The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

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Behold

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The book of Hebrews is not written to Christ rejecting Jews.

Try again.
Read more carefully.

As i didnt say that Hebrews is FOR Christ rejecting Jews.
I said that Hebrews Chapters 6, 19, and ACTS 28, are written to Christ Rejecting HEBREWS.
See that?
No you dont, as if you did, you woudl not be misapplying those verses to the body of Christ...yet, here you are doing it, and will again.
 

Behold

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And all 66 books don’t teach Once Saved Always Saved.

The Cult of People who are obsessed with OSAS, are the minority of Legalists, who teach, as you do, self saving.
"Self Saving" is the theology that teaches that you earn your way into heaven, by being "holy" = behavior is holiness.
See that?
That's Legalism, as no person has any Holiness, unless they RECEIVE IT FROM GOD< and that GIFT, is eternal Life.
 

Michiah-Imla

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@Behold

If you sin wilfully after being sanctified by the blood of Christ, you’re out of luck. You have trampled on Jesus.

That is what Hebrews 10:26-29 is telling you.

You should listen to the scripture.
 

Behold

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@Behold


That is what Hebrews 10:26-29 is telling you.

You should listen to the scripture.

You've sinned willfully many times since you were saved, unless you want to pretend that all the sins you comminted were accidents.
And in that case, you just lied willfully.
Want to try that one today, Michiah-Imla ??

And..
You should read Acts 28 and find Paul talking again to the same Christ rejecting Jews, (Hebrews) ... found in Hebrews 10:26.
I have.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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Self Saving" is the theology that teaches that you earn your way into heaven, by being "holy" = behavior is holiness.
See that?
That's Legalism

No.

The Bible teaches that the sinner comes with faith alone. And then becomes holy by the removal of his sins. But if he sins willfully afterwards there isn’t another Christ coming to die on the cross for him again. He will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Call it “LEGALISM”, call it what you want, but it’s BIBLICAL!
 

WalkInLight

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I disagree a person can be without sin for a sustained period of time.. How many times in a day do we fail to love or serve self instead of others.

As for what John said, he wrote to a people who had people try to say they had no sin. this is where this comes from.

I take from your statement your idea of sin is that it is part of us being human.
If Jesus was human, in the fullest sense, fully a male with all the hormones and desires we all have, how was He without sin?
If we are called to walk like Jesus, to be transformed in our walk to be light to the world, is this not implicit that Jesus can transform us to this state?

I am not saying I have arrived or anyone has achieved this, because that only Jesus and the Father could say, but that is our goal.

If one says this goal is not possible, then it is no longer a goal. The logical problem with this is what I have often seen is people say I am a sinner seen by the Father as perfect no matter how I behave because of Jesus. It is why I dislike this language because it expresses the wrong nature of love and care. It is similar that a follower of Christ cannot sin against another to prove a point, because that is a denial of their walk in Christ.

Judas was known to Jesus as the betrayer, yet he loved him and dealt with him until the end like all the apostles. Why? Because love proves itself to the heart of a follower of Jesus and nothing else matters.

God bless you
 

Michiah-Imla

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You've sinned willfully many times since you were saved

Not true.

But what’s that got to do with the truth of the scriptures as I laid them out?

I’m not going to deny the scriptures just because I don’t think that YOU could live up to them…
 

Eternally Grateful

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Barely 2 years.

This is the second forum.

The first one is where I “met” @Eternally Grateful and @mailmandan

I was banned from there after about 1,500 posts. The Once Saved Always Saved gang are merciless…
yeah, those of us who believe eternal life is eternal. That he who began a good work WILL complete it. That when God said we will never die God means it. When God said we have the spirit of the seal as a guarantee or pledge. he meant it

To all legalists. we are merciless

God will be merciless to those who reject his gospel. You better be worried about God. not what myself and anyone else says.
 

Bible Highlighter

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The "Straight GATE" is Jesus Himself who told you He is the only WAY. John 14:6.

You would disagree and contend that your self effort is your straight gate., according to all the posts by you ive ever read.

Matthew 7:14
“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

Let's look at the context of the straight gate.

Matthew 7:22-23
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

So as we can see above here, there were certain believers who did wonderful works in Jesus' name but because they also worked iniquity (sin), they were told by the Lord Jesus to depart from Him.

Further context makes it clear that this is in reference to obeying Jesus and not just believing on some kind of imaginary Protestant saying that says to believe on the finished work of the cross.

Matthew 7:26-27
“And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”

So as we can see in this above passage that everyone who does not hear (obey) the sayings (teachings or instructions) of Jesus, they are compared to a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came great was the fall of that house (i.e. Meaning they will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire).
 
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WalkInLight

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Barely 2 years.

This is the second forum.

The first one is where I “met” @Eternally Grateful and @mailmandan

I was banned from there after about 1,500 posts. The Once Saved Always Saved gang are merciless…

The group you are referring to are emotionally provoked and skilled at provoking others.
What I have discovered is the polar arguments become repetitive and never end.
Words only have their meaning because of their interpreted context. So different contexts change the meaning of simple phrases.

In the end all one can do is described ones own framework and leave it there.
It is possible though to grow to see reality more than just ones own experience and to love people despite the trap of their own thinking.

I had a discussion with one of my children. They were being very provocative and simplistic and I was obviously a horrible individual. When I pushed back and asserted I was hurt by such an accusation, I was verbally attacked and dumped.

It took me a while to work out the ideas were just how they found security, and as a consequence I was a terrible person who held certain positions which I did not. When I pushed back, they emotionally panicked and had a panic attack. Seeing it emotionally as security and simplifying life, made me understand my response had triggered something they were trying to avoid, and the beliefs were actually just words.

So certain warriors do what they do because of their past and emotional history. Others positions do not matter to them, their version is the correct answer, and so the aim is to destroy the other party, not lead them into the light.

There is always hope for people, the door is always open, Praise the Lord

God bless you
 
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WalkInLight

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I am sorry, But that would be an incorrect assessment of what I think

Bless you
How would you describe the cause of sin in man?
And how would you say we are going to be perfect with Christ on the new earth?

I ask simply because how these questions are answered hang salvation, free will, communion with the Lord, the hope for fellowship among believers, why God answers prayer, how we are called righteous and the Lord listens to us.

So it is not unimportant, though often this is too deep for many, so I understand if this is too difficult for you.

God bless you
 

Behold

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No.

The Bible teaches that the sinner comes with faith alone. And then becomes holy by the removal of his sins.

Faith is counted as righteousness.

Sins are forgiven, and then the person, the believer is born again., spiritually.

This BORN AGAIN SPIRIT< is the redeemed Son of God......not the body, or the mind.
 

WalkInLight

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yeah, those of us who believe eternal life is eternal. That he who began a good work WILL complete it. That when God said we will never die God means it. When God said we have the spirit of the seal as a guarantee or pledge. he meant it

To all legalists. we are merciless

God will be merciless to those who reject his gospel. You better be worried about God. not what myself and anyone else says.

"To all legalists. we are merciless"

One of the traits of Jesus is mercy.

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Matt 5:7

Jesus describes the parable of the merciful ruler who forgives a servant all their debt, while the servant goes off and throws another servant in prison because of a lesser debt.

The warning is clear. Learn to love your enemies and show mercy or one will find the Lord of all will not show mercy to you.
Jesus went even further,

This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart
Matt 18:35

Legalists are a sad bunch who end up condemning themselves to hell because as they judge others they too will be judged.
And the group they belong to are all accepting of everyone until they find one has fallen short, and its dump them.

A sad future for them as one by one they fall away, condemned and rejected not knowing why or how this came about.

God bless you
 
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Bible Highlighter

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yeah, those of us who believe eternal life is eternal.

Jesus Christ alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). So in order to have immortality or eternal life, you have to abide in Jesus Christ. The way you know Christ is abiding in you is if you find you are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). For the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). For he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

You said:
That he who began a good work WILL complete it.

I believe this promise applies only to the faithful believer who does not justify sin and he has crucified the affections and lusts. For one cannot do a good work if they justify sin on some level by saying they must sin again because they are a slave to their sin nature. This also is not God forcing you to do good works, either. Titus 3:8 says be careful to maintain good works. That would not be possible if it was just all automatic and God just forces you to do them against your free will. For do you wake up one morning and helped the poor and preached the gospel like crazy one day and then at the end of the day you wondered how that was even possible (as if somebody took over your body outside of your control)? Doing good, and or living holy is synergistic. It's not all our effort, and neither is it all God's effort making us to surrender to the Lord so as to allow Him to do the good work through us.

That when God said we will never die God means it.

Well, when you read verses like John 11:26 that says that to believe in Jesus is to never die, you also have to read and believe verses like John 8:51, too. For John 8:51 says: “Truly, truly, I tell you, if anyone keeps My word, he will never see death.” So it's not only believing in Jesus to not see death, but it is also in keeping His Word, as well.

You said:
When God said we have the spirit of the seal as a guarantee or pledge. he meant it

What is the condition of having the seal of God?

Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

“Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.” (John 6:27).

Jesus' meat was to do the will of the Father, and to finish his work (John 4:34).

The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

In fact, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 51:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).

Source:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30


You said:
To all legalists. we are merciless

Ephesians 4:32 CEV
“Instead, be kind and merciful, and forgive others, just as God forgave you because of Christ.”
 
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