit are you now being perfected in the flesh. have you suffered so many things in vein if it was in vein

Paul called into questions some people salvation. as they were attempting to add works of the flesh to the gospel of grace.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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Faith is counted as righteousness.

Sins are forgiven, and then the person, the believer is born again., spiritually.

This BORN AGAIN SPIRIT< is the redeemed Son of God......not the body, or the mind.

Born again spiritually?

BORN AGAIN SPIRIT?

You see, you’re always adding to the word of God. This is heresy sir!

You continue to see red mirages in the scripture:

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again spiritually, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3)

“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again spiritually.” (John 3:7)

“Being born again spiritually, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.” (1 Peter 1:23)

You are not born again “spiritually”.

The spiritual becomes AVAILABLE to you by the new man created in true holiness (Ephesians 4:24). YOU MUST BE and STAY in the spirit (Romans 8:9) by your self-effort denying the old corrupt man and reckoning him dead (Romans 6:11).
 

Michiah-Imla

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are you so foolish, having begun in the spirit are you now being perfected in the flesh.

as they were attempting to add works of the flesh to the gospel of grace

Yes, these kind of works:

“Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” (Galatians 5:2)

“Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.” (Galatians 4:10)

Who on this thread is telling you to get circumcised and observe days, months, times, and years?
 
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Bible Highlighter

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BH, when you come to the knowledge of what Grace really is you will understand what we are saying.

"Doing righteousness" is being in Christ with your faith in tact! It's not what you think it is, by keeping this or that commandment, some even making a list of they are to do!

I have told you over and over again, by faith in Christ we are righteous, we are perfect in righteousness by faith through God's Grace.

Why can't you understand this! Why must you insist on destruction by the curse of Law?

Do you believe there was a book of the Law of Christ during the time of the writing of the letter written to the Galatians? I say this because Paul says this:

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” (Galatians 3:10).

What is the book of the Law referring to here?
Was there some kind of book that had all of Christ's teachings in it?
Or was this the Torah (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses)?
In other words, logic dictates that Paul was referring to the Mosaic Law and not the New Laws given to us by Jesus Christ. Nowhere. I repeat... Nowhere will you see Paul speak negatively in Ephesians, Galatians, Romans, etcetera on the Law or works in relation to the Laws of Christ or in following Jesus. Nowhere. The context was always the Mosaic Law because of the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism which had invaded the early church (Please see: Acts of the Apostles 15:1). Did you read it? If you have not read Acts of the Apostles 15:1, please do so now before reading further.

Anyways, when you realize this fact in Acts of the Apostles 15:1 and then read Paul's writings, you will be like.... “Ah, now I get it!” “That's why Paul kept bringing up circumcision all the time.” It will be your light bulb moment. Well, that is if you are not resistant to the truth of what the Bible says. I do have my doubts that you will deal honestly with the text in this way, but I know that with God... nothing is impossible.

Side Note:

Also, see post #346 for further biblical proof.

Side Note 2:

In fact, if Paul did speak negatively against obeying the words of Jesus or the doctrine according to godliness, he would have contradicted himself.

For 1 Timothy 6:3-4 says,
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,...”

For Jesus made it clear that He agreed with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See: Luke 10:25-28).
 
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Behold

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The spiritual becomes AVAILABLE to you by the new man created in true holiness (Ephesians 4:24). YOU MUST BE and STAY in the spirit (Romans .

You dont have to "stay in" a spirit that is born again.
Its already happened. Its not something you complete, as God has birthed this as a "new creation in Christ"

Notice you are born on earth?
You dont have to "stay in it", as you are already there..
So, if you are born again spiritually, then your born again spirit is born again. You dont keep this........you exist AS This.
Its Eternal, as its a Spiritual BIRTH< manifested by God.
You dont maintain that........as it has become you, as "the new creation in Christ".
This is Eternal Existence, of the born again Spirit. Its not temporary.
 

Michiah-Imla

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You mean, after attacking people who trust only in Jesus to get them to heaven, and reject "trying to be holy to get God to have you", the Mods tired of your behavior and let you move on?

You guys can attack Bible believers with impunity.

It takes a lot of patience to deal with folks like yourself.

You can vain talk to your Savior all you want (Matthew 15:9), but if you continue to sin despite the many warnings in scripture (John 5:14; John 8:11) you may hear this when you face the one you have trodden on (Hebrews 10:29)!

“…depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:23)

I pray this doesn’t end up being the case with you.

Change course if you still sin.
 

Charlie24

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There’s the problem. You allow leaven to get into the word.

“Broader” view?

“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat” (Matthew 7:13)




This is not true.

You just need to read, meditate, and obey.

The Bible is simple. But man likes to exercise himself with complicated and new things. So he complicates the Bible and then “new” things emerge from there. Then one “new” truth begets another “new” truth and so on…

No, the scripture is not simple.
Do you believe there was a book of the Law of Christ during the time of the writing of the letter written to the Galatians? I say this because Paul says this:

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.” (Galatians 3:10).

What is the book of the Law referring to here?
Was there some kind of book that had all of Christ's teachings in it?
Or was this the Torah (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses)?
In other words, logic dictates that Paul was referring to the Mosaic Law and not the New Laws given to us by Jesus Christ. Nowhere. I repeat... Nowhere will you see Paul speak negatively in Ephesians, Galatians, Romans, etcetera on the Law or works in relation to the Laws of Christ or in following Jesus. Nowhere. The context was always the Mosaic Law because of the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism which had invaded the early church (Please see: Acts of the Apostles 15:1). Did you read it? If you have not read Acts of the Apostles 15:1, please do so now before reading further.

Anyways, when you realize this fact in Acts of the Apostles 15:1 and then read Paul's writings, you will be like.... “Ah, now I get it!” “That's why Paul kept bringing up circumcision all the time.” It will be your light bulb moment. Well, that is if you are not resistant to the truth of what the Bible says. I do have my doubts that you will deal honestly with the text in this way, but I know that with God... nothing is impossible.

Side Note:

Also, see post #346 for further biblical proof.

I have a serious problem with that, BH.

Whether you are following the Law of Moses, Christ Commandments, or a Law you have made yourself, that is Law.

You have made something a requirement for salvation, no matter where it comes from, you are living under that requirement/Law.

And you will be judged by that Law you are living by. There will be no Grace if are living under Law.

This is what I have been telling you about Grace! Grace is apart from Law of any kind. Your faith is what keeps you in Grace, there is no curse that can touch you. But if you make your way of living according to any kind of Law you are bound by that Law, and if you don't keep that Law, failing just one time, there comes the curse, you are condemned because you could not keep the Laws you set for yourself.
 

Michiah-Imla

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No, the scripture is not simple.

“All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.” (Proverbs 8:8-10)

Put away the silver and gold (the study helps and commentaries).
 

Behold

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You guys can attack Bible believers with impunity.
It takes a lot of patience to deal with folks like yourself.

You believe that God started your salvation, and now its up to you to complete it by self effort.
Trust the New Testament, that isn't what it teaches.
But it it what you teach.

See, you dont believe that Jesus KEEPS You saved, unless you provide the reason.
And that, is not Faith in Christ.
Believe it.
 

Behold

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“…depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:23)

I pray this doesn’t end up being the case with you.

I give all Credit due Christ alone for Salvation, in all my Posts, and in over 200 Threads.... and you feel this is to be a "worker of iniquity."
That's very interesting.
Id say, you should take a look at your verse, repent, and pray for yourself.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Barely 2 years.

This is the second forum.

The first one is where I “met” @Eternally Grateful and @mailmandan

I was banned from there after about 1,500 posts. The Once Saved Always Saved gang are merciless…

If you are talking about ChristianChat. I was also banned from there because of my fight against OSAS.
I talked to the admin of the site, and told him about what happened but he did not do anything about it.

After I posted at ChristianChat for a while, I posted on ChristianForums.com for a long while (39,860 posts). But when they banned any kind of KJB Only discussion because of my passionate defense for it, I decided to move on to greener pastures. For at CF, you also had to be extra careful about what you say. You cannot simply just speak your mind or you will rack up points quick, and get banned there. But I am grateful for having been there. It taught me self control in being more loving with my words. I remember mailmandan from both ChristianChat and ChristianForums.com. Before ChristianChat, I was on TheologyOnline.com. I left there because at the time, the insults and spiritual darkness there was exceptionally high and God was telling me to move on. I ran into Hyper Grace folks there and they were not nice (By any means).

I have been talking on Christian forums since 2011 approximately.
It did not take me long to figure out that OSAS was false in my study of God's Word.
 

Michiah-Imla

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You believe that God started your salvation, and now its up to you to complete it by self effort.

Well isn’t it up to me to continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:22)?

Isn’t it up to us to continue in the faith grounded and settled (Colossians 1:23)?

Isn’t it up to us to not obey the lusts of the flesh (Romans 6:12)?

But Of course you’ll just say, But that doesn’t affect our salvation blah blah blah
 

Behold

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Well isn’t it up to me to continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:22)?

Its God's Goodness, not your goodness.
Do you not understand the difference between God as Christ on the Cross, providing His Goodness as The GIFT of SALVATION< vs, your idea of trying to be good, hoping God will have you?

Its GOD's GOODNESS....and to remain in that, is to be born again., as this is the end result of posessing Salvation.
 

Behold

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Isn’t it up to us to not obey the lusts of the flesh (Romans 6:12)?

That is not related to "God's Goodness".
That is related to Discipleship, which is your "presenting your body a living sacrifice", because Jesus has presented GOD's GOODNESS, to you, so that God will have you.

See it yet?

Listen.
You dont present your idea of goodness to Holy God, to get God to accept you or keep you.

But rather GOD had presented HIS GOODNESS to you, who is JESUS the Sacrifice.
You exist in THAT, as that is God's Goodness, which is "the Gift of Salvation"
 

Bible Highlighter

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Its God's Goodness, not your goodness.
Do you not understand the difference between God as Christ on the Cross, providing His Goodness as The GIFT of SALVATION< vs, your idea of trying to be good, hoping God will have you?

Its GOD's GOODNESS....and to remain in that, is to be born again., as this is the end result of posessing Salvation.

Your right. It is God's goodness. We are saved by God's grace in our Initial Salvation, and God does the good works through us. But we have to cooperate with God. God does not force us to be saved, and neither does He force us to remain saved. We do have free will. There are many warnings about how sin can destroy our souls and that we must be fruitful or we will not enter the Kingdom of God. There are warnings on how we must live holy or we will not see God. But of course, the Free Grace Christians ignore all these warnings. But one day they will see them because Jesus will show these verses that they rejected to them.
 
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Behold

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Your right. It is God's goodness. We are saved by God's grace in our Initial Salvation, .

There is no such thing as "the gift of initial salvation".
There is no such thing as "the gift of initial eternal life"
There is no such thing as "initiially born again".

There is LOST or SAVED.
Born again, or not.

Salvation is not temporary, and its not related to your BEHAVIOR.

God's acceptance of us, is only based on what Christ has "FINISHED" on the Cross.
That is our Salvation, it was FINISHED, 2000 yrs ago, and it is Appiled to you if you believe.